Automotive News, Media & Press - Road and Track ZL1 vs GT500

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2013-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-vs.-2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1

IMO the best review yet.

Yup, the zl1 is still a pig that needs some extra go. Nice car, but they left so much on the table

pretty much the same thing other testers have concluded.


while a zl1 is less expensive a gt500 with more power justifies its cost.

Great read. :nod:

My problem with this review is that they kept repeating "muscle cars aren't sport cars" Well with this much money you're paying you better damn sure do get a sports car, which they both are.

But their mentality is absolutely incorrect that these cars DON'T NEED to handle... It's a shame really.

My problem with this review is that they kept repeating "muscle cars aren't sport cars" Well with this much money you're paying you better damn sure do get a sports car, which they both are.

But their mentality is absolutely incorrect that these cars DON'T NEED to handle... It's a shame really.

Not to be rude but what are you talking about? They mention that muscle cars aren't sports cars once and technically there right. Also at what point did they emphasize that these cars "don't need to handle"? I agree with you that for the money you should get a complete package and you do with either car. :cheers:

My problem with this review is that they kept repeating "muscle cars aren't sport cars" Well with this much money you're paying you better damn sure do get a sports car, which they both are.

They are not sports cars. Sports cars have 2 seats and independent suspension. These are muscle cars/coupes or GT's.
"Sport car" or "muscle car" is simply the chassis setup, that doesn't mean a muscle car can't out perform a sports car.

:nod:

i believe pony cars is the correct description.

Pony cars is right 2 plus 2 seating is the main reason

So they take the cars to the track, but the lap times have no calculation in the points total? Seems unfair to the ZL1.

Am i the only one that sees a pulley, bolt on, zl1 destroying the gt500 at EVERYTHING. I mean who goes to the track and keeps things stock... Sure the gt500 guy could upgrade too, but arguably it would be much more expensive and albeit impossible to make it handle better then the zl1 especially once aftermarket comes put for the zl1.



Both great cars, but at the end of the day, the gt500 is still a mustang.. And camaro still a camaro.

Am i the only one that sees a pulley, bolt on, zl1 destroying the gt500 at EVERYTHING. I mean who goes to the track and keeps things stock... Sure the gt500 guy could upgrade too, but arguably it would be much more expensive and albeit impossible to make it handle better then the zl1 especially once aftermarket comes put for the zl1.

Pardon?

So they take the cars to the track, but the lap times have no calculation in the points total? Seems unfair to the ZL1.

Par for the course IMO. Most of the other comparison articles thus far have ignored all the performance metrics in favor of picking the Camaro over the GT500. The fact that they did so here as well shouldn't surprise anyone.

Am i the only one that sees a pulley, bolt on, zl1 destroying the gt500 at EVERYTHING. I mean who goes to the track and keeps things stock... Sure the gt500 guy could upgrade too, but arguably it would be much more expensive and albeit impossible to make it handle better then the zl1 especially once aftermarket comes put for the zl1.


The Shelby is only a tire change away from being right on par with the ZL1 at the track if you ask me. "285's are the biggest tire that will fit in the back of the GT500"...........my ass. I've had 305's on the back of my 05 GT once at the track, and not only did they fit...but they looked like they belonged on the car. You don't push 600+hp out through rear tires that damn small. The hell is wrong with them Ford engineers???

^^^^ Tire change on the shelby....lol Just think about a good set of r-compound tire on the ZL1.....that thing would be insane.

Wow the camaro looked so much more composed on the road course. You can tell from watching the vid it responds to the driver very well. I wish it had a bit more power.

Am i the only one that sees a pulley, bolt on, zl1 destroying the gt500 at EVERYTHING. I mean who goes to the track and keeps things stock... Sure the gt500 guy could upgrade too, but arguably it would be much more expensive and albeit impossible to make it handle better then the zl1 especially once aftermarket comes put for the zl1.



Both great cars, but at the end of the day, the gt500 is still a mustang.. And camaro still a camaro.

I don't know, if it were me I would take the base gt500 and mod away. 1500 under the hood nets more than 700whp and 4k-5k in suspension gets you a fully adjustable suspension with coilovers, torque arm and a watts link. A bolt on ZL1 would not come close to it...anywhere.

I don't know, if it were me I would take the base gt500 and mod away. 1500 under the hood nets more than 700whp and 4k-5k in suspension gets you a fully adjustable suspension with coilovers, torque arm and a watts link. A bolt on ZL1 would not come close to it...anywhere.

It might take a ZR1 blower. But mod for mod the ZL1 is gonna come out on top. Didn't you see how much more composed the ZL was over the GT500? That's more than shocks and springs are gonna get you. That is torsional rigidity at work.

Probably one of the best comparisons I have seen. Very un biased, and seems to be tested with both very good drivers in every aspect.

It might take a ZR1 blower. But mod for mod the ZL1 is gonna come out on top. Didn't you see how much more composed the ZL was over the GT500? That's more than shocks and springs are gonna get you. That is torsional rigidity at work.

Please explain.

It might take a ZR1 blower. But mod for mod the ZL1 is gonna come out on top. Didn't you see how much more composed the ZL was over the GT500? That's more than shocks and springs are gonna get you. That is torsional rigidity at work.

Please explain.

explains x2, how can a 480rwhp car can be on top of another mod for mod when the other is 600rwhp stock??

That is torsional rigidity at work.

Wrong. That's rear end GRIP at work. The Shelby's less optimal front to rear weight distribution ratio is made all the worse by not having enough rubber under the back end...all the while trying to plant nearly 100 more horses to the ground. This is one place where the ZL1's weight actually works in its favor. More weight over the backend = more composure in the corners. Then you throw in the magnetic suspension on top of that and this is what you get. The Shelby...once again...just isn't able to use as much of its power as the ZL1 can on the track. Has little to do with how rigid the chassis of either car is. I assure you both chassis are more than up to the task.

I mean who goes to the track and keeps things stock...Actually, lots of people do. :)

Please explain.

explains x2, how can a 480rwhp car can be on top of another mod for mod when the other is 600rwhp stock??
The gt500 is on 15lb of boost. It's not gonna take much more and it's gonna need a alternative gas, the ZL has plenty of room to grow in the boost department. And it will make more power on the same amount of boost. When serious mods start to happen it's all Zl then. 400+ cubes and boost, The gt500 can't get there.
Wrong. That's rear end GRIP at work. The Shelby's less optimal front to rear weight distribution ratio is made all the worse by not having enough rubber under the back end...all the while trying to plant nearly 100 more horses to the ground. This is one place where the ZL1's weight actually works in its favor. More weight over the backend = more composure in the corners. Then you throw in the magnetic suspension on top of that and this is what you get. The Shelby...once again...just isn't able to use as much of its power as the ZL1 can on the track. Has little to do with how rigid the chassis of either car is. I assure you both chassis are more than up to the task.
You guessed part of it.

You can tell by watching the cars that the Shelby is much less predictable. In a couple of spots in the vid is was pushing like a dump truck right into a snap loose situation. That's the chassis giving up. Tires could mask it for a while. But more than likely it would aggravate it once wear started.

There will be GT500s in the 9s no problem with the stock blower. The shortblock can take over 1,000rwhp. LSA can't do that. And we all know how much you value abilities using stock parts.

There are pick-up truck ls shortblocks running around with 800+ whp on pump. What makes you think the lsa won't do it? How do you know that 5.8 is good for 1000hp? Do you have one? 03-04 termi's was suppose to be good for alot of power. I have one that blew up @ 458.

There will be GT500s in the 9s no problem with the stock blower.There already are. :nod:
Although the very first one to do it (Evolution Performance) has since blown their stock 2013 GT500's engine up after they hit 9.6.
Still damn impressive though.






There are pick-up truck ls shortblocks running around with 800+ whp on pump. What makes you think the lsa won't do it? How do you know that 5.8 is good for 1000hp? Do you have one?Point taken. :nod:

There are pick-up truck ls shortblocks running around with 800+ whp on pump. What makes you think the lsa won't do it? How do you know that 5.8 is good for 1000hp? Do you have one? 03-04 termi's was suppose to be good for alot of power. I have one that blew up @ 458.

And there are '03-'04 Cobras with 800rwhp that are regularly driven. The 5.8 is a bigger 5.4, so there is no reason to believe that they won't at least handle as much power. Are you arguing that the cast LSA is stronger than the forged 5.8?

The gt500 is on 15lb of boost. It's not gonna take much more and it's gonna need a alternative gas, the ZL has plenty of room to grow in the boost department. And it will make more power on the same amount of boost. When serious mods start to happen it's all Zl then. 400+ cubes and boost, The gt500 can't get there.

What planet are you from?

I think this was a more fair review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FF-db7bX9LI

And there are '03-'04 Cobras with 800rwhp that are regularly driven. The 5.8 is a bigger 5.4, so there is no reason to believe that they won't at least handle as much power. Are you arguing that the cast LSA is stronger than the forged 5.8?
I'm arguing that the ls platform is stronger.You keep wanting to say how stout the ford is. I have a broken ford on my carport that made 458rwhp. When I got to looking it's not the only termi motor that has blown up with pretty mild mods.....in fact there is alot of them that has. Now we have a broken ford at a 9.6......well guess what sweety? It don't take 1000hp to run a 9.6.
What planet are you from?

Earth.....and the land of common sense.

The gt500 is on 15lb of boost. It's not gonna take much more and it's gonna need a alternative gas, the ZL has plenty of room to grow in the boost department. And it will make more power on the same amount of boost. When serious mods start to happen it's all Zl then. 400+ cubes and boost, The gt500 can't get there.

You guessed part of it.

You can tell by watching the cars that the Shelby is much less predictable. In a couple of spots in the vid is was pushing like a dump truck right into a snap loose situation. That's the chassis giving up. Tires could mask it for a while. But more than likely it would aggravate it once wear started.

So wrong, read up on the Shelby powerplant. LSA is not new, it is in the 2012 CTS-V. The Shelby 5.8 is a more free breathing variant of the 2012 5.4 GT500. In 2012, the forged 5.4 > LSA, stock for stock, mod for mod. How do you think the forged 5.8 will compare?

There will be GT500s in the 9s no problem with the stock blower. The shortblock can take over 1,000rwhp. LSA can't do that. And we all know how much you value abilities using stock parts.
To my knowledge nobody has taken the 5.8 to a 1000whp yet and I know it's the same as the 5.4 but it's also running thinner cylinder walls. Ford is hoping their new coating will keep it from blowing apart and they better hope it does because a forged bottom end doesn't mean crap if the block splits and Chevy has already proved you don't need forged anything to run alot of power.
There already are. :nod:
Although the very first one to do it (Evolution Performance) has since blown their stock 2013 GT500's engine up after they hit 9.6.
Still damn impressive though.
Please post a link because that would make them the fastest so far but I guess they don't want to brag since they blew the motor up going for it huh?

So wrong, read up on the Shelby powerplant. LSA is not new, it is in the 2012 CTS-V. The Shelby 5.8 is a more free breathing variant of the 2012 5.4 GT500. In 2012, the forged 5.4 > LSA, stock for stock, mod for mod. How do you think the forged 5.8 will compare?

I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.

Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.

The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.

And there are '03-'04 Cobras with 800rwhp that are regularly driven. The 5.8 is a bigger 5.4, so there is no reason to believe that they won't at least handle as much power. Are you arguing that the cast LSA is stronger than the forged 5.8?

Don't bother, he's just going to keep throwing the "I haven't seen it with my own two eyes" flag, along with pointing out more Terminators that "he's seen" blow up with under 500whp, then he's going to argue the 4.6 is basically the same as the 5.4, and then he's going to point out how many hundreds of stock truck blocks are making over 1000whp, etc, etc....you can't win arguing with nutswinging idiots.

I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.

Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.

The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Don't bother, he's just going to keep throwing the "I haven't seen it with my own two eyes" flag, along with pointing out more Terminators that "he's seen" blow up with under 500whp, then he's going to argue the 4.6 is basically the same as the 5.4, and then he's going to point out how many hundreds of stock truck blocks are making over 1000whp, etc, etc....you can't win arguing with nutswinging idiots.

Yep.....and you can believe everything he says if you want and ride his:sack:. Why don't you go and make yourself busy swapping a mod motor in your vette? They're awesome and you need one.

remember Irunelevens has never touched the 13's.

You guessed part of it.

You can tell by watching the cars that the Shelby is much less predictable. In a couple of spots in the vid is was pushing like a dump truck right into a snap loose situation. That's the chassis giving up. Tires could mask it for a while. But more than likely it would aggravate it once wear started.

So you're saying the Shelby's chassis is......flabby???

Yep.....and you can believe everything he says if you want and ride his:sack:. Why don't you go and make yourself busy swapping a mod motor in your vette? They're awesome and you need one.

remember Irunelevens has never touched the 13's.



http://benisawesome.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/facepalmzzzp11.gif

So you're saying the Shelby's chassis is......flabby???

I don't think it is flabby. But definitely not what the ZL1's is.

The gt500 is on 15lb of boost. It's not gonna take much more and it's gonna need a alternative gas, the ZL has plenty of room to grow in the boost department. And it will make more power on the same amount of boost. When serious mods start to happen it's all Zl then. 400+ cubes and boost, The gt500 can't get there.

.

To get a ZL1 over 700whp, you need every bolt on, all of the cooling, fuel as well as heads and cam. That is like 12-14k in parts.
A 2013 gt500 needs a pulley, intake, Throttlebody and headers to be over 700whp, and that is in 100 deg weather. Notice it is still only on 15.x lbs of boost so you could run an overdrive lower if you really what to spin it hard.

http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16819

Also, the griggs suspension also VASTLY increases rear end grip with the torque arm.

Yep.....and you can believe everything he says if you want and ride his:sack:. Why don't you go and make yourself busy swapping a mod motor in your vette? They're awesome and you need one.

remember Irunelevens has never touched the 13's.

:bomb:

You can tell by watching the cars that the Shelby is much less predictable. In a couple of spots in the vid is was pushing like a dump truck right into a snap loose situation. That's the chassis giving up. Tires could mask it for a while. But more than likely it would aggravate it once wear started.
Not defending the GT500 but theres far too much going on to simply say the "chassis is giving up". Suspension geometry, wheel rates (spring rates, shock rates, bumpstop rates, swaybar rates, bushing rates etc.), then factor in the solid axle and how that behaves with the given suspension. Far too many variables to point at one. They likely made the rear suspension a little too stiff.
For example simply changing out the stock shocks for some Konis on a 4th gen fbody take the car from handling like an S10 pickup to handling like a composed, predictable sports car.

Not defending the GT500 but theres far too much going on to simply say the "chassis is giving up". Suspension geometry, wheel rates (spring rates, shock rates, bumpstop rates, swaybar rates, bushing rates etc.), then factor in the solid axle and how that behaves with the given suspension. Far too many variables to point at one. They likely made the rear suspension a little too stiff.
For example simply changing out the stock shocks for some Konis on a 4th gen fbody take the car from handling like an S10 pickup to handling like a composed, predictable sports car.

You gotta remember the main chassis of GT500 started out at about a $20-25k car with a v6. Now it's working on going to $65k. I would hope what they give you something that is up to par.

Definitely not a good comparison on your part on the 4th gen, a car designed in the early 90's I would expect to need some help. Especially with a $15k starting price.

The facts are this, Ford put a monster motor in their car. GM put a good motor in their with a great chassis(could be better if lighter but we all know this, it is what it is). I can make up that 80hp easier than you can the Mustang to handle with the Camaro.

You gotta remember the main chassis of GT500 started out at about a $20-25k car with a v6. Now it's working on going to $65k. I would hope what they give you something that is up to par.

Thats arguably wrong, the Mustang, just like any other performance car out there was built ground up for their performance trim (in this case the Coyotee V8, in the Camaro's case an LS3, 4th gens case the LS1 etc etc). Then striped down for their "base" model. They didn't make a V6 then decide to throw a V8 in it later, if anything its the other way around.


Definitely not a good comparison on your part on the 4th gen, a car designed in the early 90's I would expect to need some help. Especially with a $15k starting price.

The comparison has to do with totally changing the way the car handles with something as simple as shocks (and often with out cars mistaken for a chassis issue).
Ford may have comprised with some of the suspension resulting in what you see in the vid (just like GM really compromised with the Fbodies decarbon shocks).

There is a bit more to that car than needing shocks. Could something else help it?? maybe. But it may be at the sacrifice of ride. I'm sure ford did what they could with what they had in that department, but it's never gonna be a IRS car. I've watched all the vids I could find on tests of these 2 cars. There is also some in car of them, the Camaro is just much smoother handling car that ready for a set of r-compound tires to let her really rip. It looks just that composed on track, the Ford doesn't. But it does a hell of a job making up for it on the straights. If the 2 were matched in power it would exploit the Mustang chassis to the point that you would say what a pos.

Thats arguably wrong, the Mustang, just like any other performance car out there was built ground up for their performance trim (in this case the Coyotee V8, in the Camaro's case an LS3, 4th gens case the LS1 etc etc). Then striped down for their "base" model. They didn't make a V6 then decide to throw a V8 in it later, if anything its the other way around.



What's funny is that not only was he wrong on that, he failed to mention that the Camaro started its life as a 4-door sedan.

I'm sure they were both designed with a v8 in mind. But there is no doubt that with the starting price there are also compromises made to get them in the target price range. Do you think ford don't make money on a v6 car?

Ps....how's that mod motor vette swap goin?

I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.

Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.

The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.

The 5.8 isn't related to the 5.0 any more than the 4.6 is. Which is hardly at all. And 5.4 GT500s have gone deep 11s with just DRs. It does not matter one bit whether or not you've seen it.

What's funny is that not only was he wrong on that, he failed to mention that the Camaro started its life as a 4-door sedan.

Yes but some could also argue that the mustang chassis also stems from a sedan platform.

"Considered a new platform by Ford Motor Company, D2C is loosely based on the Ford DEW platform which served as the basis for the Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type."

At the end of the day regardless of where the cars started nothing matters but how it finishes and Chevy has provin it's chassis and suspension to be top dawg as ford has done the same in the motor department stock vs stock that is.

The 5.8 isn't related to the 5.0 any more than the 4.6 is. Which is hardly at all. And 5.4 GT500s have gone deep 11s with just DRs. It does not matter one bit whether or not you've seen it.

Your right, nothing matters except what you write on the internet. I should not believe my own eyes.:gtfo:

The 5.8 isn't related to the 5.0 any more than the 4.6 is. Which is hardly at all. And 5.4 GT500s have gone deep 11s with just DRs. It does not matter one bit whether or not you've seen it.

I told you, but you wouldn't listen...


Don't bother, he's just going to keep throwing the "I haven't seen it with my own two eyes" flag

Your right, nothing matters except what you write on the internet. I should not believe my own eyes.:gtfo:

Same thing he says every time he gets backed into a corner. His two eyes are what makes things exist; you and I are just make believe until we meet this guy face to face so he can turn us into real people :eyes:

I told you, but you wouldn't listen...






Same thing he says every time he gets backed into a corner. His two eyes are what makes things exist; you and I are just make believe until we meet this guy face to face so he can turn us into real people :eyes:

Yea....and all this babbling bs actually means something.

HioSSilver away!.....Seriously....get out of here.

So wrong, read up on the Shelby powerplant. LSA is not new, it is in the 2012 CTS-V. The Shelby 5.8 is a more free breathing variant of the 2012 5.4 GT500. In 2012, the forged 5.4 > LSA, stock for stock, mod for mod. How do you think the forged 5.8 will compare?

I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.

Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.

The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.

Just putting this out there again...

HioSSilver away!.....Seriously....get out of here.

Yea...I'm out here to leave you guys so you can modify the ford to make it better and not touch the camaro and whine.

Yea...I'm out here to leave you guys so you can modify the ford to make it better and not touch the camaro and whine.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bRnEt20VD6s/T-2wOtPXgDI/AAAAAAAACXM/5nVb--ArphA/s1600/super-retard.jpg

Just putting this out there again...

Your point is what....do you even know what your talking about?

Your point is what....do you even know what your talking about?

That you didn't, and still don't know WTF you are talking about.

You wouldn't happen to be a member of camaro5, would you? If not you should join. Lots of blind fanboi-ism over there for you to agree with.

That you didn't, and still don't know WTF you are talking about.

You wouldn't happen to be a member of camaro5, would you? If not you should join. Lots of blind fanboi-ism over there for you to agree with.

And your point is what again?? So let me get this straight. I'm the fanboy and your the Ford guy on a LS sight trying to convince me of the Ford superiority......but I'm the fanboy.

Nice try.

And your point is what again?? So let me get this straight. I'm the fanboy and your the Ford guy on a LS sight trying to convince me of the Ford superiority......but I'm the fanboy.

Nice try.

They are commenting on what you said about the 5.8 Trinity engine being a bigger 5.0 Coyote. It is not. The 5.0 Coyote only share bore spacing, deck height, rod length, and bellhousing patterns with the older modular engine. The 5.8 Trinity is based off of the tall deck 5.4 block in order to fit the 4.165 in stroke.

They are commenting on what you said about the 5.8 Trinity engine being a bigger 5.0 Coyote. It is not. The 5.0 Coyote only share bore spacing, deck height, rod length, and bellhousing patterns with the older modular engine. The 5.8 Trinity is based off of the tall deck 5.4 block in order to fit the 4.165 in stroke.

It is the same basic architecture. Taller deck for more stroke. Just as the 5.4 was a taller deck for more stroke than a 4.6. It would be like saying a 4.8 and a ls3 has no commonality, same basic architecture there too.

And your point is what again?? So let me get this straight. I'm the fanboy and your the Ford guy on a LS sight trying to convince me of the Ford superiority......but I'm the fanboy.

Nice try.

How can you not see that you are off in your own world? Do you ignore all the F-body guys that are completely against what you are saying?? Almost all of even the hardcore GM nutswingers will admit that the GT500 is by far the superior car when it comes to going fast in a straight line, but apparently you are on a whole different level then those guys are.

It is the same basic architecture. Taller deck for more stroke. Just as the 5.4 was a taller deck for more stroke than a 4.6. It would be like saying a 4.8 and a ls3 has no commonality, same basic architecture there too.

So the new 5.0 is just a bigger 4.6?

How can you not see that you are off in your own world? Do you ignore all the F-body guys that are completely against what you are saying?? Almost all of even the hardcore GM nutswingers will admit that the GT500 is by far the superior car when it comes to going fast in a straight line, but apparently you are on a whole different level then those guys are.
I'm pretty sure I said the same thing. I said once mods begins it will be all ZL.
So the new 5.0 is just a bigger 4.6?
It's still a modular ain't it. Be a greatly updated over that turd junk they use to sell.

It is the same basic architecture. Taller deck for more stroke. Just as the 5.4 was a taller deck for more stroke than a 4.6. It would be like saying a 4.8 and a ls3 has no commonality, same basic architecture there too.

The block casting is different in the 5.0 compared to the 4.6/5.4/5.8. Firing order and heads are changed as well on the 5.0. The 5.8 is a 5.4 with the iron liners pulled out, and a thin layer of material applied to the aluminum bores for protection in order to allow for the larger bore. The 5.8 is much more an evolution (and last iteration) of the original modular family. It is much more closely related to the 5.4 than the 5.0.

The new 6.2 shares bellhousing pattern with the older modulars, but little else. It has a much wider bore spacing 4.53 vs 3.937.

The block casting is different in the 5.0 compared to the 4.6/5.4/5.8. Firing order and heads are changed as well on the 5.0. The 5.8 is a 5.4 with the iron liners pulled out, and a thin layer of material applied to the aluminum bores for protection in order to allow for the larger bore. The 5.8 is much more an evolution (and last iteration) of the original modular family. It is much more closely related to the 5.4 than the 5.0.

The new 6.2 shares bellhousing pattern with the older modulars, but little else. It has a much wider bore spacing 4.53 vs 3.937.

Yep. there are few interchangeable parts, but threre are some. One of the criteria for the 5.0 was it had to be manufactered with existing tooling.

I guess a 6.2 could be considered a big block modular.

I'm pretty sure I said the same thing. I said once mods begins it will be all ZL.


That's the part I was talking about. Explain how a car that's down 100whp, traps ~10mph lower, is weighed down by an extra 200lbs, AND responds worse to mods due to a smaller supercharger/weaker engine is going to have an advantage mod for mod? The GT500 will go high 10s/low 11s on just a tire, it takes quite a bit of work to get the ZL1 down in that range just to catch up.

I cant wait to see someone spray the piss out of a ZL1 to prove that it doesn't take alot to go fast just a tire and spray instead of having to run a cam and cnc"d heads since nobody makes a bigger blower yet.

That's the part I was talking about. Explain how a car that's down 100whp, traps ~10mph lower, is weighed down by an extra 200lbs, AND responds worse to mods due to a smaller supercharger/weaker engine is going to have an advantage mod for mod? The GT500 will go high 10s/low 11s on just a tire, it takes quite a bit of work to get the ZL1 down in that range just to catch up.

Because the 1st thing I would do is change the charger. It's to small from the get go. Besides that it's like I said earlier, you can easily make a 400+ci(even 427 or 440ci) ls motor with a appropriate sized charger is gonna make huge power. Stuff that in the really good but slightly heavy Camaro ZL chassis and it would be one incredible monster. Were not talking 10's here. It could do 9.5 or faster on pump. Hasn't someone already had a h/c ZL in the 9's?

How in the world is that "mod for mod?" GT500 went 9s bolt-on/pullied.

Hiossilver-It went 9's but not on pump gas. The crazy part is livernois said the guy who bought it is going to race it not on a drag strip but on a road course crazy huh? A road racer only a tire and race fuel swap away from 9's gotta love the new era of muscle cars...:cheers:

Because the 1st thing I would do is change the charger. It's to small from the get go. Besides that it's like I said earlier, you can easily make a 400+ci(even 427 or 440ci) ls motor with a appropriate sized charger is gonna make huge power. Stuff that in the really good but slightly heavy Camaro ZL chassis and it would be one incredible monster. Were not talking 10's here. It could do 9.5 or faster on pump. Hasn't someone already had a h/c ZL in the 9's?

So, you would buy a bigger blower that cost several thousand dollars and a GT500 owner would spend $1k on a pulley, tune and tires and still destroy you.

I'm trying real hard to see where the ZL1 wins in the "mod for mod" department.:gay:

You keep digging a deeper hole everytime you post in this thread.

Because the 1st thing I would do is change the charger. It's to small from the get go. Besides that it's like I said earlier, you can easily make a 400+ci(even 427 or 440ci) ls motor with a appropriate sized charger is gonna make huge power. Stuff that in the really good but slightly heavy Camaro ZL chassis and it would be one incredible monster. Were not talking 10's here. It could do 9.5 or faster on pump. Hasn't someone already had a h/c ZL in the 9's?

So, more mods to the ZL1 than the GT500 is going to eventually make it the faster car? NO WAY! They did go 9s at 140+mph on a H/C ZL1 with full bolt ons, compared to the GT500 running the same times on full bolt ons with stock heads and cams. So, again, it took more mods for the ZL1 just to match the GT500. How again is it that the ZL1 the faster car mod for mod??

So, you would buy a bigger blower that cost several thousand dollars and a GT500 owner would spend $1k on a pulley, tune and tires and still destroy you.

I'm trying real hard to see where the ZL1 wins in the "mod for mod" department.:gay:

You keep digging a deeper hole everytime you post in this thread.

So, more mods to the ZL1 than the GT500 is going to eventually make it the faster car? NO WAY! They did go 9s at 140+mph on a H/C ZL1 with full bolt ons, compared to the GT500 running the same times on full bolt ons with stock heads and cams. So, again, it took more mods for the ZL1 just to match the GT500. How again is it that the ZL1 the faster car mod for mod??

Well it's obvious that you two are Ford nut-swingers :lol:

even i cant see a zl1 having an advantage over a 2013 GT500. that thing is a monster. i mean yes im sure theyll be some zl1s running some good times but i see gt500s running faster.

So, you would buy a bigger blower that cost several thousand dollars and a GT500 owner would spend $1k on a pulley, tune and tires and still destroy you.

I'm trying real hard to see where the ZL1 wins in the "mod for mod" department.:gay:

You keep digging a deeper hole everytime you post in this thread.

So if you compare the cost of the ZL1+bigger blower it is about the same as a equally equipped GT500 no? Is there not a roughly 6-8000 dollar price difference between the two?

Now don't get me wrong I know the GT500 is a beast but at the same time when it comes down to dollar for dollar a blower swap would put them to about the same money but the ZL1 would problably make more power.

So if you compare the cost of the ZL1+bigger blower it is about the same as a equally equipped GT500 no? Is there not a roughly 6-8000 dollar price difference between the two?

Now don't get me wrong I know the GT500 is a beast but at the same time when it comes down to dollar for dollar a blower swap would put them to about the same money but the ZL1 would problably make more power.

The way this particular car was equipped, yes. But a base GT500 is almost the exact same price as a base ZL1, and if you are that focused on straight line performance that is the car you would get.

So if you compare the cost of the ZL1+bigger blower it is about the same as a equally equipped GT500 no? Is there not a roughly 6-8000 dollar price difference between the two?

Now don't get me wrong I know the GT500 is a beast but at the same time when it comes down to dollar for dollar a blower swap would put them to about the same money but the ZL1 would problably make more power.

Both cars cost the same, if going fast in a straight line is your only want there's no need for anything other than the "base".

So, more mods to the ZL1 than the GT500 is going to eventually make it the faster car? NO WAY! They did go 9s at 140+mph on a H/C ZL1 with full bolt ons, compared to the GT500 running the same times on full bolt ons with stock heads and cams. So, again, it took more mods for the ZL1 just to match the GT500. How again is it that the ZL1 the faster car mod for mod??

Ah you forgot to add that one of those cars had to have suspension,brakes and weight reduction while the ZL1 just added power although it did cost more but that's also assuming you don't save a big chunk by doing it yourself which alot guys do so that will lessen the financial hit. The other car that went 9's did it with full weight stock brakes and stock suspension with the help of nitrous but the draw back to that is not having that power at all time since the bottle does run out.

At the end of the day it's all going to come down to who's pockets are deeper.

The way this particular car was equipped, yes. But a base GT500 is almost the exact same price as a base ZL1, and if you are that focused on straight line performance that is the car you would get.
Agreed to a point because the ZL1 will go 9's and still be able to do everything it was built to do as where the GT500 in this case either won't or will but without the added power of the bottle to which I might add leaves you with a one trick pony.
Both cars cost the same, if going fast in a straight line is your only want there's no need for anything other than the "base".

Ok but if you all you care about is going fast for 1320 and nothing else then buying a GT500 is pointless since it would be cheaper to buy a GT and go just as fast if not faster for the same price.

Some people want to go fast and still be able to handle sorta like when guys go from a fbody to a vette wait didn't you do that? You of all people should be able to appreciate a car that can not only go fast but hug the corners at the same time.

You are playing like the GT500 doesn't handle incredibly. The ZL1 is just better in that aspect. Neither car is a "one-trick pony."

You are playing like the GT500 doesn't handle incredibly. The ZL1 is just better in that aspect. Neither car is a "one-trick pony."

No sir I never said the GT500 doesn't handle well I said that the way evolution motorsports built their car no longer allows it to track the way it would stock do you not agree?

No sir I never said the GT500 doesn't handle well I said that the way evolution motorsports built their car no longer allows it to track the way it would stock do you not agree?

Ok my mistake, I didn't see the "in this case" part. Yes, the way that particular car was setup was focused on drag racing at the expense of handling/braking.

So if you compare the cost of the ZL1+bigger blower it is about the same as a equally equipped GT500 no? Is there not a roughly 6-8000 dollar price difference between the two?

Now don't get me wrong I know the GT500 is a beast but at the same time when it comes down to dollar for dollar a blower swap would put them to about the same money but the ZL1 would problably make more power.

Initial cost has nothing to do with the point being argued. HioSSilver said "mod for mod" (mods happen after purchasing a vehicle) the ZL1 responds better and makes more power.

Utter bullshit.

^^^While it might not be the same point he was making it is a point people can't deny.

Mod vs mod=GT500
Dollar vs dollar=ZL1 (total spent on car and parts)

Ok my mistake, I didn't see the "in this case" part. Yes, the way that particular car was setup was focused on drag racing at the expense of handling/braking.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on that but theirs only been two 2013 GT500's to hit 9's so I figured everyone knew what I was talking about.:cheers:

^^^While it might not be the same point he was making it is a point people can't deny.

Mod vs mod=GT500
Dollar vs dollar=ZL1 (total spent on car and parts)

Depends on the performance contest you are speaking of.

Initial cost has nothing to do with the point being argued. HioSSilver said "mod for mod" (mods happen after purchasing a vehicle) the ZL1 responds better and makes more power.

Utter bullshit.
Not at all. And it will. Once mods start the power gap starts to close. There for the zl will do better mod for mod whether it makes as much power or not. The zl can increase boost significantly and the GT500 cannot(other than a couple pounds maybe).
Depends on the performance contest you are speaking of.

Any. Once building bottom ends start it's over for the Ford. It simply can't get to 400+ci. and thus will not make the power.

Not at all. And it will. Once mods start the power gap starts to close. There for the zl will do better mod for mod whether it makes as much power or not. The zl can increase boost significantly and the GT500 cannot(other than a couple pounds maybe).

$2k will get you 700rwhp out of the GT500. (CAI, throttle body, harmonic balancer, tune)

The ZL1 needs all of those bolt-ons plus a ported blower, plus a better heat exchanger plus a heads/cam package to reach 700rwhp. News Flash: That cost WAY more than $2k.

$2k will get you 700rwhp out of the GT500. (CAI, throttle body, harmonic balancer, tune)

The ZL1 needs all of those bolt-ons plus a ported blower, plus a better heat exchanger plus a heads/cam package to reach 700rwhp. News Flash: That cost WAY more than $2k.

The gt500 I have seen with a tune has used race gas or a mix. That as I have stated is off the table...atleast for me. Besides I don't care about dyno #. I want to close the acceleration gap. And news flash, price as tested the GT500 was 6k more. That leaves me some room to work with;).

You guys act like this car is a god and can't be beat. Once built bottom ends are taking place it's all zl after that.

You think the only tunes for GT500 that make good power use race gas? And you also completely ignore the fact that the GT500 already has a built bottom end. You are trying so hard to make us agree with you. You can't use the "mod for mod" argument with so many stipulations.

The gt500 I have seen with a tune has used race gas or a mix. That as I have stated is off the table...atleast for me. Besides I don't care about dyno #. I want to close the acceleration gap. And news flash, price as tested the GT500 was 6k more. That leaves me some room to work with;).

You guys act like this car is a god and can't be beat. Once built bottom ends are taking place it's all zl after that.

oh, brother

You think the only tunes for GT500 that make good power use race gas? And you also completely ignore the fact that the GT500 already has a built bottom end. You are trying so hard to make us agree with you. You can't use the "mod for mod" argument with so many stipulations.

The gt500 is running on 5lb more boost from the factory. It's not gonna go much more. That 5lb on the Zl is gonna close the gap significantly. Did'nt you guys think of that? Or do you just not want to admit it? I don't know where the blowers on each start to loose their efficiency and for sure the zl will need a blower change at some point, but that's easy enough on factory blower cars.

At any rate there is much more room for making power left in the ZL than the gt500 imo.

The gt500 is running on 5lb more boost from the factory. It's not gonna go much more. That 5lb on the Zl is gonna close the gap significantly. Did'nt you guys think of that? Or do you just not want to admit it? I don't know where the blowers on each start to loose their efficiency and for sure the zl will need a blower change at some point, but that's easy enough on factory blower cars.

Are you forgetting the GT500 can go to a Whipple and not blow the bottem end of the engine out of the oil pan?

ZL1 would need a blower swap, heads, cam, full exhaust and a built bottom end to hang.

Are you forgetting the GT500 can go to a Whipple and not blow the bottem end of the engine out of the oil pan?

ZL1 would need a blower swap, heads, cam, full exhaust and a built bottom end to hang.

So far we know of 1 blown gt500. So what you say may not be true ;). This is why I say once the built bottoms start it's a done deal for the gt500. It's displacement is maxxed, the ZL has a long way to go in that department.

What kind of horsepower are we talking here?? There are 2.0L turbo engines making 1500+whp, which is about the limit for a street car, so what good is the 1 liter a built ZL1 will have on a built GT500 going to do? Did you forget about the whole boosted thing? If we were talking motor vs motor more cubes will win, but that is not at all the case here.

So far we know of 1 blown gt500. So what you say may not be true ;). This is why I say once the built bottoms start it's a done deal for the gt500. It's displacement is maxxed, the ZL has a long way to go in that department.

Boosted 5.4 DOHC

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAVHiEKdYg

So far we know of 1 blown gt500. So what you say may not be true ;). This is why I say once the built bottoms start it's a done deal for the gt500. It's displacement is maxxed, the ZL has a long way to go in that department.

Dude, stop riding GM's nutsack, you sound like an uneducated idiot. Everyone but you apparently knows the safe limit of the LSA and of the 5.4 (5.8).

What kind of horsepower are we talking here?? There are 2.0L turbo engines making 1500+whp, which is about the limit for a street car, so what good is the 1 liter a built ZL1 will have on a built GT500 going to do? Did you forget about the whole boosted thing? If we were talking motor vs motor more cubes will win, but that is not at all the case here.
Really....1500hp 4cyl. You have no idea what kind of a time bomb that thing is, and it's on race gas and definitely not a street car engine. This is why you and don't see eye to eye. You believe this crap.
Boosted 5.4 DOHC

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAVHiEKdYg
Really, your gonna post up a race car...nice you tube racing. I bet that's the only type of racing you do. Do you even have a car?
Dude, stop riding GM's nutsack, you sound like an uneducated idiot. Everyone but you apparently knows the safe limit of the LSA and of the 5.4 (5.8).

Well apparently that shop that blew up the gt500 didn't know the safe limit. My blowed up termi swapped notched was apparently over the safe limit too, and no where near the power the limit you guys think should be safe. I'm sure Irunelevens knows the safe limit of his 14 sec cars ......since your in his camp I figured I would mention that.

As I have said both are great cars, I don't know how that is nutswinging. But the ZL has more potential left in it. That's just the facts.

Always bringing up the shitty gas in Virginia, and my Taurus (16s car, btw...on a good day). Pretty sad. :judge:

Always bringing up the shitty gas in Virginia, and my Taurus (16s car, btw...on a good day). Pretty sad. :judge:

This is the problem. Your to hard headed to understand that there are other places w/o the highly subsidized e85 besides VA, like NC and CT. Then you want to use it as a band aide of excuses for little motors.:gay:

This is the problem. Your to hard headed to understand that there are other places w/o the highly subsidized e85 besides VA, like NC and CT. Then you want to use it as a band aide of excuses for little motors.:gay:

And you are too thick-headed to realize that there are places outside your little bubble. If you didn't see it, it never happened. And if somebody builds their car differently than your car, it is a compromised race car. Traditional weight reduction instead of painstaking work with a plasma cutter? Race car. Fuel higher than 91 octane? Race car. Drag-focused suspension/tires? Race car. You continuously use your car and your circumstances as excuses to invalidate what other people do. And literally every member of this site sees it, except for you. And little motors? Last I checked, 5.8 > 5.7. Oh but wait, I almost forgot about the LS7 in your garage...you haven't talked about it yet today. :eyes:

Dude I have traveled all over the country with a ALMS team I worked for. All you ever do is talk out your inexperienced ass. Really.....91 octane, reachin for it there ain't ya bud. Did'nt GM stop making 5.7's in like oohhh like 04, nice try again.

As far as my ls7 goes.....you brought it up.

You mad brah?


Oh yea , forgive me for being creative and not gutting my car to get weight off of it. Any car guy with half a brain would give me props for a 3000lb fully functioning 4th gen SS Camaro.....but not you. You would rather ridicule someone for taking the road less traveled. I wonder where the half of your brain is.

Why don't you go hang out on a ford site instead of being on here making excuses for them.

Really, your gonna post up a race car...nice you tube racing. I bet that's the only type of racing you do. Do you even have a car?

Just an example that proves your "displacement" This is why I say once the built bottoms start it's a done deal for the gt500. It's displacement is maxxedcomment wrong. It doesn't always matter how big your engine is.

And, yes. I do have a car and I sure as shit bet you it's little motor will hold up to boost better than your big bad LS6.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/ross87t/angle.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/ross87t/Motor1.jpg

Just an example that proves your "displacement" comment wrong. It doesn't always matter how big your engine is.

And, yes. I do have a car and I sure as shit bet you it's little motor will hold up to boost better than your big bad LS6.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/ross87t/angle.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/ross87t/Motor1.jpg

Nice :cheers:. I'm sure you know the limits of pump gas and a smaller engine. As far as it holding up better, I would'nt count on that.

Jeez. Racing hypothetical modification schemes against each other is gay beyond reasoning. And arguing about how car X will compare with car Y after they've been pushed up to 1000hp is just completely pointless...as is trying to race two engines against each other on the internet. Last time I checked, people race CARS, not engines. The motor is only part of the equation.

How about we keep it about stock vs stock for now?...everything else just turns into a shit-slinging contest, as most of us here already know.

Jeez. Racing hypothetical modification schemes against each other is gay beyond reasoning. And arguing about how car X will compare with car Y after they've been pushed up to 1000hp is just completely pointless...as is trying to race two engines against each other on the internet. Last time I checked, people race CARS, not engines. The motor is only part of the equation.

How about we keep it about stock vs stock for now?...everything else just turns into a shit-slinging contest, as most of us here already know.

This is why I say zl1. It's the better car.

And you are too thick-headed to realize that there are places outside your little bubble. If you didn't see it, it never happened. And if somebody builds their car differently than your car, it is a compromised race car. Traditional weight reduction instead of painstaking work with a plasma cutter? Race car. Fuel higher than 91 octane? Race car. Drag-focused suspension/tires? Race car. You continuously use your car and your circumstances as excuses to invalidate what other people do.

Didn't happen in front of his two eyes and doesn't have a GM badge=lies, happened in front of him, but he didn't work on the motor, and it's not a GM=they cheated, etc..It all boils down to no GM badge=junk in his eyes.

What the hell is wrong with you guys? I said said they were both great cars. I even said the gt500 has more motor in it. But the ZL is the better car, you guys can't except that ot that the ls has more potential now :STFU: and go over to svt and hang out.

This thread is proof of why I like picking with Hio :gruffy:

Always bringing up the shitty gas in Virginia, and my Taurus (16s car, btw...on a good day). Pretty sad. :judge:

I'm gonna leave this here for ya since your such a smartass. Notice I'm not involved in this conversation.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-members/1572099-i-really-wish-we-had-e-85-stations.html

I'm gonna leave this here for ya since your such a smartass. Notice I'm not involved in this conversation.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-members/1572099-i-really-wish-we-had-e-85-stations.html

So run meth with pump gas. Next excuse please.

Dude I have traveled all over the country with a ALMS team I worked for. All you ever do is talk out your inexperienced ass. Really.....91 octane, reachin for it there ain't ya bud. Did'nt GM stop making 5.7's in like oohhh like 04, nice try again.

As far as my ls7 goes.....you brought it up.

You mad brah?


Oh yea , forgive me for being creative and not gutting my car to get weight off of it. Any car guy with half a brain would give me props for a 3000lb fully functioning 4th gen SS Camaro.....but not you. You would rather ridicule someone for taking the road less traveled. I wonder where the half of your brain is.

Why don't you go hang out on a ford site instead of being on here making excuses for them.

And here are your blinders again... I have always complimented your car and what you have done to it. But you talk about it ALL THE TIME like you created God's gift to the automotive world. It got really old years ago. Every single person here knows what you are going to say before you say it. It always has something to do with "race gas," "gutted tin cans," or your "little stock engine Camaro." Lay it to rest man.

Stock long block vs stock long block the gt500 will problably go further on "pump" gas based on the 07-12 gt500's and the past cts-v caddy's. It seems like the LSA motors need to run meth to hit the same numbers as the old 5.4's on the pump which since your making huge power on a cast motor in a heavy car.

It's sucks that livernois sold the zl1 they had before putting a bigger blower on because I wanna see how far the zl1 will go before it blows like evolution did in their 13 gt500 which went 9.6's then BOOM!!!

It's sucks that livernois sold the zl1 they had before putting a bigger blower on because I wanna see how far the zl1 will go before it blows like evolution did in 13 gr500 which went 9.6's then BOOM!!!I'd like to know how far it can be pushed as well. We know there are plenty of stock bottom end (LSA) CTS-Vs in the 10s and even a couple in the high 9s but I'm curious just how far it can go as well. :nod:

And here are your blinders again... I have always complimented your car and what you have done to it. But you talk about it ALL THE TIME like you created God's gift to the automotive world. It got really old years ago. Every single person here knows what you are going to say before you say it. It always has something to do with "race gas," "gutted tin cans," or your "little stock engine Camaro." Lay it to rest man.
I did'nt mention my car until you brought it up. Someone else almost always brings it up. Then I have to retort.....or just take the bs and shut up. That's not gonna happen. If you don't want to hear about it don't bring it up.
Stock long block vs stock long block the gt500 will problably go further on "pump" gas based on the 07-12 gt500's and the past cts-v caddy's. It seems like the LSA motors need to run meth to hit the same numbers as the old 5.4's on the pump which since your making huge power on a cast motor in a heavy car.

It's sucks that livernois sold the zl1 they had before putting a bigger blower on because I wanna see how far the zl1 will go before it blows like evolution did in their 13 gt500 which went 9.6's then BOOM!!!

Not at all. The ls engine is much stronger. Case point- you don't see anyone hotrodding normal ford truck engines. I do believe the zl has been 9's on the ported oe blower. Smaller blower and still nippin the heels with no scattered parts.

This thread has been HILARIOUS! Hio... You really have much to learn about the GT500, the modular engine family, the Coyote, the 6.2L Ford... Racing things in general... You're crackin' me up though, I'll admit!

I'll have to keep in mind that, mod for mod, as long you they're ONLY done to the ZL1, the ZL1 will have the advantage! :lol:

Just a blower swap, tires, tune, probably an entire fuel system and last, but probably not least, the new reciprocating assembly so the engine has a chance to stay together. BLAM! The ZL1 wins! :rotflmao:

Nice :cheers:. I'm sure you know the limits of pump gas and a smaller engine. As far as it holding up better, I would'nt count on that.

My helper:

http://rjcracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/ALKY-Control-Kit.jpg

Not at all. The ls engine is much stronger. Case point- you don't see anyone hotrodding normal ford truck engines. I do believe the zl has been 9's on the ported oe blower. Smaller blower and still nippin the heels with no scattered parts.
Yes I know but that car was on race fuel not pump gas. I know of all the turbo stock ls cars and trucks but to compare a turbo to supercharged setup isn't fair.

This thread has been HILARIOUS! Hio... You really have much to learn about the GT500, the modular engine family, the Coyote, the 6.2L Ford... Racing things in general... You're crackin' me up though, I'll admit!

I'll have to keep in mind that, mod for mod, as long you they're ONLY done to the ZL1, the ZL1 will have the advantage! :lol:

Just a blower swap, tires, tune, probably an entire fuel system and last, but probably not least, the new reciprocating assembly so the engine has a chance to stay together. BLAM! The ZL1 wins! :rotflmao:

Well if the gt500 blew up at 9.6 and the stock bottom ZL went 9.8 and stayed together......hhhhmmmm You know what that tells me.

I know plenty about racing things.....I've been doing it for a long time and professionally for 17 yrs . Never pro drag racing though, just playing there.

But but but...race gas! Invalidated!

But but but...race gas! Invalidated!

Nope it's was on done on "GM" 93 octane its there own special blend........:)

Well if the gt500 blew up at 9.6 and the stock bottom ZL went 9.8 and stayed together......hhhhmmmm You know what that tells me.

I know plenty about racing things.....I've been doing it for a long time and professionally for 17 yrs . Never pro drag racing though, just playing there.

Evo was running 9.6s at 149 a week before the motor blew up (power in the 900s). It was reportedly over 1000whp when it let go.

But but but...race gas! Invalidated!

Nope it's was on done on "GM" 93 octane its there own special blend........:)

Both was on race gas so moot point. Put them both on 93.

One car went a 9.6 and blew. The heavier car went a 9.8 and lived. Maybe the car that went 9.6 can't live there. Who knows???? I guess EVO does.....now

Both was on race gas so moot point. Put them both on 93.

One car went a 9.6 and blew. The heavier car went a 9.8 and lived. Maybe the car that went 9.6 can't live there. Who knows???? I guess EVO does.....now

Yeah I just being funny I know they where both on race fuel. Yeah the fact that the ZL1 did go 9.8's at full weight is mighty impressive but alot of people don't give it credit because it needed more mods to do it.

I think if I had a GT500 I wouldn't waste the money on a bigger blower with a stock short block since you wouldn't be able to turn up the boost. I would like to see a GT500 with just engine mods at full weight without an extra power adder run 9's on 17's like the zl1 did or instead of heads and cam just bolt ons and spray on a zl1 to see how it runs.

Both was on race gas so moot point. Put them both on 93.

One car went a 9.6 and blew. The heavier car went a 9.8 and lived. Maybe the car that went 9.6 can't live there. Who knows???? I guess EVO does.....now

Lethal's 2013 also went 9.77 at 148 on the stock blower with just bolt ons and a little spray. I didn't blow up yet. It should have a the new whipple 4.5l blower on it by now..

I know you are an irrational fan boy, but going damn near 150mph in the quarter without removing the valve covers should impress damn near everyone.

I said it was impressive and a awesome motor. But you guys can't seem to accept that someone would want the ZL1 over the GT500. I can get 100 more hp out of the zl1 easier than you can get the gt500 to handle like the ZL1.

All the crying about handling is funny... Like the streets are the 'ring or something. No one would ever push either car to the limits of their handling abilities while on the street. It's like the GM guys pride is hurt and that's all they can muster to save face. The GT500 dominates the ZL1 where it counts.. In the real world.

Not at all. I run run around with 18x9.5 r-compound rr tires on my car all the time. I have did many handling and brake upgrades along with a aggressive alignment. I have a set of new koni's waiting to go on along with some strano springs to replace my aging hotchkis springs. Also some new bushings in control arms that I lightened. I'll probably get some strano bars at some point. All this is handling related. I love a great handling car and you can spend more time on that than making hp. Getting a car to go straight for a 1/4 mile is easy, but it takes far more to make a great car to me.

I wish the ZL had more power like everyone else. But until companies start making k-members to swap a mod motor into my chevy, then I think we all know which engine platform is better.;)

All the crying about handling is funny... Like the streets are the 'ring or something. No one would ever push either car to the limits of their handling abilities while on the street. It's like the GM guys pride is hurt and that's all they can muster to save face. The GT500 dominates the ZL1 where it counts.. In the real world.

My real world is full of curves both here in the Valley at NASA and up just 40 minutes north on roads like 89A.

My real world is full of curves both here in the Valley at NASA and up just 40 minutes north on roads like 89A.

Do you plan to buy either car? I'm guessing no. In your real world, you could never max out either car's handling or cornering capabilities.. Regardless of what you think.

What car do you drive now?

All the crying about handling is funny... Like the streets are the 'ring or something. No one would ever push either car to the limits of their handling abilities while on the street. It's like the GM guys pride is hurt and that's all they can muster to save face. The GT500 dominates the ZL1 where it counts.. In the real world.

Seeing how their isn't one video of a non magazine driver running 11's (stock) on the strip I don't think the gt500 is killing anything in the real world unless there roll racing. While the car is faster it seems like its alot harder then most thought it would be to go and run those magazine times that's why I said along time ago that a auto zl1 would give a gt500 hell on the street where theirs even less traction.Sorry but so far the real world test have showed that unless the gt500 has alot of traction its not to far ahead of the zl1 in the 1320.

Seeing how their isn't one video of a non magazine driver running 11's (stock) on the strip I don't think the gt500 is killing anything in the real world unless there roll racing. While the car is faster it seems like its alot harder then most thought it would be to go and run those magazine times that's why I said along time ago that a auto zl1 would give a gt500 hell on the street where theirs even less traction.Sorry but so far the real world test have showed that unless the gt500 has alot of traction its not to far ahead of the zl1 in the 1320.

2 guys in the "real world". Oh wait...that's just a Boss 302 making around 475hp to the flywheel...not the 2013 GT500 making 660hp at the flywheel...my bad.

Don't even pretend like the GT500 won't put bus lengths on the ZL1 during your average street encounter.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=169JFXbccBs

Seeing how their isn't one video of a non magazine driver running 11's (stock) on the strip I don't think the gt500 is killing anything in the real world unless there roll racing. While the car is faster it seems like its alot harder then most thought it would be to go and run those magazine times that's why I said along time ago that a auto zl1 would give a gt500 hell on the street where theirs even less traction.Sorry but so far the real world test have showed that unless the gt500 has alot of traction its not to far ahead of the zl1 in the 1320.

You need to work on that...

Are you really trying to say magazine drivers are far better than average drivers? :jest: The magazine guys have got down to 11.6, and have a highest trap of 128, both numbers CRUSH the ZL1s best by anyone. Where are all these videos of people running slower? The magazine guys were running 11s using to stock launch control, so anyone with half a brain and decent conditions/track prep is going to run 11s.

Well if you 2 love the gt500 some much, put your money where your mouth is and go buy one. Nothing is stopping you. Then you can go hang on svt and be a god over there.

Everyone knows the gt500 will out accelerate it. But there is a bit more to a car than that. If you don't think so then go take everything out of your cars so it gets maximum acceleration.

so anyone with half a brain and decent conditions/track prep is going to run 11s.

There was one at Mokan in MO Friday night...best I saw him run was 12.6@118mph. He also ran a high 12 and a 13.0 same night.

Track prep was as good as normal and it was cooler out, DA was 2000ft though due to humidity.

There was one at Mokan in MO Friday night...best I saw him run was 12.6@118mph. He also ran a high 12 and a 13.0 same night.

Track prep was as good as normal and it was cooler out, DA was 2000ft though due to humidity.

I outran a 2006 C6Z06 all day in my bolt-on F-body, he was running high 13s-low 14s to my low-mid 13s. Does that mean anything other than the driver sucked? Nope.

There was one at Mokan in MO Friday night...best I saw him run was 12.6@118mph. He also ran a high 12 and a 13.0 same night.

Track prep was as good as normal and it was cooler out, DA was 2000ft though due to humidity.

Key words

2 guys in the "real world". Oh wait...that's just a Boss 302 making around 475hp to the flywheel...not the 2013 GT500 making 660hp at the flywheel...my bad.

Don't even pretend like the GT500 won't put bus lengths on the ZL1 during your average street encounter.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=169JFXbccBs

You need to work on that...

Are you really trying to say magazine drivers are far better than average drivers? :jest: The magazine guys have got down to 11.6, and have a highest trap of 128, both numbers CRUSH the ZL1s best by anyone. Where are all these videos of people running slower? The magazine guys were running 11s using to stock launch control, so anyone with half a brain and decent conditions/track prep is going to run 11s.

You two are both riding the gt500 c-train so hard that your not comprehending what I said I never once said the zl1 was faster just pointed out that the "real world" drivers with "real world" conditions are running the same times as the zl1. Yeah the car is faster but traction better be at a premium and you better be a great driver or it means nothing in the "real world" unless your roll racing.

Show me where they are running the same times at the same track/same day. You can't compare the best ZL1 to the worst GT500 times. I've seen videos of ZL1s only trapping 112mph and getting beat by almost stock 5.0 Mustangs, but I'm not going to use those to make an argument with. Comparing the two is about the same as saying a C6Z06 is on par with a base LS2 C6 with average drivers. We are talking 8-10mph trap speed differences, that is HUGE.

Now if you want to admit you are really comparing really shitty drivers to really good ones I can agree, but two drivers with close to equal skill is going to be a ZL1 ass kicking all day.

This whole thread is like one long circle-jerk...except no one is getting off.

I outran a 2006 C6Z06 all day in my bolt-on F-body, he was running high 13s-low 14s to my low-mid 13s. Does that mean anything other than the driver sucked? Nope.

Key words

I was just responding to his comment that made it sound like driving the car to 11s was going to be a cakewalk.

The same guy also has a ZR1 that I've seen go deep in the 11s at 124-126mph. He definitely isn't a good driver at all, but he isn't full blown retarded either.

Show me where they are running the same times at the same track/same day. You can't compare the best ZL1 to the worst GT500 times. I've seen videos of ZL1s only trapping 112mph and getting beat by almost stock 5.0 Mustangs, but I'm not going to use those to make an argument with. Comparing the two is about the same as saying a C6Z06 is on par with a base LS2 C6 with average drivers. We are talking 8-10mph trap speed differences, that is HUGE.

Now if you want to admit you are really comparing really shitty drivers to really good ones I can agree, but two drivers with close to equal skill is going to be a ZL1 ass kicking all day.

Ok a few weeks back I made the comment that a auto zl1 will give a gt500 a hard time stop light to stop light and you guys said I had no clue what I was talking about and in the "real world" it would get destroyed and with an excellent driver it will but let's face it most people in the "real world" aren't good drivers but hey that's the "real world". You feel like I'm trying to compare best times to worst times and that's not true either I'm comparing the times of the guys who have bought the car and taken them to the track. What times are you using? Magazine times? Now stop hanging on the mph since that was never even part of the discussion since we know it will have a higher mph with less weight and more power but it also shows how hard it really is to launch these cars even though the reviews made it seem like it would be in the 11's without even trying.

^looks like retard spewing more shit.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-comparison-test-review