Generation IV Internal Engine - Sleeved Ls motor ?'s! (Hidden Cost)

SLEEVED MOTOR GUYS?????

Saving for a resleeved Ls2 an i want to know what things are needed that aren't mentioned much when buy a motor of this type. Dont want to be surprised by any parts that are needed to run this type of build!

THANKS FOR ANY INFO GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

1)COOLING: Do engines of this type run higher temps then stock sleeve engines due to the sleeving process? Is a special type of antifreeze needed? Is a high flow water pump or electric water pump needed? Is a KURT URBAN WATER VAPOR SET-UP nessesary on this type of build?

2)OILING: Is an aftermarket oil cooling system recommended? Is the regular oiling system (ported ls6 or meiling) capable of keeping up with this type of build? Or is something else needed?

3)Pistons: Are custom pistons and rings neccesary or is there an off the shelf piston for the sleeved block? Nitrited rings worth it for small shot?

4)Vacuum: Are you guys having vaccum issues with these type motors? Is a vaccum pump recommended?

Im sure i could call RED, VA SPEED, OR ERL to get these ?'s answered but i thought id ask people with real world long term driving experience with a block of this type what all is needed. It will be a daily Driver/weekend warrior 427 11.1 compression setup with tfs heads small cam nitrous car!

AM I GOING OVER BOARD WITH WORRY GUYS? OR WOULD ALL THESE THINGS HELP OUT!

Am i going over board with worry guys? Or would all these things help out



YES on all

Am i going over board with worry guys? Or would all these things help out



YES on all

DO you have a sleeved setup? Would you go into detail on why you think im going overboard? Thanks anyway for the bump if you have nothing else to add!
Anyone else? Am i willing to purchase all these parts..... YES!! Just want to know what im getting into up front! THANKS AGAIN FOR ANY INFO GUYS

SLEEVED MOTOR GUYS?????

Saving for a resleeved Ls2 an i want to know what things are needed that aren't mentioned much when buy a motor of this type. Dont want to be surprised by any parts that are needed to run this type of build!

THANKS FOR ANY INFO GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

1)COOLING: Do engines of this type run higher temps then stock sleeve engines due to the sleeving process? Is a special type of antifreeze needed? Is a high flow water pump or electric water pump needed? Is a KURT URBAN WATER VAPOR SET-UP nessesary on this type of build?

2)OILING: Is an aftermarket oil cooling system recommended? Is the regular oiling system (ported ls6 or meiling) capable of keeping up with this type of build? Or is something else needed?

3)Pistons: Are custom pistons and rings neccesary or is there an off the shelf piston for the sleeved block? Nitrited rings worth it for small shot?

4)Vacuum: Are you guys having vaccum issues with these type motors? Is a vaccum pump recommended?

Im sure i could call RED, VA SPEED, OR ERL to get these ?'s answered but i thought id ask people with real world long term driving experience with a block of this type what all is needed. It will be a daily Driver/weekend warrior 427 11.1 compression setup with tfs heads small cam nitrous car!

AM I GOING OVER BOARD WITH WORRY GUYS? OR WOULD ALL THESE THINGS HELP OUT!

1: With a Darton sleeve, Darton recommends running an Evan's water pump. They provide better cooling from bank to bank. Don't know what ERL suggest. There is also a specific headgasket you have to run (pretty sure, not positive about this)

2: Big cube guys run Melling and ported LS6 oil pumps.

3: Shelf pistons will work depending on your combination, you can get custom pistons for any application. But weather or not sleeved blocks require a specific piston I don't remember ever reading anything about that.

4: A vaccum pump is your choice. Some guys run them because they eliminate the need for a PCV system. The big thing on these engines is they are known for excessive blow by and oil consumption in the intake tract. But you can run a good PCV system with a good catch can and be fine. Vacuum pumps are about oil control and ring seal. People have claimed anywhere from 10 to 40 horsepower gain from adding a vacuum pump. If your interested in one check out GZ Motorsports they make a nice LSX bracket and pump.

You might be going overboard, but it never hurts to be thorough and do it right the first time. :cheers:

1: With a Darton sleeve, Darton recommends running an Evan's water pump. They provide better cooling from bank to bank. Don't know what ERL suggest. There is also a specific headgasket you have to run (pretty sure, not positive about this)

2: Big cube guys run Melling and ported LS6 oil pumps.

3: Shelf pistons will work depending on your combination, you can get custom pistons for any application. But weather or not sleeved blocks require a specific piston I don't remember ever reading anything about that.

4: A vaccum pump is your choice. Some guys run them because they eliminate the need for a PCV system. The big thing on these engines is they are known for excessive blow by and oil consumption in the intake tract. But you can run a good PCV system with a good catch can and be fine. Vacuum pumps are about oil control and ring seal. People have claimed anywhere from 10 to 40 horsepower gain from adding a vacuum pump. If your interested in one check out GZ Motorsports they make a nice LSX bracket and pump.

You might be going overboard, but it never hurts to be thorough and do it right the first time. :cheers:

Thanks Man SERIOUSLY thanks! All i want to do is be thorough so i know what im getting into b4 i take the plunge, lol. Honestly im asking these questions for myself and more then one of my friends that are going to help me tackle this build. They would have asked the questions themselves but there are people that troll ls1tech and other forums that are in competition with them that look for there screen name to see an know there set-up/an or plans! MY BUDDYS ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THESE THINGS BUT THEY WONT POST ANY OF IT BECAUSE OF THE POST TROLLS! LOL! THANX FOR ANY HELP BECAUSE IM GOING TO NEED IT SINCE IM FIRST UP TO BUILD! Hope its a fun process!

So no oil cooler kit it needed? They dont burn oil? Hate to sound like a dummy but i just have to ask? Not asking to be repeative, asking because i plan on make a bunch of purchases to today an this will be a big cube daily driver in the heat! Anyone experience driving any sleeved ls builds in 90" temps(VERY HOT WHERE I LIVE)! I plan on driving to and from the track so if i must over do it i will!

A week ago today,I receive my LS2 434 Dry Sleeve block from ERL.The GZ Motorsports vaccum pump is something I need to look into.

Good oil system is something I would do. Pan pickup and pump are all things to look at. I don't have a cooler on mine and have seen temps 220are range with 100 degree air temps. Most of the time they are below 200.

Tim

never had a problem with any of that with my erl block.

yes i have a sleeved block, ive never done anything special. its the same as a stock block just a lot lot stronger

+1 Darton from RED and nothing different from stock cooling wise. All good.

+1 Darton from RED and nothing different from stock cooling wise. All good.

Is your car a daily driver or track setup? IM LOOKING FOR MORE DAILY DRIVER EXPERIENCES WITH THE SLEEVED BUILDS. I want to daily drive my 427 an go to the track once or twice! I just want to build a motor that size that i can drive alot ALOT ALOT of miles and enjoy! I dont want to break down or freshen it up yearly or every season as racers do! Im no longer a street racer but a motor of this size is a passion that i have that i want to build an be safe an secure with on driving out of town, around town, an play around with with ZERO ISSUES! Im not a ill informed youngster that is dreaming of doing a build of this type, ITS IN THE WORKS an i just want to cover everything!

HONESTLY I WANT TO GO OVERBOARD TO GIVE MYSELF A CUSHION IN THE REGARD TO LONGEVITY! Canton oil cooler kit with a fan attached on the cooler, Evans water pump system with stock radiator an dual fan setup! hopefully that will keep temps under control! We will see!

My topend plan is tfs220's(ls2 style) with my Formato Ported fast intake setup! Will that be ok topend wise? I dont want all out power but i do want to have plenty of it! Thanks again guys

i woudn't start off with all that extra mumbo jumbo.

stock radiator, stock fans, stock water pump, perhaps a small oem type oil cooler if you must are all that will be necessary unless you have some unusual blockage to the airflow.

My topend plan is tfs220's(ls2 style) with my Formato Ported fast intake setup! Will that be ok topend wise? I dont want all out power but i do want to have plenty of it! Thanks again guys

This will work but is not optimum for an engine this size. Would provide a ton of low end torque but you are leaving a lot of potential hp on the table.

Big reason to go to sleeves is to get the 4.125 or larger bore. This allows use of LS7 based heads - an option might want to look into. Getting close to 600 rwhp in a DD is possible with the right head/cam/intake combination on a 427 - do some serious research here before you buy the top end.

Just curious what is your budget for this engine?

No expert but I've run my RED sleeved LS2 427 for about 1500 miles.

LS3 heads. LS3 intake. Manley forged rotating assembly.Smaller 230/236 cam.

It's in a 67 Nova.Was a LS1/4L60E combo. Pulled the LS1 and kept the 4L60E.

It does warm up faster than the typical LS swap. I have a LS3 73 Camaro and a LS6 98 Wrangler to compare.

Comes up to heat faster. Around town the fan kicks in sooner.Controlled by the ECM. As soon as it's back on the highway the temp comes back to the thermostat. No indication of overheating in town. Running a single 16" Spal fan. Largest Griffiin radiator that fit. 1.25 dual cooling tubes.

Torque is vvveerry impressive. Relearning what it means if you nail it at 50 mph.

Would not build a small cube LS again.

Is your car a daily driver or track setup? IM LOOKING FOR MORE DAILY DRIVER EXPERIENCES WITH THE SLEEVED BUILDS. I want to daily drive my 427 an go to the track once or twice! I just want to build a motor that size that i can drive alot ALOT ALOT of miles and enjoy! I dont want to break down or freshen it up yearly or every season as racers do! Im no longer a street racer but a motor of this size is a passion that i have that i want to build an be safe an secure with on driving out of town, around town, an play around with with ZERO ISSUES! Im not a ill informed youngster that is dreaming of doing a build of this type, ITS IN THE WORKS an i just want to cover everything!

HONESTLY I WANT TO GO OVERBOARD TO GIVE MYSELF A CUSHION IN THE REGARD TO LONGEVITY! Canton oil cooler kit with a fan attached on the cooler, Evans water pump system with stock radiator an dual fan setup! hopefully that will keep temps under control! We will see!

. your not getting the fact that its the same as a stock block but alot stronger,

I have over (start of playing)800-950RWHP( end of playing) on a sleeved 427 I DD the car for over a year 10k-15k miles went though 6 sets of tires 6 clutches gallons and gallons of 93 and methanol.
stock water pump, rad, hose, 1096 oil pump, stock AC, full leather inside with all stock parts . engine is running strong still could mostly likey drive for another 50k before rebuild but i want to change stuff so im pulling it down to changes stuff at 20k

No expert but I've run my RED sleeved LS2 427 for about 1500 miles.

LS3 heads. LS3 intake. Manley forged rotating assembly.Smaller 230/236 cam.

It's in a 67 Nova.Was a LS1/4L60E combo. Pulled the LS1 and kept the 4L60E.

It does warm up faster than the typical LS swap. I have a LS3 73 Camaro and a LS6 98 Wrangler to compare.

Comes up to heat faster. Around town the fan kicks in sooner.Controlled by the ECM. As soon as it's back on the highway the temp comes back to the thermostat. No indication of overheating in town. Running a single 16" Spal fan. Largest Griffiin radiator that fit. 1.25 dual cooling tubes.

Torque is vvveerry impressive. Relearning what it means if you nail it at 50 mph.

Would not build a small cube LS again.

THANX ALOT MAN! This is the type of info im looking for! Thanx everybody else also

This will work but is not optimum for an engine this size. Would provide a ton of low end torque but you are leaving a lot of potential hp on the table.

Big reason to go to sleeves is to get the 4.125 or larger bore. This allows use of LS7 based heads - an option might want to look into. Getting close to 600 rwhp in a DD is possible with the right head/cam/intake combination on a 427 - do some serious research here before you buy the top end.

Just curious what is your budget for this engine?

I have $4200 on hand at the moment! My car club will be putting in $100 a piece (14 guys) a month until the build is done! so i pretty much think im ok budget wise!

. your not getting the fact that its the same as a stock block but alot stronger,

I have over (start of playing)800-950RWHP( end of playing) on a sleeved 427 I DD the car for over a year 10k-15k miles went though 6 sets of tires 6 clutches gallons and gallons of 93 and methanol.
stock water pump, rad, hose, 1096 oil pump, stock AC, full leather inside with all stock parts . engine is running strong still could mostly likey drive for another 50k before rebuild but i want to change stuff so im pulling it down to changes stuff at 20k

Bigrich954RR, chill out dude! i FULLY understand that it is stronger internally. But thanx for the info!

I built a gto with a erl super deck 454 that made 600+ rwhp and now a new Camaro with a erl dry sleeve 427. Both run stock water pump, stock radiators, and meiling oil pumps. No problems so far with either.

Just over 2k miles into a dry sleeve'd ERL LS3 434ci...


1)COOLING: I run between 180 and under 200 in the summer heat, using O'reilly's universal premixed anti-freeze, Meziere elec. pump, and DeWitt's radiator. I just use the stock vapor tube for an LS3...nothing fancy there.

2)OILING:Precision Oil Pumps' Melling 10296 oil pump, here, with a DeWitt's modified GM oil cooler that runs thru their radiator. I see around 214 while cruising and around 224 after running it thru the gears at WOT, using 5w30 sig series amsoil.

3)Pistons: ERL spec'd out the rotating assembly, and it appears the pistons are Wiseco self units, looking over the documentation. They mentioned that they can mill the dome down some, to the static compression you wish to run, provided you know what your head gasket thickness and chamber volume are. I run ~12:1 ...I asked that they not mill the domes down for my build.

4)Vacuum: I'm not a fan of PCV systems, at all, on a performance build. At minimum, I would run a moroso catch can off the valve cover with a -10 or -12 hose. I ran that setup on the old 422ci that was in my car when I bought it, but it still had oil consumption issues/blow-by. The 434 sports a GZ Motorsports vacuum pump setup that I tweaked some to suit my preferences. I love it...GZ pump thread (http://ls1tech.com/forums/corvette-performance/1554416-revised-gz-motorsports-vacuum-pump-c5.html)

.......

As mentioned, you can run the stock water pump, radiator, etc... I just went overkill in some aspects, and I'm glad I did. Nothing wrong with an upgrade, but in some instances it's not absolutely necessary.

The big cube LS is a blast... the bottom end punch that carries all the way to the top end of the revs, the relatively simple/clean layout (compared to a stockish LS1 with a basic turbo or supercharger setup), and the stealthy appearance (big cubes in a small package). It's great. I'm glad I went this route and, as mentioned, I could never do a stock/small cube LS build after this.

Dont know if I missed it or not but are you going wet or dry sleeve? You can do either with the LS2 block.

Dont know if I missed it or not but are you going wet or dry sleeve? You can do either with the LS2 block.

I talked to the guys at ERL(really great guys) and im not sure if they told me dry for Ls2 or what. To be honest im just going to send in my ls2 as a core because ERL has sleeved blocks and shortblocks ready to go that are ls2s! The only time they truly wait for your block(UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED BY YOU) is when they want to do a superdeck 2 (I believe which is done with an ls1 block "IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY") because they already have blocks on hand.

Yep daily driven dry sleeve here. Got 35,000 miles on it so far.
Never any cooling issues, though I did have a lifter fail due to bad valvetrain setup by a sponsor on here.

Yep daily driven dry sleeve here. Got 35,000 miles on it so far.
Never any cooling issues, though I did have a lifter fail due to bad valvetrain setup by a sponsor on here.

Damn great info dude. Thanks, what vehicle do you have that motor in? I CANT WAIT!

I have $4200 on hand at the moment! My car club will be putting in $100 a piece (14 guys) a month until the build is done! so i pretty much think im ok budget wise!

you are getting $1400 a month from your club until you are done?? :huh: ...then why would you ever wanna be done. for a free 1400/month id never be done with the build

FWIW: My LS2 Darton sleeved 427 doesn't use any oil and the intake stays clean as a whistle.

I have $4200 on hand at the moment! My car club will be putting in $100 a piece (14 guys) a month until the build is done! so i pretty much think im ok budget wise!

Could you PM me these guy's phone numbers? I have a bridge and some beachfront Arizona property I don't need anymore.

My topend plan is tfs220's(ls2 style) with my Formato Ported fast intake setup! Will that be ok topend wise? I dont want all out power but i do want to have plenty of it! Thanks again guys

I would personally go with ported LS7 heads with a big bore stroker, but if you really want to stay with cathedral ports and if you are a Trick Flow fan, then I'd at least step up to the TFS 235 heads.

To be honest we thought thats what all car clubs do(PAY DUES), an with the way the economy is with performance parts it seems to be a good way to get everone one in the groups car up an running fast(without the wives missing anything)! Your wife can't complain about building a racecar with 25 bucks a week. Shit i think its a great idea!