JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

ive been reading aroudn and this forums is littered and twisted with all kinds of LS1 to LS6 head and cam threads but most with little or no helpful info due to the same regurgited info like "dont do that", "get a bigger cam", "its only 15hp", "port and polish", blah blah blah....
I want specific details and only those so we can get them out in the open cause ive noticed im not the only one thats trying to do this and not getting clear anwsers. hell, somthing as simple as the pushrods took me all week just to find the difference in length from the Z06 LS6 and LS1.

CURRENT SETUP
i have a STOCK 98 LS1 with a LS6 intake manifold, Longtube header and 3" catted ORY pipe, lid, 85mm maf, 80mm TB, stock A4 4L60E with 3200 Stall. stock 2.73 gears (that will be staying that way for now)
and frost tuned.
301RWHP / 314RWTQ 14 @ 100mph 1/4 mile

FUTURE PLANS
are to boost 550ish hp, but want to up the N/A for now until i get everything for the turbo build, hence why im sticking to stockish engine setup. not looking for rediculous amounts off head/cam power. just want to get my baseline up from 98LS1 standards to at least LS6 standard. plus want to freshen up a few items before boosting.


FRom what ive gathered from trying to sift and dig and read and painfully try to find the parts I need:
LS6 243/799 heads perferably with Z06 valves
+02 Z06 Cam
+01 centerbolt valve covers with bolts
coil brackets
hardened 7.4 pushrods for zo6 valved heads (sodium/hollowed setup)
hardened 7.425 pushrods for standard 243 heads
(push rod lenths are for the Z06 cam having the small base circle)
LS2 timing chain
LS2 lifter cups
LS7 lifters (optional?)
LS6 oil pump (optional?)
roller rocker trunion upgrade (optional?)
valve seats if using used heads
PAC or LS6 yellow springs if not on heads already
ARP head bolts (or studs)
Cometics head gaskets
water pump/timing cover gasket kit

did i cover everything i need? if i need somthing and missed it please tell me. lets remember that... NEED over want right now.

Also
more details needed:
LS7 lifters are direct replacments right? same size?
Does it make that much of a difference between head bolts and stud?
what thickness of cometics gasket to use with stock 243 heads with no milling?
If im using the 243 heads, im ok NOT using the stock graphite gaskets and using the cometics gasket right?
what power with just heads am i looking at?
what power with both heads am i looking at?


with that said, i WANT to use LS6 243/799 heads (maybe polished but porting no) and looking at the +02 Zo6 Cam for ease of install but will be willing to looking into mild cams and have been resarching cams that are N/a and boost friendly at the same time. looked into a few 224 ranged cams. im not building a 9sec track star.
but for now, lets keep this to the bases of LS6 head and LS6 Cam swap.

a few extra notes to get people up to speed or to remind them
98 LS1 Cam
198/209 .498/.497 LSA-119.45
base circle '97-'04 LS1 = 19.7mm / 0.776"

02+ LS6 cam
204/218 .551/.547 LSA-117.5
base circle '02 -'04 LS6 = 19.0mm / 0.748

joecar

You should get a new cam retainer plate (to prevent leakage) (requires new style countersink bolts) [ but I'm not sure how it fits the 1998 block ].

GM MLS head gaskets are cheaper and equally good, and they are thicker (something to think about since the 243 head has a smaller chamber volume which increases compression) [ but I'm not sure how they fit the 1998 block ].

New cam/crank sprockets might be good (the new cam sprocket has the cam reluctor "built-in", but you can ignore it, the sprocket still fits).

Do the oil pump (yours would be worn out).

Do the rocker trunion upgrade (avert a rocker bearing failure).

Do the lifters (yours would be worn out).

I would measure the required pushrod length just to be sure.

If you're not boosting for quite some time yet, then ARP headbolts are cheaper than studs.

2002-2004 LS6 cam spec: .551/.547 204/218 117.5 -2.5 (i.e. retarded, so lobes are at 120/115).

You will need some tuning (copy Z06/LS6 tables and then tune on top of these), but it should still run fair without.


[ I've been collecting the same parts and will be doing the same to a 2001 LS1, but you might beat me to it ]

SteveDoten@ARH

oil pump; the LS6 oil pump is used in almost every LS motor(non DOD) starting early 2000's

Find it on GMPP's catalog for $85

LS7 lifters are $130 everywhere, besides the DOD motors, this is the SAME lifter that GM will issue as a replacement for LS1/2/3/5/6/7/9.....and all truck motors(for those with DOD motors, 8 of the LS7 lifter are used, other 8 are $45/each)

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

Well if you are planning on boosting the car, 243's aren't the route you want to go. Go with a set of 317s to lower your compression ratio. The 243's will raise it by half a point.

Burken01

iTrader: (88)

The ls6 cam can be used for boost later, and will get you to your power goal of 550 hp easily..

Ls7 lifters is a go, ported ls6 oil pump too while your there.

243 heads could work if you wanted to run around 10-1 CR when your boosted, or more if you run e85.. but 317's is what i would get and are alot cheaper and will still net you power NA and will let you run higher boost later (its addicting)...

arp studs are a good investment because you can reuse them over and over, and they are better than head bolts because they clamp better (good with boost) and you can swap heads quicker in car and won't let coolant get into the holes...

the trunion upgrade is a good idea for peace of mind..

and don't buy pushrods till you have whatever heads your getting get decked or milled.. all heads are diffrent and need diff pushrods, you don't want the dreaded sewing machine sound coming from your valvetrain..

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

Agreed on the 317's. I know it's not what you want to hear but the 317's have the same ports as the ls6 heads and running 10.5 compression will severely limit your boost amount.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

yes i realize the 317s drop compression, but i also keep hearing that they dog the motor out at Low rpm out of boost conditions. im not boosting my motor over 10 psi, so the higher compression isnt really gonna be an issue. plus my boost setp is rear turbod and sticking to under 550HP. im going big front mounted intercooler with some water/meth to keep thing safe with a really good tune. plus, with higher compression, i can get more with less boost, and make out of boost drivability more fun.
the idea is to have a better starting base then a stock LS1 and from what ive been reading, the Z06 cam is boost friendly and can get better N/a power at the same time.

keep this in mind guys, im doing a rear mounted custom turbo setup with a T76 .81 On3 turbo. im sticking to near stock items to keep cost down. im also not a power monger so 10psi max is plenty for me and will get me to 550 just fine. im not doing 15 or 20 psi.
ill start enougher thread to ask about the 317s cause im still needing some clean info on those too.
lets keep this one to just the 243/799s please.

whatsa347

iTrader: (6)

317's are basically lower compression 243/799's and if you boost and don't have access to meth or e85 are the way to go honestly

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

i ran the EXACT same setup you are on my old trans am, but with ported and milled 241's. 10psi with over a 10:1 CR will make some good power, but you better always have a full tank of meth or you will be detonating like a ****. I would advise against that high of CR even with just running 10 psi. Especially with a turbo kit, its too easy to turn up the boost for some added power, something you wont be able to do with 243s as you will be held back unless you start running race fuel as well. You cant say you will just stay at 550 whp, no one ever does with any build really let alone a turbo kit.

batboy

iTrader: (6)

Get the GM MLS head gaskets, they seal up the best. If you have a few miles on the car, definitely get new lifter trays, lifters, oil pump, and LS2 timing chain. You'll also need a new pulley bolt as they are TTY, along with a new front seal, oil pump tube o-ring (sometimes they come with the oil pump), and timing cover gasket. Oh yeah, don't forget the antifreeze and you'll want to change oil too.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

i did not know about the pully bolts, good to know. also, would an underdrive pully be ok on a setup like this or shuold i stick with a stock crank pully?

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

Alot of people use the underdrives as have I. I decided not to this time as i would like all my accessories to work 100%. The best one out there is the ATI dampner IIRC (very expensive). A typical underdrive pulley like SLP or those like it will net you about 5 whp for 200 bucks, you lose some of your accessory power to alternator, a/c, etc and you will need smaller serpentine belts. I just bought an ARP pulley bolt and reused stock pulley. Until you are making BIG power, your stock pulley will work just fine.

LS1121

iTrader: (17)

Sounds good but, I wound up selling the 7.40 push rods and buying 7.350 Trick Flow push rods. Get a Good oil pump, I bought a Linginfelter oil pump it has two different springs so you can choose high or higher.

Look at my build below.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

although i have the truck alt mod, i think ill leave my crank pully alone for now. so i take it arp bolts for the pully bolts?

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

Yes and they are reusable. Check out Speed Inc or TSP for them. Speed Inc sells a house brand that the same as ARP but a bit cheaper.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

oh thats cool that they are reusable. definitly keep that in mind. the arp head bolts are also reusable too right? or is that just the studs?

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

both the studs and bolts are reusable. Gotta love ARP.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

Get the 243 heads. You can get whatever piston dish you need when you go forced induction. Plenty of fast vettes with them. What you don't hear about is plenty of fast n/a stock cube ls1s with awesome low end torque curves with 317s.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

Changing pistons are not in his plans.

If your dead set on running 10 to 1 compression with meth etc, still get the 317's and have them milled. You will spend way less and essentially have the same head as a 243.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

Bet it is when he boosts it

Point is... why go with a shitty compromise now for the same end result later as to going with the best setup no for the same results later.