adamantium

iTrader: (3)

Saw a thread about this and it answered part of my question but no entirely.

Im planning on tuning soon but my o2sensors keep giving me an SES light. At first i got a SES code for the pass side, so i just sucked it up and bought a brand new denso o2 now both o2s are throwing codes -_______-, so can i leave them turned off or do i need to return them on? What would be my best solution for this? Thanks in advance guys.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Yes you need to run them. This is what your PCM uses to determine fueling for the car.

If you are tuning then yes if you are in Open loop then you can run the wideband their to tune the car but it should not be a permanent solution.

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

What can i do? Ive spent $150 worth of o2 sensors in less than 6 months, piece of **** rock auto doesn't honor it because i put these o2s on my car instead of a vette.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Fix the problem.

sweet99ss

iTrader: (41)

You can't just put a wideband on one side of ur exhaust can you? You need to be reading both sides where they join correct?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

Buy an LM2, or a pair of LC1's
you can set up the outputs to be used as a narrowband output

I did it for years on my Camaro before ditching the stock pcm for the Holley EFI system

basically, the LM1/Lc1 wideband sensor can be setup to output a 0.100v~1.100v signal just like the stock o2's will do
then you have the benefits of a wideband's accuracy with the stock pcm.

98Camarod

iTrader: (43)

Agreed.

side note, why does it say that you're banned?

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

Yes where they join, i have an ORY itlll be exhaust.

Yup, its a given im trying to avoid wasting time and more money on more o2s. Thanks anyways.

Sounds too expensive and complicated.



Ill probably just end up going speed density.

joecar

The Innovate LC-1, LM-1, LM-2 have two outputs: wideband analog voltage and narrowband analog voltage (they also have a serial comms output, but that's beside the point)...

if you wire the narrowband output to an old O2S plug, you can plug it into your harness and the Innovate wideband will drive the PCM's O2S inputs... i.e. it produces the correct switching narrowband signal.

MUSTANGBRKR02

iTrader: (91)

Going speed density doesn't eliminate the o2's.

white01ss

iTrader: (37)

I prefer open loop with headers. When I still had my O2s they would average 14.7 after some work, but the AFR would swing from 13.2-15.7 all the time. If it's real hot or cold it would go even richer or leaner. Went OL and never looked back. Good luck.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

why would you prefer open loop?
as a long time tuner and somebody who helped develop tuning software, I can tell you that open loop on a daily driver is not a good idea in general.


why not fix the real issue...get a better seal on the O2's and get an o2 sensor with a better heating element

the problem isnt that theres too much heat, its usually that there isnt enough heat because of the nature of the headers
vehicles with catalytic converters typically dont suffer(or dont suffer *** badly) from that issue as the catalytic converter helps hold in the heat that the o2 sensor needs to operate correctly
also, a slip fit header doesnt seal correctly and you lose heat and exhaust from the seams...as small as it might seem...its still a loss of heat.
it gets exaggerated by stainless or aluminum exhaust as that is not as good at keeping heat inside the pipes..
get a coated header and suddenly the problem goes away as the heat is help in the exhaust longer

the stock O2 sensors rely on exhaust heat to operate properly

exodus_gs1

iTrader: (3)

^^^ mind=blown

I had no idea that heat had anything to do with it. Ha learn something new everyday.
So I also have wanted to do a wideband, so I ask do I just buy a wideband kit and put it in my front o2's? I don't think I have rear o2's but also haven't been under there to look. I kind of understand the using a wideband setup to run as a stock one but better accuracy. But what about still using it as a wideband why can't he if he has one on both sides? I must be missing something im sure

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

yes, you can use a wideband sensor/controller and have it output to the stock pcm as a narrowband... I did this for almost a year

Buy an LM2
set up both outputs to do 0.100v~1.100 volts with the stoich value at .450, or 500, or 550, or whatever it ends up being.. you can set teh low value to 100mv and just push the high vale until the stoic crossing point ends up at 450mv
in your tune, make sure you set the o2 switch points to that value, whatever it may be

the output of the LM2 will connect to the stock o2 connectors...just 2 wires.. the High side and the low side, not the ground or the power

your LM2 ground will go to the battery, your LM2 power will go to a key on hot while cranking 12v source

you can take the output of the wideband that is going to your pcm, and split it to hp tuners...Just the high side, the low side only goes to the o2 sensor connector




and for people who dont understand high/low side... that the signal output and the signal ground



all of this will work with any wideband that you can set the output to be a certain voltage range
I just used the LM2 in my example because its a reasonably priced wideband with a dual sensor option and each sensor has its own set of outputs.

Ran my car for about a year with an LM2 wideband using it to simulate a narrowband

joecar

If you're using the LM-2 to drive both narrowband signals, you will need the dual channel version and 2 wideband sensors.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

yup

MontecarloDrag

iTrader: (3)

If you have headers, the O2 may be too cold. Check if you can weld a bung closer to the engine.
I have fixed a few this way

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

and FYI... Speed Density has nothing to do with the O2's...
its whether you use the MAF or not....
I think you were thinking of open loop...which I highly recommend against


its also not expensive or complicated...
LM2 dual channel and 2 sensors
wire signal wires to the o2 sensor connectors, wire power and ground to 12v key on source and ground to the battery...Very simple

white01ss

iTrader: (37)

Why not open loop? I and many others have run OL for years in all types of weather conditions and don't see a problem. Before the advent of emissions controls in the seventies all the millions of cars in the world were open loop.

An open loop car runs smoother and more consistently than with the O2s. Plus you don't have to worry a sensor going bad and making the car run poorly. And the exhaust sound when cruising is an even exhaust note, unlike the oscillating high tone to low tone as the O2s are switching rich to lean, rich to lean...

Another benefit is it's free! You don't need dual widebands ($400) or to coat your headers ($250). That $650 you save can be spent on more worthwhile things.

Dan

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

first off, a Carburetor is a lot more forgiving than Fuel injection is, and its also a lot less consistent than Fuel Injection...
there were just as many(if not more) problems, its just back then...a lot more people know how to work on their cars and a lot more maintenance had to be done to keep it running well...I know... I've owned several carbureted cars

It also depends on what you consider "a problem"
while you think there may not be a problem, you should think about the ones you cant see. engine wear and tear is greater on an open loop car because its unable to correct for changing conditions..theres a big difference tearing down a 100,000 mile motor that has closed loop control vs one that does not.

and I'll take it you've never heard Blower oscilation on a carb'd car with an 8-71 or a 10-71....there are some things you cannot fix with a carburetor


If you hear an oscilating note... then something is not correct... either you have a poor tune, or you have a part that has gone south of what its supposed to do. Millions of EFI cars on the road without an "oscilation"
Runs smoother is a totally different opinion....depends on what your definition of smooth is....

and you are right, if a sensor fails, things tend to not run correctly(and that goes for any sensor on the car)
but you also cant get the Fuel mileage with a Carburetor that you can with Fuel injection...it was half the reason for the industry switching from Carb to EFI



I'll give you points on the Free99.....