TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i was setting up to check P2V on my LS2 and decided to check the degree on my cam for the hell of it. it came out to 100. i dont have my cam card in front of me but it should be 106 to 110 area....the cam is a howards 236/242 .612/.612 110 LSA. i dont know if it has any advance ground into it but i know 100 is not right. the cam is sitting dot to dot. how much degree change should I see by moving it over 1 tooth?

this is the closest thing to a cam card that i can find. anyone know what it should measure?

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

your avatar is fucken hilarious!!!

What do you mean it came out to 100? what came out to 100? the ICL?
If you think your cam has a 110LSA and you are measuring 100 ICL then you are advanced 10*. off the top of my head without doing the math i think a tooth is worth 16*
what timing set do you have?

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

it's the stock LS2 timing set put dot to dot. i found the cam card online. my cam is supposed to be a 110+4 LSA which would give me a 106 ICL. my measurements are showing 100 and it is definately dot to dot. i moved the cam gear one tooth and it dropped to 85ish.

wouldnt it be 6* retarded if it's at 100 and should be at 106? is a 6* difference big enough to call up howards and ask what the heck is up?

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

106 ICL on a 110LSA would be 4* advanced. 100 ICL on a 110 LSA would be 10* advanced. I personally have never advanced a cam that much, maybe someone else has and can chim in. If you went from 100 to 85ish by moving a tooth then one tooth is worth 15ish -16*.

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

to change the camshaft timing you either need an adjustable timing set or offset bushings.
also the more the camshaft is advanced the sooner the valve events take place. so at 10* advance your intake valve will be opening 10* sooner will also be closing 10* sooner (the LSA doesn't change just the ICL and ECL) This may cause some cylinder pressure issues (low compression test numbers) or even PTV issues if clearances are tight.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i dont care to try and advance it or anything...i want it to line up the way it was supposed to. i would be fine with anything in the 105-107 range. this thing is 6* off. so basically i have to get an adjustable timing set to get this thing where it belongs...is this a common problem with howards cams?

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

if it is supposed to be cut with a 106 ICL (built into the cam) and its actually cut with a 100 ICL I would say that is way off and not the norm by any means. Good example of why camshafts should always be degreed. If its a new camshaft i would send it back to the manufacture and get a new one that matches its cam card. If you dont have that option or dont want to go that route then buy an adjustable timing set and install it at 106 ICL. If at dot to dot you are 6* too advanced, then you would need to retard the new adjustable timing gear 6*. that would put you right back at 106ICL.

JS01

iTrader: (10)

It can and does happen, with any brand of cam. The cam itself might not be off the full 6 degrees, but the crank might be off 2, the cam off 2, and timing set off 2. or any combination of the above, etc. If you are sure you checked the ICL correctly and it is really 100 I would definitely try and retard it back to 106 or so or your top end power will suffer somewhat. 10 degrees advanced is quite alot.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i just dont see how it can be THAT common. wouldnt a T-rex sized cam run into T2V issues if the ICL was off by that much? tons of guys just toss them in dot to dot and button them up.

the combo is a trickflow 225 headed ls2 with a single plane intake and 4600 stall so i need it all up top lol. what's the cheapest way of retarding the cam. the cam is new, but i am the 2nd owner. i doubt they will do anything for me because of that.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

does it matter where i measure from? i measured from the tip of the pushrod but an article on the comp cams website says to do it from the spring retainer. wouldnt the rocker ratios mess with the numbers when doing it from the spring retainer??

JS01

iTrader: (10)

I didn't meant to say it was common but it you come across it sometimes especially when you've degreed alot of cams. Most folks never degree their stuff so they never know. NO one is perfect, even the cam companies let stuff slip out occasionally. As for the big cam stock bottom end deals, they do run into P2V issues when the cams are off but most dont know until its too late or the engine gets tore down for a rebuild or what have you, I can't tell you the number of stock LS1's with TREX or MS4 cams I've torn down with eyebrows on the pistons. As for checking it on the retainer just divide your measurements by the rocker ratio but you will have to use a solid roller or modified lifter then unless you put a checking spring on.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

Exactly how are you setting things up? Do you have a solid lifter or using a hydraulic?

The best way I have found to degree the cam is to use a solid lifter and a dial indicator with a long enough adapter to land in the lifter cup/plunger. This will eliminate any variance with the push rod or lifter changing on you.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

I was setting up to check the P2V so it has checker springs, and solid lifters. i'm using a 11" wheel. setting it to TDC using a piston stop that goes through the plug hole. i just bend the coat hanger until i get the same exact number on both sides. after finding TDC i set the dial indicator on top of a pushrod and turn the motor over until it reaches max lift and set the indicator to zero. then i go forward and backwords to .050 and note what the degree wheel says. when checking BTDC i run past the .050 mark and come back to it to account for timing chain slack.

add those numbers and divide by 2.

G Engines

You could check your intake event (The degree when the cam opens and closes) this will tell you if your as far off as your wheel says it may be.

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i'm guessing that is just the degree that my intake valve begins to open? if so 70* BTDC

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i just called up howards cams. they picked up on the first ring and told me to send that cam back to them ASAP. i said it wasnt a big deal as i wasnt in any kind of huge hurry and he said "i am. i dont like to see incorrect parts and i want to fix this ASAP." Definately the kind of customer service everyone should strive to provide. just wanted to give credit where it was due!

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

howards called today and said they measured the cam and i was correct. they are grinding a new one and sending it my way. cant beat a company with great customer service.

litle88

iTrader: (20)

Nice!

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

I agree 100%. Everyone makes mistakes but not every one is man enough to own the mistake and make it right. Awesome to hear

TXsilverado

iTrader: (18)

i must admit i wasnt sure what to expect when calling. i was prepared for them to ask me to buy a degree kit, then i almost expected them to come up with a BS excuse of why it was off.

they did not ask how i measured...basically he said send it back asap. once in their hands they measured and called and admitted that it was ground wrong. apologised and said it should have been caught in QC and will have a new one in route on friday. every company will screw up from time to time. it's how they handle the screw ups that get my business.