AI 275CC heads/Cam combo on my LS3
08-13-2012, 12:37 PM
#1
AI 275CC heads/Cam combo on my LS3 I don't know why I didn't make a thread like this over here a while ago. I've got a 2010 Camaro SS M6, last year with bolt on's and tuning it did 425/418 hp/tq to the tires. Headers, exhaust, cold air intake. I was impressed with how it ran, LS3's are pretty good performers right out of the box.
Over the winter I talked to Phil at AI about a heads/cam setup using my original castings. After some discussions, we decided to go with their 275CC program on my heads (room to grow into a larger displacement bottom end some day) and a mild cam, 226/234 0.600/0.600 114 LSA 4 degrees of advance.
Phil was great to deal with, prompt with e-mails, even after receiving my heads and my money...I've had problems with other vendors in the past, and I'm always nervous sending out money, but Phil kept my mind at ease, updating me along the way, giving an anticipated schedule for when my heads would get on his machine and when the cam would be ground and shipped and inspected.
In the background, I also ordered a FAST 102 intake, which is ported, and a NW102mm drive by wire TB (the brand new one as they were having issues sucking closed on 700+ rwhp setups with the old design, and I don't want to run into that in a few years).
With the same headers/exhaust and cold air intake setup, I managed to squeak 499 RWHP and 462 RWTQ out of the car. I lost absolutely NO torque down low (as you can see in the dyno chart)...which makes the car so much fun to drive, and it just comes on so strong up top...it's really a fantastic street setup.
I know the smoothing is set to 0. I don't have a screen shot of it set to 4 or 5 but when it's set there, the peaks changed to 494/459. I tune the car myself. You'll see the picture says New England Dyno, I was tuning another car there and thought "why not strap mine down and finish it too".
I think a bigger cam would probably bring another 20 HP out of the car, maybe more...but I wanted something mild...my car idles at 775 RPM with stable fuel trims...can't really beat that.
[youtube]ydURXwdlcIQ[/youtube]
I guess if you're looking to make 500 to the tires with an LS3 and a stick...you can do it with just a cam...but if you want something more mellow like I did for what I consider a no compromises daily driver (140 miles a day with all the creature comforts a 2SS has, and a sunroof) AI is definitely an option worth looking into. I'm thrilled with the work they did.
Over the winter I talked to Phil at AI about a heads/cam setup using my original castings. After some discussions, we decided to go with their 275CC program on my heads (room to grow into a larger displacement bottom end some day) and a mild cam, 226/234 0.600/0.600 114 LSA 4 degrees of advance.
Phil was great to deal with, prompt with e-mails, even after receiving my heads and my money...I've had problems with other vendors in the past, and I'm always nervous sending out money, but Phil kept my mind at ease, updating me along the way, giving an anticipated schedule for when my heads would get on his machine and when the cam would be ground and shipped and inspected.
In the background, I also ordered a FAST 102 intake, which is ported, and a NW102mm drive by wire TB (the brand new one as they were having issues sucking closed on 700+ rwhp setups with the old design, and I don't want to run into that in a few years).
With the same headers/exhaust and cold air intake setup, I managed to squeak 499 RWHP and 462 RWTQ out of the car. I lost absolutely NO torque down low (as you can see in the dyno chart)...which makes the car so much fun to drive, and it just comes on so strong up top...it's really a fantastic street setup.
I know the smoothing is set to 0. I don't have a screen shot of it set to 4 or 5 but when it's set there, the peaks changed to 494/459. I tune the car myself. You'll see the picture says New England Dyno, I was tuning another car there and thought "why not strap mine down and finish it too".
I think a bigger cam would probably bring another 20 HP out of the car, maybe more...but I wanted something mild...my car idles at 775 RPM with stable fuel trims...can't really beat that.
[youtube]ydURXwdlcIQ[/youtube]
I guess if you're looking to make 500 to the tires with an LS3 and a stick...you can do it with just a cam...but if you want something more mellow like I did for what I consider a no compromises daily driver (140 miles a day with all the creature comforts a 2SS has, and a sunroof) AI is definitely an option worth looking into. I'm thrilled with the work they did.
08-13-2012, 07:01 PM
#5
Specific Heads: These are the basic head for LS3 the OP got a modified version of this head
Do a search on here about Advanced Induction (AI), you will hear nothing but positive things. You can't go wrong with their heads/cam setups, Phil and Ron are great to deal with...no BS, they will only sell you the parts you need to be successful.
Here is a link to one of the sets of heads I had from them:Back to Back Dyno
08-13-2012, 09:55 PM
#6
pharmd pretty much covered it, but as he mentioned on his link, I went with the 275cc heads on my setup. LS3 heads are actually 821's not 823's, seen here http://www.advancedinduction.com/LSX...cGM821Head.php
Turnaround time for Phil to get it all done for me was a few weeks...to be honest I don't remember exactly how long they had my heads but they were upfront and honest about it, and I specifically said it was no big deal if they had a racer who needed his heads done first, so long as I had mine back in time for when they cleaned the salt off the New England roads...and he certainly helped me meet that goal easily.
Out the door I think I paid $1690 for all the head/valve work including new valve seals, and the cam, but that didn't initially include pushrods, which ran me another $105. Pushrods were necessary because the heads are decked and the cam is ground on a different base circle than stock.
After that, I went with a C5-R timing chain from Katech, and a new cam sprocket for an LS7 ZO6 from GM. There were some other odd's and ends I had to buy still, like new OEM head gaskets, and I chose to also replace all the timing cover related gaskets, and convert to the LS2/7/9 timing chain dampener, re-used my stock unmodified oil pump...I did all the labor on the car myself...like I told Phil, if I knew what the heads needed to look like, I'd have ported them myself too...I am an engineer for a fairly high end line of CNC machinery...I just don't have a clue what the ports/chambers should look like in the first place.
I'll post some pics of the heads soon. Phil gave me his permission, I just don't remember where I saved them, and I can't go back and take any now as the car is assembled and driving.
Turnaround time for Phil to get it all done for me was a few weeks...to be honest I don't remember exactly how long they had my heads but they were upfront and honest about it, and I specifically said it was no big deal if they had a racer who needed his heads done first, so long as I had mine back in time for when they cleaned the salt off the New England roads...and he certainly helped me meet that goal easily.
Out the door I think I paid $1690 for all the head/valve work including new valve seals, and the cam, but that didn't initially include pushrods, which ran me another $105. Pushrods were necessary because the heads are decked and the cam is ground on a different base circle than stock.
After that, I went with a C5-R timing chain from Katech, and a new cam sprocket for an LS7 ZO6 from GM. There were some other odd's and ends I had to buy still, like new OEM head gaskets, and I chose to also replace all the timing cover related gaskets, and convert to the LS2/7/9 timing chain dampener, re-used my stock unmodified oil pump...I did all the labor on the car myself...like I told Phil, if I knew what the heads needed to look like, I'd have ported them myself too...I am an engineer for a fairly high end line of CNC machinery...I just don't have a clue what the ports/chambers should look like in the first place.
I'll post some pics of the heads soon. Phil gave me his permission, I just don't remember where I saved them, and I can't go back and take any now as the car is assembled and driving.
08-14-2012, 07:49 AM
#7
Here are some pictures of the heads. I had a hard time getting my camera to focus, but the machine work is really nice, you'll notice they broke every edge (with the CNC, not with their hands) on the heads including around the cast in coolant jackets on the head deck. Little things like that speak for their attention to detail with the entire design/machining process.
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08-14-2012, 09:25 PM
#10
Some people like to complain that as cast areas are left...you can see them in the pictures...they transition into the machining beautifully...and they work. I haven't seen another LS3 make these numbers without a lot more cam...and I've yet to see one setup with a lot more cam lose nothing over stock down low either. Phil told me to expect that, and I am fine with it.
Last edited by Mike454SS; 08-15-2012 at 07:59 AM.
08-15-2012, 07:25 AM
#11
Some people like to complain that as cast areas are left...you can see them in the pictures...they transition into the machining beautifully...and they work. I haven't seen another LS3 make these numbers without a lot more cam...and I've yet to see one setup with a lot more cam lose nothing over stock down low either. Phil told me to expect that, and I am fine with it.
08-15-2012, 12:23 PM
#14
Yeah...a 416 or bigger bottom end is in this cars future, maybe a year or 2 away still though...but at that time, I know the heads are ready to rock, and should support a LOT of power.
Are your heads 821's or 823's? More curious than anything else.
Are your heads 821's or 823's? More curious than anything else.
08-21-2012, 03:43 PM
#16
I just did a VERY similar build. We are running the same head with a 4* larger cam on a 113. I am getting it on my dyno with the last couple mods on Saturday. What exact CAI and complete exhaust system are you running? Did you have the heads milled at all and are you running the stock head gasket? We were up a little on hp but down a little on tq. We are running through cat's and stock mufflers right now with a 90mm TB on a 102. Hopeing to see 510/460rw but not sure we are going to get there.
09-12-2012, 08:36 PM
#17
I just did a VERY similar build. We are running the same head with a 4* larger cam on a 113. I am getting it on my dyno with the last couple mods on Saturday. What exact CAI and complete exhaust system are you running? Did you have the heads milled at all and are you running the stock head gasket? We were up a little on hp but down a little on tq. We are running through cat's and stock mufflers right now with a 90mm TB on a 102. Hopeing to see 510/460rw but not sure we are going to get there.
I was running a Vararam, but I was unimpressed with it. The car has a Halltech cold air intake on it that I got from Katech, a NW 102 TB, and ported FAST102.
The complete exhaust is Kooks 1.875" primaries into full 3" pipe, with an X pipe and 3" dynomax bullet mufflers. Originally the Kooks cat extension pipes necked down to 2.5" and then came back up to 3, but the cats failed (the woven sheetmetal media inside started seperating and folding in on itself) after 15-20k miles, so I took them and the 2.5" pipe out, and it's just 3" right off the headers the whole way back.
