Automotive News, Media & Press - Is GM in trouble again?

Something about learning from mistakes...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/

Interesting:

1 segment. Isn't Impala on the same architecture, but stretched, giving you effectively two players.

Data points from the 60's, when most foreign cars were absent.

Malibu Eco. Not even reeally a full hybrid, cheaper price point than other hybrids. Tested against non hybrid cars.

Not really sure there is enough there to make a blanket statement.

It is almost like saying becasue VW does not have a full size truck, that they are doomed.

The problem was that the Malibu Eco didn't get any better gas mileage than the regular cars it was tested against, and wasn't good enough in other areas. Did you read the article, or just skim it?

The Ford Fusion is the best car in that class and the best value. That is the bread and butter car. They need to get a clue and make that target car great. Since it is the best seller, it has the most effect on their overall brand reputation.

in trouble again? if it was not so sad it would be funny.


as much as a supporter ive been of GM theres times i could care less if they go away forever.

Not surprised. I anticipated the slide to continue when their first financials were being released that showed the profitability of a company fresh out of bankruptcy was quite low

Politics at its finest.

Forbes - Leadership, Not Another Bailout, Will Fix GM (And No, It Is Not Going Bankrupt) (http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/16/leadership-not-another-bailout-will-fix-general-motors/)

Also a good read :nod:

They only invested $85B into GM, but GAVE over $800B of US TAX MONEY to INTERNATIONAL banks and they want to ask why GM is struggling in a doomed economy??? fucking traitors in office need to be imprisoned

lol but i thought once we bailed out gm itd be lollipops and rainbows

A few years ago I had a chance to ride in a Malibu, a Accord and a my ex gf had a Camery. To me the Malibu was far nicer. It and the accord were rentals. The Accord felt rough, rode rough, and had less power. I could not stand riding in the her Camery. The interior in it was decent but the car was gutless. It felt like I was driving a appliance not a car. I don't know how either of those could be chosen over the Malibu. The Malibu handled great and was a much better looking car imo.

I think part of the problem is the press. When I go drive these cars back to back I rarely see it the way the mags do.

A few years ago I had a chance to ride in a Malibu, a Accord and a my ex gf had a Camery. To me the Malibu was far nicer. It and the accord were rentals. The Accord felt rough, rode rough, and had less power. I could not stand riding in the her Camery. The interior in it was decent but the car was gutless. It felt like I was driving a appliance not a car. I don't know how either of those could be chosen over the Malibu. The Malibu handled great and was a much better looking car imo.

I think part of the problem is the press. When I go drive these cars back to back I rarely see it the way the mags do.


This times a billion.

I think the shitty attitude of the people at the GM dealerships and their bullshit him-hawing over warranty work with do more to make people not buy GM cars than the magazine bias. I'll never buy another new GM car after all the bullshit I have had to put up with at the dealership about warranty work. Even when I was shopping I wanted to bitch slap the finance manager, I didn't even HAVE to finance the thing and told him if it was such a big deal I would just pay cash.

Dealership level issues are minuscule when your looking at earning reports and market share percentages, but they aren't so minuscule when you stop and think that this is what leaves impressions with people in the real world and the experience is what they are going to remember when it comes time for another vehicle, NOT the latest magazine articles or JD Power reviews.

I also think their commercials could use some work, to convince people that they are better than they used to be. But, no matter how good your commercials are they can only get the consumers to the dealerships, the dealership itself has to make the person want to spend the money; and from my experience... the ones in this area fail miserably.

I guess this is why the Chinese market is so important to GM, since they buy more cars than the US does I guess they don't give a shit about us.

It's probably better to read Lutz's rebuttal.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/08/17/chicken-littles-second-gm-bankruptcy-the-gold-medal-for-silly-op-ed-pieces/

The problem was that the Malibu Eco didn't get any better gas mileage than the regular cars it was tested against, and wasn't good enough in other areas. Did you read the article, or just skim it?

I read it. My point is that his example is based on staistical noise. He is making an assumption based on one car, in one test. LAst years quarter numbers were skewed by Japanese production shutdowns. Really not that great of a study.

I read it. My point is that his example is based on staistical noise. He is making an assumption based on one car, in one test. LAst years quarter numbers were skewed by Japanese production shutdowns. Really not that great of a study.

Not to mention less brands to contribute to market share percentages or earnings figures.

YOu could basically subsitute Tundra/Titan into ths article, against Silverado/F-Series/Ram. By his logic Nissan and or Toyota would be doomed to failure.

He also talks about GM loosing money on the Opel subsidiary but what he fails to make light of in the article would be the fact that every Japanese, Korean, and other US auto manufacture is also loosing money in the Europeans markets not solely because of the holy awesome and bad ass Passat (I'm being sarcastic, I've driven lots of VW's and hated almost everyone of them), but because of the current European economy.

Every auto maker is going to be shedding jobs in Europe to cover their payroll and expenses in the European market. So its not just GM that is struggling in that area of the globe.

GM has the strongest foothold in the Chinese market out of almost anyone. So how does he expect that to play out with the others struggling for market share there while everyone is reeling from the crumbling Euro market?

It's probably better to read Lutz's rebuttal.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/08/17/chicken-littles-second-gm-bankruptcy-the-gold-medal-for-silly-op-ed-pieces/

Man, I love it when Bob comes in and lays the hammer down.

It's probably better to read Lutz's rebuttal.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/08/17/chicken-littles-second-gm-bankruptcy-the-gold-medal-for-silly-op-ed-pieces/

Cliffs:

Woodhill is a moron.

I've wondered about the share prices but short term means very little vs long term, plus I'm no market analyst. At the same time a lot of market analysts are stupid anyway.

A friend of mine got a new Malibu Eco recently and I rode in it a couple of weeks ago, I am VERY impressed with how solid and quiet it is, real comfortable ride too.

On a trip to Maryland last month he got over 44mpg :eek: averaging over 70mph and the car/engine still isn't even fully broken in yet (low miles). :nod:

GM being in trouble wouldn't surprise me. Their passenger line of vehicles is still a complete joke in comparison to their competitors. The only thing GM makes that's still appealing to the public are their trucks and performance cars. Unfortunately trucks and performance cars alone won't keep a company alive.

Of course there's always the rental car lots to buy up all their bland shit they keep pumping out every year. :)

GM being in trouble wouldn't surprise me. Their passenger line of vehicles is still a complete joke in comparison to their competitors. The only thing GM makes that's still appealing to the public are their trucks and performance cars. Unfortunately trucks and performance cars alone won't keep a company alive.

Of course there's always the rental car lots to buy up all their bland shit they keep pumping out every year. :)

Umm...wat? Almost every single one of their passenger vehicles is newish design that is, at least, comparable to the rest of the vehicles in it's class, if not one of the best. The only real weak spot is the Impala, but it has an all new design coming very soon.

The Equinox/Terrain twins aren't that great in their class and have ho-hum consumer reviews from what I've seen, but they're selling like hotcakes in my area at least.

The Buck lineup are all great cars...their direct competition is kind of vague (higher class than your normal family sedans, but not enough car for the likes of the true luxury/sport brands) However Cadillac has most of the latter covered very well.

GM being in trouble wouldn't surprise me. Their passenger line of vehicles is still a complete joke in comparison to their competitors. The only thing GM makes that's still appealing to the public are their trucks and performance cars. Unfortunately trucks and performance cars alone won't keep a company alive.

Of course there's always the rental car lots to buy up all their bland shit they keep pumping out every year. :)

chevy cruzes are good cars and solid sellers. GM had a solid month in june so who knows.




http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/07/gm-june-2012-sales-up-16-percent-to-248750-units-by-the-numbers/

Umm...wat? Almost every single one of their passenger vehicles is newish design that is, at least, comparable to the rest of the vehicles in it's class, if not one of the best. The only real weak spot is the Impala, but it has an all new design coming very soon.

The Equinox/Terrain twins aren't that great in their class and have ho-hum consumer reviews from what I've seen, but they're selling like hotcakes in my area at least.

The Buick lineup are all great cars...their direct competition is kind of vague (higher class than your normal family sedans, but not enough car for the likes of the true luxury/sport brands) However Cadillac has most of the latter covered very well.Exactly. :nod:

A few years ago I had a chance to ride in a Malibu, a Accord and a my ex gf had a Camery. To me the Malibu was far nicer. It and the accord were rentals. The Accord felt rough, rode rough, and had less power. I could not stand riding in the her Camery. The interior in it was decent but the car was gutless. It felt like I was driving a appliance not a car. I don't know how either of those could be chosen over the Malibu. The Malibu handled great and was a much better looking car imo.

I think part of the problem is the press. When I go drive these cars back to back I rarely see it the way the mags do.



We're talking about today's cars. Sure the 2008 Camry was so so. But my wife's 2012 Camry SE poops all over the current Mali and Impala. I also daily drive 2009 Nissan Altima and wish I had a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 Ecoboost.

If GM ever does die, I hope Ford buys the corvette brand and slaps a 3.7 twin turbo in it.

If GM ever does die, I hope Ford buys the corvette brand and slaps a 3.7 twin turbo in it.

You WANT to see a V6 powered Ford Corvette? I've read a lot of dumb shit on the internet, but you just eclipsed everything else. Do us all a favor - don't have kids.

You WANT to see a V6 powered Ford Corvette? I've read a lot of dumb shit on the internet, but you just eclipsed everything else. Do us all a favor - don't have kids.


:funny: oh man, that may be sig worthy

We're talking about today's cars. Sure the 2008 Camry was so so. But my wife's 2012 Camry SE poops all over the current Mali and Impala. I also daily drive 2009 Nissan Altima and wish I had a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 Ecoboost.

If GM ever does die, I hope Ford buys the corvette brand and slaps a 3.7 twin turbo in it.

They were all comparable same year cars. Now you want to compare the brand new latest greatest from toyankmyjunk. Figures, coming from someone that wants a ford v6 in a vette. From what I could tell the toyota needed a hell of a improve in the handleing and power department just to carry the Malibue's groceries.

If GM ever does die, I hope Ford buys the corvette brand and slaps a 3.7 twin turbo in it.

So we could have a heavier, bigger, more complex/expensive Corvette that makes less power, get comparable gas mileage and sounds worse?
Good idea.

I was just trolling and being a punk.

That comment was based on rumors. I've heard we could see a V6 turbo as an option some day.

I'm saving for either a 2013 Focus ST or the 2015 50th Mustang. Can't wait to see it.

So we could have a heavier, bigger, more complex/expensive Corvette that makes less power, get comparable gas mileage and sounds worse?
Good idea.

I'll respond to you.


Lighter? I know the LS engine is lighter the the 5.0 Coyota engine but at least Ford can design a lighter chassis with more trunk and rear seat space.

I'm sure a 3.7 V6 turbo can be designed lighter than a 5.7 OHV engine.

Apparently small turbo engines are in. Look at Ford and now look at GM. Who is getting negative news with there financials and market share? GM.

F-150 is the number one sold pick-up. The 3.5 Ecoboost is the most purchased engine option.
Ford owners are in open arms over smaller engines with turbo's. A v6 turbo Vette could be a breathe of fresh air.

I'm sure a 3.7 V6 turbo can be designed lighter than a 5.7 OHV engine.Possibly, but not likely.
DOHC 24 valve V6 with turbocharger, intercooler(s) and all of the associated turbo/intercooler plumbing versus compact naturally aspirated OHV V8, I dunno.
And Corvettes aren't 5.7L any more, although I suppose that the base C7 could be 5.7L once again. :)

I'll respond to you.

Lighter? I know the LS engine is lighter the the 5.0 Coyota engine but at least Ford can design a lighter chassis with more trunk and rear seat space.

Trolling again?
Gm used a sedan chassis for the camaro we all know this, get over it.
Ford finally made a respectable mustang, and now the Camaro has some actual competition, I see this as a good thing.


I'm sure a 3.7 V6 turbo can be designed lighter than a 5.7 OHV engine.

Unlikely. The OHC engine itself will likely be the same weight or more (and bigger in size) as an LS engine (roughly 400lbs), then add the turbo(s), intercooler and all the piping...


Apparently small turbo engines are in. Look at Ford and now look at GM. Who is getting negative news with there financials and market share? GM.

And this has everything to do with a turbo V6 right? Really? Really?


F-150 is the number one sold pick-up. The 3.5 Ecoboost is the most purchased engine option.
Ford owners are in open arms over smaller engines with turbo's.

Cool story bro.
Those are trucks, not purpose built sports cars. If I were to buy a new F150 Id likely go with the ecoboost as well, but only because their V8 is nothing special, and the ecoboost does the same thing except with better gas mileage. - I wouldn't care about engine size/weight/sound with a work truck...

A v6 turbo Vette could be a breathe of fresh air.
Or an utter failure. I don't see the point of adding weight, size, cost and complexity for no power gains(and a much worse exhaust note) ,only to be "different".

Possibly, but not likely.
DOHC 24 valve V6 with turbocharger, intercooler(s) and all of the associated turbo/intercooler plumbing versus compact naturally aspirated OHV V8, I dunno.
And Corvettes aren't 5.7L any more, although I suppose that the base C7 could be 5.7L once again. :)

The 5.0 Coyote is only 15lbs heavier than the LS3 with 32 valves, 4 cams instead of one, etc. I'm not sure what the 3.7 weighs (is it aluminum even?), but they could easily make it lighter if the 5.0 is only 15lbs more than the LS3.

GM really needs to get the ball rolling on some more interesting cars. Aside from the Corvette and Camaro, I never hear anyone talking about how good the new Chevy XXXX is.

The 5.0 Coyote is only 15lbs heavier than the LS3 with 32 valves, 4 cams instead of one, etc. I'm not sure what the 3.7 weighs (is it aluminum even?), but they could easily make it lighter if the 5.0 is only 15lbs more than the LS3.

GM really needs to get the ball rolling on some more interesting cars. Aside from the Corvette and Camaro, I never hear anyone talking about how good the new Chevy XXXX is.

cruze, sonic and volt seem to be highly regarded.

The Cruze and Sonic are good, but neither is segment-leading...which is what GM needs right now.

The 5.0 Coyote is only 15lbs heavier than the LS3 with 32 valves, 4 cams instead of one, etc. I'm not sure what the 3.7 weighs (is it aluminum even?), but they could easily make it lighter if the 5.0 is only 15lbs more than the LS3.

Apples to oranges.
undressed vs undressed the LS3 is closer to being 100lbs lighter than the coyotee: (444lbs vs 357lbs)
-looks like Ford is weighing theirs with no flywheel, exhaust manifolds, starter or anything else while GM's crate engines come with all that (and are included in the weight)
http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/2012_BOSS_302_5_0L_444HP_CRATE_ENGINE_p/m-6007-m50b.htm
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-tech-performance/2586029-ls2-ls3-and-ls7-weight-of-full-assembled-engine.html

^^^^This is more accurate. I have weighed aluminum 4.6's in race trim vs ls in race trim.

Possibly, but not likely.
DOHC 24 valve V6 with turbocharger, intercooler(s) and all of the associated turbo/intercooler plumbing versus compact naturally aspirated OHV V8, I dunno.
And Corvettes aren't 5.7L any more, although I suppose that the base C7 could be 5.7L once again. :)

its not going to be 5.7l. gm already said 6.2

We're talking about today's cars. Sure the 2008 Camry was so so. But my wife's 2012 Camry SE poops all over the current Mali and Impala. I also daily drive 2009 Nissan Altima and wish I had a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium with the 2.0 Ecoboost.

If GM ever does die, I hope Ford buys the corvette brand and slaps a 3.7 twin turbo in it.

This thread was dying peacefully...I don't see why you had to go and ruin it with your existence.

The Cruze and Sonic are good, but neither is segment-leading...which is what GM needs right now.

segment leading is nice but ill settle for being profitable right now.

segment leading is nice but ill settle for being profitable right now.

Agreed. As long as they can continue to make a profit better cars will follow, hopefully.

The Cruze and Sonic are good, but neither is segment-leading...which is what GM needs right now.

For 2011 The Cruze had very strong number in the small car segment.

Corolla/Matrix - 240,259

Cruze/Cobalt - 232,588

Civic - 221,235

Elantra - 186,361

Jetta - 177,360

Focus - 175,717

The Sonic/Aveo had pretty decent numbers as well. I don't feel like posting them, but here's the link.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/01/us-car-sales-december-2011-year-end.html

FWIW, GM hasn't made a small car in either of these segments that was nearly this competitive in sales and quality since...well, ever.

I definitely agree with that.

Outsold the Civic and was darn close to the Corolla. That's doing pretty well IMO.

Impressive, certainly...but let's not forget how long both of those cars had been out essentially unchanged at that point.