Forced Induction Superchargers | Turbochargers | Intercoolers

procharger question???

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-24-2012, 10:18 PM
  #1  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default procharger question???

I have an 02 Trans am, with headers, 226 228 on 114 LSA with roughly 575 lift on the intake and exhaust for a cam and running the 6 rib P1SC-1 with a 3.2 procharger pulley on the blower. Using the twin intercooler fbody setup.

I have asked procharger on how much boost it would make they said about 3 to 5 lbs. The car made about 2.5 to 3 lbs.

My question is basically asking, is this on par on what the car should be making for boost? Or do I have slippage or leakage issues that I need to check out. Procharger is the only one to give me a strait answer.
Old 08-24-2012, 10:43 PM
  #2  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (17)
 
02LS1ram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lehigh Valley ,PA
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tilly
I have an 02 Trans am, with headers, 226 228 on 114 LSA with roughly 575 lift on the intake and exhaust for a cam and running the 6 rib P1SC-1 with a 3.2 procharger pulley on the blower. Using the twin intercooler fbody setup.

I have asked procharger on how much boost it would make they said about 3 to 5 lbs. The car made about 2.5 to 3 lbs.

My question is basically asking, is this on par on what the car should be making for boost? Or do I have slippage or leakage issues that I need to check out. Procharger is the only one to give me a strait answer.

Check for belt slip first. I have madr 9psi with my p1sc1 already. Different pulley combo tho. A boost leak is also possible
Check for leaks too
Old 08-25-2012, 09:56 AM
  #3  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (21)
 
LT1RAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

This sounds right. Boost is just a measurement of restriction, not CFM. So with a cam, intake, and headers the engine is using the extra CFM and what’s left over would be your 3psi. Sounds like it’s time for a smaller pulley Any dyno numbers?

Originally Posted by tilly
I have an 02 Trans am, with headers, 226 228 on 114 LSA with roughly 575 lift on the intake and exhaust for a cam and running the 6 rib P1SC-1 with a 3.2 procharger pulley on the blower. Using the twin intercooler fbody setup.

I have asked procharger on how much boost it would make they said about 3 to 5 lbs. The car made about 2.5 to 3 lbs.

My question is basically asking, is this on par on what the car should be making for boost? Or do I have slippage or leakage issues that I need to check out. Procharger is the only one to give me a strait answer.
Old 08-25-2012, 10:09 AM
  #4  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (12)
 
js2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: K.C.
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Where are you pulling vacuum from for blow off valve?
Old 08-25-2012, 11:13 AM
  #5  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Okay, brought some math to the table. With a 6in crank pulley, and a 3.2 procharger pulley and a 4.1 step up in the gear case. The blower is spinning at 42.3K rpm. And I am making 3 lbs.

I am using the vacuum port off the throttle body that goes to the passenger side valve cover
Old 08-25-2012, 11:16 AM
  #6  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

I forgot a minor detail. The engine is spinning at 5.5K rpm
Old 08-25-2012, 11:29 AM
  #7  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (12)
 
js2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: K.C.
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Spin 6200 pull vacuum off of brake booster
Old 08-25-2012, 07:50 PM
  #8  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (21)
 
LT1RAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by js2fst
Spin 6200 pull vacuum off of brake booster
This is good advice. Check for rubber dust around the pulleys and the head unit, but I doubt that is the problem. Its just time for a smaller pulley! What are your IAT's like?
Old 08-26-2012, 01:52 PM
  #9  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

On a 95 degree day. The IATs were at 122. Ok so I know I hooked up the anti surge valve wrong. I changed it to the brake booster.

Now I have 2 choices to upgrade. I can upgrade to 3.1 or 3.0 for the 6-rib. I would like to get an ultra grip pulley but there website is broken. What pulley do you guys recommend to use for 5 to 8 lbs @ 5.5k to 6k rpm with minimal belt slip issues. I just have a feeling that's going to be my next issue. I also have 2 Weeks to deliver the car to my dad finished.

Last edited by tilly; 08-26-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Old 08-26-2012, 02:19 PM
  #10  
TECH Regular
iTrader: (9)
 
Aster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

You really will need to up the speed of the blower by about 10k RPM. Your best solution would be an 8 rib pulley system. With the 7.625 crank and a 3.85" pulley and spin the motor to 6200 RPM. That should give a cammed header car around 8 psi. Unfortunately you aren't going to go that route in two weeks.
Old 08-26-2012, 03:01 PM
  #11  
TECH Fanatic
 
dlandsvZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 96 Likes on 80 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by tilly
I have an 02 Trans am, with headers, 226 228 on 114 LSA with roughly 575 lift on the intake and exhaust for a cam and running the 6 rib P1SC-1 with a 3.2 procharger pulley on the blower. Using the twin intercooler fbody setup.

I have asked procharger on how much boost it would make they said about 3 to 5 lbs. The car made about 2.5 to 3 lbs.

My question is basically asking, is this on par on what the car should be making for boost? Or do I have slippage or leakage issues that I need to check out. Procharger is the only one to give me a strait answer.
Since you live in KC, its just a short trip over to ATI to get the pulley you want as well as an 8 rib pulley.

With a good tuner and setup person you should easily make 500 rwhp at 6-7 lbs of boost. A good shop could easily do what you need in 2-3 days since you will be bringing the parts to install with you.

A trip to D & G Dyno Tune in Hennesssey OK finds you a shop who is an ATI distributor who has a Mustang dyno, and uses EFI live to tune. He has a very good reputation in that area as well as Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and Wichita.

He has tuned mine twice because I went to a smaller pulley. I have a 98, so the tune is a little harder and more time consuming because of way the tables are modified in a 98. Since you have a 2002, a custom tune is ideal with your PCM. I have an SD tune, you can get a MAF tune as well.

I have PM'd you his number. He prefers to tune on GM cars, but has a bunch of customers with Mustangs as well.

If you don't already have 42 lbs injectors, those will have to be installed as well as an upgraded fuel pump. A Racetronix fuel pump and hot wire kit is the best and cheapest solution with capacity to spare later to take you to 600 rwhp.

Here is a pic of my car while I had it at his shop being tuned on his Mustang Dyno.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...57623345499537

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7623345499537/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7623345499537/

DeWayne knows how to tune and he won't screw you around. I have spent nearly $3000 with a nationaly known tuner in Indiana as well as three in the Kansas City area - I lived there for 10 years. My car now has the best tune ever after D & G in Hennessey tuned it.

If you are the type who wants to know what he is doing while he tunes your car - he will take the time to explain what he does each time he runs it on the dyno as he tunes each rpm level.

Give him a call - I am sure he can get everything done within two weeks.

Last edited by dlandsvZ28; 08-26-2012 at 04:12 PM.
Old 08-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #12  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (12)
 
js2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: K.C.
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Talk to Justune in town he can tune it or Ryan I will see what pullies I have talk to Reichard I had one but like aster said 8 rib and be done
Old 08-27-2012, 07:00 AM
  #13  
LS1Tech Sponsor
iTrader: (16)
 
Bob@BruteSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roanoke, IN
Posts: 21,000
Received 27 Likes on 24 Posts

Default

http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1GJ11...-1GJ115-08.htm

I drop ship the above kit directly from ProCharger, provided they have it ready to go it could ship out today to you. As has been mentioned, the larger 8 rib's 7.65 crank will really help out your system. Bob
__________________
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076

PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com

https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website


Old 08-27-2012, 08:04 AM
  #14  
TECH Fanatic
 
dlandsvZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 96 Likes on 80 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Bob@BruteSpeed
http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1GJ11...-1GJ115-08.htm

I drop ship the above kit directly from ProCharger, provided they have it ready to go it could ship out today to you. As has been mentioned, the larger 8 rib's 7.65 crank will really help out your system. Bob
Agree with Bob.

You can order the parts thru Bob at Brute but ATI will let you pickup what you order thru Brute directly at ATI in Lenexa as I did to save time and shipping costs. Bob sells injectors as well.
Old 08-27-2012, 08:13 AM
  #15  
LS1Tech Sponsor
iTrader: (16)
 
Bob@BruteSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Roanoke, IN
Posts: 21,000
Received 27 Likes on 24 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by dlandsvZ28
Agree with Bob.

You can order the parts thru Bob at Brute but ATI will let you pickup what you order thru Brute directly at ATI in Lenexa as I did to save time and shipping costs. Bob sells injectors as well.
Yes indeed, I remember your order. Thanks, I appreciate it! Bob
__________________
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076

PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com

https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website


Old 09-02-2012, 02:54 PM
  #16  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Here is an update. I'm running green top Bosch injectors. And a Walbro 255 fuel pump with a stock fuel regulator. After tightening the tensioner and finding one of the tubes popped off. Car made 7 lbs. And with 17 to 18 degrees of timing it made 512HP at 6200 rpm and 468 ft/lbs. Being conservative on the timing.

But now we are fighting a lean hump as it is coming into.boost. Fuel pressure is dropping in relation to boost. But the air fuels are fine up top. Is it a fuel pump issue or with the stock fuel pressure regulator as the pressure in the cylinder is building on the injector side its derating the fuel pressure rating. At 0 in of vacuum the regulator is at 58psi of fuel pressure and at 5 psi of boost the fuel pressure is at 53 psi
Old 09-02-2012, 03:32 PM
  #17  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (18)
 
AutomagicLS1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shawnee,KS
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by tilly
Here is an update. I'm running green top Bosch injectors. And a Walbro 255 fuel pump with a stock fuel regulator. After tightening the tensioner and finding one of the tubes popped off. Car made 7 lbs. And with 17 to 18 degrees of timing it made 512HP at 6200 rpm and 468 ft/lbs. Being conservative on the timing.

But now we are fighting a lean hump as it is coming into.boost. Fuel pressure is dropping in relation to boost. But the air fuels are fine up top. Is it a fuel pump issue or with the stock fuel pressure regulator as the pressure in the cylinder is building on the injector side its derating the fuel pressure rating. At 0 in of vacuum the regulator is at 58psi of fuel pressure and at 5 psi of boost the fuel pressure is at 53 psi
that things out of pump
Old 09-02-2012, 03:54 PM
  #18  
TECH Fanatic
 
dlandsvZ28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 0
Received 96 Likes on 80 Posts

Default

You mention you have a Walbro pump. Do you have the a complete Racetronix kit with the upgraded wire kit so you get maximum voltage to the pump or just a pump?

The Racetronix Kit has enough pump to take you to 600 rhwp (power adder rwhp). My 98 Racetronix kit maintains a constant 57-58 lbs all through the rpm range while on the dyno (Mustang).

Not related but:

I have a D1. We ran out of injector with 42 lb'rs. I had to replace with 60's.

Also you have made no mention of the size air filter you are using. Bob at Brute has mentioned time and time again the benefits of substituting the ATI supplied filter with a bigger K & N air filter.
Old 09-02-2012, 07:19 PM
  #19  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (12)
 
js2fst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: K.C.
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Gig to 80's next
Old 10-04-2012, 09:04 AM
  #20  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
tilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: KC:K
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Here is an update. I ended up missing the delivery date. Dad is not upset about it. But after putting the hotwire kit on the car and messing with the MAF tables. Got the airfuel dialed in on the Dyno. The car ended up making 540hp and 480 ft/lbs on 7 lbs of boost with 19 degrees of timing.

Fuel pressure immediately drops at WOT, but it drops to 54 PSI but it just stays there. The airfuels are good at WOT so I am not worried about it.


Quick Reply: procharger question???



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 AM.