Difficulty Level - 3rd Gen V6/auto LS swap?
09-21-2012, 03:17 PM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Difficulty Level - 3rd Gen V6/auto LS swap? I found a great deal on a 1987 Camaro V6/auto. Runs and drives. I'd like to pull the 2.8 engine and swap in something good. I don't plan to race or take it to the track, just want a fun car to drive here in town and push the kids back in their car seats. I'm thinking I'd be plenty happy with a 4.8L in stock configuration. It puts out more hp/torque than any wild 3rd Gen Z28 or IROC ever did.
Stupid newbie questions start below:
1) Can the 700R4 from the V6 be used behind an LR4 engine or do I need a V8-specific transmission like a TH350/TH400/700R4/4L60E that was behind a 305 or 350 or even whatever comes with the 4.8L when I get one?
2) If I end up using a 4L60E will I need to mod the trans tunnel or crossmembers or mounts or does it pretty much fit in the same way as the 700R4 did?
3) Will a V6 Camaro radiator be enough to cool an LR4 or should I get a V8 radiator or something universal?
4) Also if I end up using a 4L60E how do you go about making the speedometer work since I'm assuming there would be no cable, or do they make tailshafts with speedo gears and a separate VSS for that?
5) Would I have an easier time just going carbureted probably with the Edelbrock Performer manifold and a 1406 carb, or is it worth combing through wiring spaghetti to keep the EFI? Remember I'm a first-timer here.
6) I'm still Googling about the stock rear axle (what kind, what gears, etc) that's on a V6/auto '87 Camaro but how long will it last with 270hp and 295tq pushing it? What options do I have for changing rears, like maybe one from an LT1 4th Gen, would that fit? Or are 3rd/4th gen rear suspension setups too different?
***edit looks like it should be OK for street use to 300hp or so:
"the 7.5 10-bolt...will handle 300 HP pretty easy, get over 350 HP and sticky tires and good suspension you may start breaking ring gears or pinions on them"
that sounds fine to me if I stick to a 4.8 or 5.3 but if I go 6.0 I'll need something better***
Things I can do on a car include changing head gaskets, carbs, intakes, water pumps, timing sets, brakes, radiators, electrical wiring and connectors, audio systems, steering columns, trans linkages, U-joints, things like that. I've never pulled an engine from a car before. I've never changed out a transmission. I have a garage and a decent collection of tools, just don't have an air compressor or air tools (have cordless impact tho), but I'll be buying an engine stand and engine lift and a tranny jack (if needed) for this thing.
I feel confident enough to get the work done, I just don't want to screw up like my mechanic friend did doing the engine swap in my Torino. Went from a 351M to 351C, he waited until it was all apart to tell me I needed a bellhousing, a different set of engine mounts, and a whole host of other bits. Then when he put it together, he put the wrong flywheel back on the 351C and it ate my transmission (front pump disintegrated) in ten minutes of driving. So my $1100 engine swap became a $2000 engine AND transmission swap. Those are the kinds of things I'd like to avoid by doing it myself with a forum as busy as this to back me up and steer me in the right directions.
Also, if I'm going to have to change the transmission anyway, might as well get a 6.0L. And then I'm thinking 4L80E instead of 4L60E. Will that monster fit in a 3rd gen trans tunnel?
Stupid newbie questions start below:
1) Can the 700R4 from the V6 be used behind an LR4 engine or do I need a V8-specific transmission like a TH350/TH400/700R4/4L60E that was behind a 305 or 350 or even whatever comes with the 4.8L when I get one?
2) If I end up using a 4L60E will I need to mod the trans tunnel or crossmembers or mounts or does it pretty much fit in the same way as the 700R4 did?
3) Will a V6 Camaro radiator be enough to cool an LR4 or should I get a V8 radiator or something universal?
4) Also if I end up using a 4L60E how do you go about making the speedometer work since I'm assuming there would be no cable, or do they make tailshafts with speedo gears and a separate VSS for that?
5) Would I have an easier time just going carbureted probably with the Edelbrock Performer manifold and a 1406 carb, or is it worth combing through wiring spaghetti to keep the EFI? Remember I'm a first-timer here.
6) I'm still Googling about the stock rear axle (what kind, what gears, etc) that's on a V6/auto '87 Camaro but how long will it last with 270hp and 295tq pushing it? What options do I have for changing rears, like maybe one from an LT1 4th Gen, would that fit? Or are 3rd/4th gen rear suspension setups too different?
***edit looks like it should be OK for street use to 300hp or so:
"the 7.5 10-bolt...will handle 300 HP pretty easy, get over 350 HP and sticky tires and good suspension you may start breaking ring gears or pinions on them"
that sounds fine to me if I stick to a 4.8 or 5.3 but if I go 6.0 I'll need something better***
Things I can do on a car include changing head gaskets, carbs, intakes, water pumps, timing sets, brakes, radiators, electrical wiring and connectors, audio systems, steering columns, trans linkages, U-joints, things like that. I've never pulled an engine from a car before. I've never changed out a transmission. I have a garage and a decent collection of tools, just don't have an air compressor or air tools (have cordless impact tho), but I'll be buying an engine stand and engine lift and a tranny jack (if needed) for this thing.
I feel confident enough to get the work done, I just don't want to screw up like my mechanic friend did doing the engine swap in my Torino. Went from a 351M to 351C, he waited until it was all apart to tell me I needed a bellhousing, a different set of engine mounts, and a whole host of other bits. Then when he put it together, he put the wrong flywheel back on the 351C and it ate my transmission (front pump disintegrated) in ten minutes of driving. So my $1100 engine swap became a $2000 engine AND transmission swap. Those are the kinds of things I'd like to avoid by doing it myself with a forum as busy as this to back me up and steer me in the right directions.
Also, if I'm going to have to change the transmission anyway, might as well get a 6.0L. And then I'm thinking 4L80E instead of 4L60E. Will that monster fit in a 3rd gen trans tunnel?
Last edited by occupant; 09-21-2012 at 03:22 PM.
09-22-2012, 04:53 PM
#2
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I'm current swapping a ls1/4l60e into my 88 camaro that originally can as a v6.
1. You have to use a v8 style trans, if your keeping the engine mostly stock, use what comes with the engine, which will be a 4l60e.
2. No mods to the tunnel needed when using 4l60e, 4l80e will need tunnel mod.
3. I upgraded with a aluminum 3 core radiator from ebay, was something like $219.
4. They have a electronic to mechanical speedometer Box.
5. There's a company here that has swap harness's, PSI I believe.
6. They have 3.42 gears and they are weak, if you don't bet on it, they can survive a short period of time. I personally would upgrade.
Hope this help a-little
1. You have to use a v8 style trans, if your keeping the engine mostly stock, use what comes with the engine, which will be a 4l60e.
2. No mods to the tunnel needed when using 4l60e, 4l80e will need tunnel mod.
3. I upgraded with a aluminum 3 core radiator from ebay, was something like $219.
4. They have a electronic to mechanical speedometer Box.
5. There's a company here that has swap harness's, PSI I believe.
6. They have 3.42 gears and they are weak, if you don't bet on it, they can survive a short period of time. I personally would upgrade.
Hope this help a-little
09-22-2012, 08:48 PM
#3
You do NOT have to run a V8 transmission. The only requirement is making sure you have the right depth for the torque converter if it is not from a Gen III /IV engine.
If you have a non electronic transmission (i.e. 700R4, 2004R, T400) you need to make kickdown linkage or actuator of some sort.
Newer 4L60E's have PWM cast on the front pump (more info in my Thunderbird build) and are fully electronic which means everything can be controlled through the tune in the PCM. I can't stress how much easier this makes your life in a daily / fun driver type swap situation.
The gears in these cars aren't weak, the axle housing design is weak from a performance standpoint. It's also the same design in the 4th gen cars. Behind an automatic driven reasonably (even harshly at times), the rear will last a long time. Behind a manual on sticky tires, start saving for an aftermarket housing. My factory rear lasted 90K behind a manual and an LS1 and I don't treat it very nice... Not saying I wouldn't plan for the upgrade, but if you are on a budget it can wait.
09-22-2012, 09:30 PM
#4
Here are my thoughts.
1. Get a V8 specific transmission. The V6 transmission comes with few "clutch" plates.
2. As stated no tunnel mod necessary. I am running a 4L60E in my 1989 Trans Am.
3. Get a V8 radiator. The V6 is a single core usually.
4. As stated you can use the conversion box.
5. That is up do you but I love EFI.
6. The rear end should hold.
1. Get a V8 specific transmission. The V6 transmission comes with few "clutch" plates.
2. As stated no tunnel mod necessary. I am running a 4L60E in my 1989 Trans Am.
3. Get a V8 radiator. The V6 is a single core usually.
4. As stated you can use the conversion box.
5. That is up do you but I love EFI.
6. The rear end should hold.
09-23-2012, 09:18 AM
#5
Teching In
Thread Starter
If I go with the 4L60E I think I'll keep the EFI, but if I try to use the 700R4 I may go with a carb setup but keep the EFI stuff for later. All three posts marvelously helpful, thank you, now I just have to get the thing here and get it past inspection and then I can get started on pulling that little V6.
