Robbie Wilson

I also posted this in stereo electronics because I wasn't sure where to post.



First off I know what most of you are thinking. Ricer! Lol, I have a thing for fancy lights. I don’t know what it is but I LOVE lights. So I’ll get a good laugh out of your comments xD. Personally I don’t care about ricer vs. non-ricer etc etc. I just LOVE LIGHTS. Also in my defense my car is not a v6.

Ok now that’s out of the way let us begin. I am in California so this write up regards California law so this is really just for people that live in CA but I recommend reading for anyone amused by my silly idea or just interested in neon under glow.
Ca law reads:

V C Section 25400 Lighting Requirements
Lighting Requirements
25400.

(a) Any vehicle may be equipped with a lamp or device on the exterior of the vehicle that emits a diffused nonglaring light of not more than 0.05 candela per square inch of area.

(b) Any diffused nonglaring light shall not display red to the front, but may display other colors. A diffused nonglaring light shall not resemble nor be installed within 12 inches or in such position as to interfere with the visibility or effectiveness of any required lamp, reflector, or other device upon the vehicle.

(c) A diffused nonglaring lamp or device, other than a display sign authorized by subdivision (d), shall be limited in size to an area of 720 square inches and where any lease, rental, or donation is involved the installation of the lamp or device shall be limited to those vehicles operated either primarily within business or residential districts or municipalities, or between business districts, residential districts, and municipalities in close proximity.

(d) An internally illuminated sign emitting not more than 0.25 candela per square inch and possessing copy which does not contain a white background may be displayed on each side, but not on the front or rear, of a trolley coach or of a bus being operated in urban or suburban service as described in Section 35107 of this code.

Ok. So first of all the questions we need to ask ourselves are:
What does diffused non glaring light mean?

A diffused non glaring light defined by the state of CA is just a light/lamp positioned so that you cannot see the bulbs. Period. The bulbs absolutely may not be visible no matter what from EVERY ANGLE. This is extremely important because otherwise you may be cited as impersonating an emergency vehicle and then you will be SOL. So it is of utmost importance that you may not see the bulbs! I repeat, if you do nothing else right at all make sure that you can’t see the bulbs no matter what, and besides it looks a lot tackier if you can see the bulbs anyways so to make it look clean they have to be hidden anyway.

Where can I mount lights that aren’t 12 inches from any required lamp, reflector, or other device upon the vehicle?

This is also very tough situation as you may have to mount the bulbs within 12 inches of a lamp or reflector in order to comply with the diffused lighting requirement.

Another thing is that “reflectors” are not clearly defined anywhere in California vehicle codes. I would suggest going under the car with a tape measure and just “do your best”.

How do I make sure my underglow kit is less than or equal to 720 square inches of area?

This is super easy. I hope you all know that L * W = area. Just measure out the neon kit in inches and multiply the length and the width to get your area in square inches.

*** Edit *** CA VC Division 12 section 25400(c) is confusing. 720 square inches for all 4 tubes or each individually. It is written as "A diffused nonglaring lamp or device,..., shall be limited in size to an area of 720 square inches" Sounds like it is singular to me meaning an individual "lamp." But on the other hand who would put a light the size of a coffee table (5 square ft) on their car...

WTH is 0.05 Candela per square inch and how can I measure that to make sure I am legal?

OK so by far this is the most challenging aspect here because this is the kicker. Pay attention here:

Lux vs. Candela per square meter vs. candela per square inch

First of all, I chose to measure the light output in the unit of Lux because Lux meters are the cheapest widely available meter you can buy on amazon for around $30.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mast...iw=944&bih=927

Other forms of light meters are pricier.

Given:
One lux = one candela per square meter

In order to convert candela per square meter to candela per square inch, you must divide candela per square meter by 1550.0031000062 or just 1550.0031, should be about the same.

Because 1 candela per square meter(lux) = 0.00064516 candela per square inch. Therefore 1550.0031000062 x 0.00064516 = 1.

So now back to our $30 lux meter.

We measure the light from the underglow buy putting the lux meter on the ground directly below the neon underglow.

Let’s assume that we get a reading of 30 lux (just for example purposes).

Ok so now let’s convert that to candela per square inch.

First step is to realize that 30 lux = 30 candela per square meter. Ok.

Second step is to realize that in order to convert candela per square meter to candela per square inch we must divide our lux value of 30 by 1550.0031, so… 30/1550.0031=0.01935.

Ok, 0.02 candela is comfortably below the ca law requirement of 0.05 candela per square inch.

Alternatively you could always make the same conversion by multiplying your lux value by = 0.00064516. The answer will be the same every time!

OK so now if some are looking for a kit that they can be sure of producing less than 0.05 candela per square inch without buying one and finding out after installing it, it is illegal. Here is a link to another fourm about this issue,

http://www.car-forums.com/s8/t22678.html

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=91435&page=2

I am not 100% sure but apparently the Gold series kit from street glow produces less than 0.05 candela per square inch. I would still measure and check myself, but it is better than buying something blind and hoping it will check out. However I have no idea if those people have actually done the calculation for themselves but it is the only thing I could find to reference.

However if you decide to do it just make sure your notes and your work is clear and concise and ready to be explained in a non-confusing way to the next police officer to stop you.

Also be prepared to get a ticket for any and everything else slightly illegal on your car because chances are you will argue with the officer and he will start writing tickets like it’s no one’s business.

It may be better to just gather up all your evidence and take it to court and be very polite to the officer as he is trying to do his job.

This should also hopefully prevent any other unnecessary tickets that you may or may not receive.

So as my disclaimer: do at your own risk. I am not responsible for anything that may or may not happen to you while driving on public roads for any reason.

You all might be thinking well why not just turn it off on the street? Ehh… good point but I have an addiction to adrenaline and I need to be a little rebellious in everything I do. Neon under glow is a statement and something of a melodramatic lifestyle, LOL like sticking it to the man.

On another note, a simple list of things you may get ticketed for because of under glow that I can think of off the top of my head:

Window tint, front license plate, rear license plate lighting, interior foot well lighting, no front airbags, smoked taillights, illegal headlights(ebay halo’s etc.) Hid headlights, wheels/tires that extend past the fenders (17x11 zr1 guys), headers that are not CARB approved, no cats, non carb approved CAI, non carb approved intake elbow, non carb approved supercharger, a non carb approved lope-y cam. If you don’t live in CA then just disregard this post entirely!

Step 3:
Enjoy your new under glow!

Z28RS

I'm not wild about neon under-glow, but I don't hate it. Honestly, I think it makes cars a lot safer at night -- particularly in rainy or foggy conditions -- because it makes them more visible.

Thanks for your insightful post.

Robbie Wilson

Thanks! I appreciate it. I did a lot of hw for this lol.

*Edit*

for those of you in Texas check this thread out. It is from 2005 so I am not sure if the law has changed but I will be doing a write up for each state that allows the use of diffused lighting.

http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewt...hp?f=6&t=20187

fast01z28

iTrader: (6)

Im not a hater, but underbody lights are just obnoxious. They were a hot thing 15 years ago with fast and the furious, but have since become overplayed, and then burned out (pun intended).

I had them back in the day, and I must say, they are unnecessarily difficult. Any time you drive over something in the road, speed bump, put the car on a lift...you will be paranoid about breaking a light.

Are you autistic? Im not bashing you, my nephew is autistic, and he really likes lights and fans. Maybe thats why you like lights so much.

__Z__

iTrader: (6)

Bcz these sweet tails are sooooooooo much moar bettererer than underglows





Stir da pot stir da pot

fast01z28

iTrader: (6)

im sooo glad you loved the prototype tail light so much that you saved them on your computer. That picture is almost 5 years old.

Not sure what makes those rice...i took 93-97 tail lights, gutted them, and bread boarded LED panels. I didnt like them and threw them away. You should call up cadillac, lexus, honda, toyota, ford, chrysler, mercedes and BMW and let them know that putting LEDs in your tail lights means the car is rice.

__Z__

iTrader: (6)

So let me get this straight, you come into this guys thread, bash him, say maybe he's autistic, but cant take the heat yourself?

He was posting facts, not stating he wanted opinions...

Saved to my computer? I just searched through your threads.

There is a difference between a good set of led tail lights (making your led boards and setting them up for dual intensity FrankSS did a great job of this with his custom front signals) and going out and buying a bunch of $5 autozone strips, putting them in your tail lights, and calling it a day.

Anywho, I posted it more as a joke (hence saying I was stirring the pot).

my bandit

iTrader: (10)

you're the one making fun of someone? didn't you make like 10 threads just to show off your exhaust or a build thread (make that 5 because you kept deleting them for people bashing you) to show off the little tiny mods you did like a discolored hood, plasti-dipped stock wheels and some other random bs?

__Z__

iTrader: (6)

Someone needs to get their facts straight, I delete my threads because people keep holding personal conversations in them. As for my multiple exhausts, yup, going on 5 here in a few weeks, am I ashamed? Hellz to the no, to find the perfect exhaust it takes trial and error.

Would you like to put our cars to a cosmetic poll?

my bandit

iTrader: (10)

if you dont want people to talk in them, why not just make a word document with pictures that only you can see? and I would love to, but i dont want to have you lose at that also

__Z__

iTrader: (6)

PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS, like two guys trying to negotiate sales, or talking to one another referencing other threads, I have no problems for opinions, if and when I ask for them.

And I think your just afraid Ide prove my useless mods useful

Anyway back on topic sorry op

fast01z28

iTrader: (6)

1) grow up.
2) I was not bashing the OP, i was giving an opinion with facts. Example of bashing: that crap is rice. you suck. I gave actual valid points learned from past experience.
3) what would you know about good LED tail lights? I used dual intesity LEDs, on a breadboard, with resistors and soldering and all kinds of stuff that youve never heard of. You are judging based on a crappy picture taken before I was even close to done.
4) you are not funny...more lame, so move on. I dont see you giving any useful info, positive or negative, to the OP.

This is why 4th gens are going to disappear into oblivion, there are too many immature, lame *** people in the community. As the cars get cheaper, you find lower life forms buying the cars (no insult meant toward anyone but the __Z__ guy).

Robbie Wilson

uhh... I'm not autistic and even if I was I think it is a little rude to just call someone out about something like that on a public forum. Also I understand the whole fast and furious thing and I can see where you are coming from... I really do, but I am only 18 and never got to experience that whole fad and I happen to like fast and furious . Of course there is a limit, however since a lot of performance mods in CA are illegal, to find a visual mod as cool as this that I can run on the highway is pretty sweet. Don't get me wrong I am all about performance 100% and I don't even own a neon under-glow kit. I was just particularly intrigued with the the idea of neon under-glow because I have been thinking under-glow was illegal for years and then to find out it isn't, well now I might just have to do it because I can. Jeez... I realize its a stupid fad but I like it and I advocate people that do things for their car out of personal taste not what other people say is right. On another note, in my opinion, it's better than hella-flush. Adding neon's don't make the car unsafe to drive... just my opinion.

__Z__

iTrader: (6)

If you want to see lame ***, look in the mirror, you should be ashamed of yourself for coming into someones thread, spewing worthless information, proceed to calling them autistic, and then expect to just go about your day.

Here is my useful opinion to the op. Do whatever the hell makes you happy, but at the end of the day you cant please everyone. There are some great guys here willing to help and give you useful advice, that could honestly careless if what your doing is not their style. The other half is just looking to make fun of others when they dont have the same personal styles. All said and done, if you like something who cares what everyone else thinks.

fast01z28

iTrader: (6)

I dont need to quote myself...someone taught you how to read, try using that skill.

I dont believe you about your LED work experience. honestly, it doesn't really matter. You are just a piece of **** on the bottom on shoe that am currently scraping off and flushing down the toilet.

you keep asking about putting our cars in polls, you do realize that i sold my car 2.5 years ago? Im glad that you are so concerned over what other people think of you. I dont give a ****, it just pisses me off that you took my comments about a thread and personally attack me using 5 year old pictures of my car that i sold 2.5 years ago.you can reply to me all you want, i am now ignoring you. I dont need to waste any more time with your sorry ***.

OP, sorry if the autistic comment bothered you. The only reason i said it was because when you said that looked exactly like what my nephew would say. It was not meant as an insult.