T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

I am seriously considering selling my '99 SS Camaro. Have an idea what to ask but wanted to get some feedback.

I ordered this car new. Car has never been anything more than a weekend toy and garaged since day one. Only been in the rain once and never near salt or snow. Basically the car is in the same condition it was the day I picked it up from the dealer only cleaner.

Details:
12,6XX original miles (one owner)
Hardtop
6sp
grey leather
NO traction control

I see another Hugger Orange SS for sale on here w/ and auto, t-tops, white leather and a little bit more mileage with an asking price of $17,500 (not sold after months on the market).

I feel like my car may have a little more appeal due to the 6sp trans, but I don't know.

Any thoughts on what this car might be worth to the RIGHT buyer (not worried about selling to somebody who just wants a 6sp hardtop SS), looking for the guy who wants this rare version of the car.

Thanks for the help,

btownws6

NC01TA

I wish I was in the market. A stock 6 speed LS1 car with that mileage is indeed getting tougher to find each and every month that passes by. The color and 6 speed are quite desireable options for many.
A very reasonable asking price would be in the $15,000+ neighborhood. People interested in a car like yours know that there is a premium attached for 'near mint', one owner, ultra low mileage cars. Throw out the price guides! They are not applicable and I don't fault them. It is too difficult to gauge the interest and real world pricing for so few examples.
You need to feel comfortable with your asking price but remember to allow some room for negotiation as well. There is also competition out there that you have to contend with. You can't be thousands and thousands of dollars over them. That is why the car you mentioned isn't selling at $17,500. See the link I provided below (it is a Z28 but certainly similar). What will your car actually sell for realistically in the long run? Definitely north of $14,000 and I have a feeling you might do even better, possibly in that $15,000+ range as I mentioned. Unfortunately, right now, the car buying season is dwindling with the slowest months (holidays) just ahead. Best of luck!!
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...24276508&Log=0

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

It's not a for sale ad...

Imagine what the car looked like new... what's it worth?

NC01TA

You want real or fake numbers??
Yeah it's worth $20,000. Is that what you want to hear? All our low mileage cars are worth a lot more than what they would actually sell for. My SS is worth $25,000. I can sell it for $15,000 - $16,000. My low mileage T/A vert is worth $20,000 to me but about $13,000 - $14,000 in a real world sale. What good does that do? No one will pay you $20,000 when you can buy 2002 CETA's or anniversary Camaros for a few thousand more with the same mileage. If you had under 5,000 miles on your car you could probably get more for it than what I posted above. It makes a difference to a collector when it involves a sub 10,000 miles car. I've been in this game a real long time and know the market well. I just offered a darn good analysis above about real cost and value including a link that is very applicable. That's what your car would probably sell for. I don't know what you want. You said you might be selling the car in your first post so that is what I based my answer on. Your last post said it is not a 'for sale' ad. Which is it? If you want an 'agreed upon' insurance value then that is different. Please explain. I love to help out but I don't know where you are coming from. You can't compare a new zero mileage car with one that has 12,000 miles. It doesn't work that way no matter how nice it is. A 'collector' isn't going to overpay for your car. I know that isn't what you want to hear and I'm sorry about that if I burst your bubble.
Of course ask anything you want. Maybe you can find a fool that will part with his $$. It happens frequently at high end auctions. You never know.
*** Here is another link since you apparently didn't like the one I gave before. This car isn't selling either. Same color, 6 speed and 3 years newer with even less mileage. He might get $20,000 but probably will need to sell in the $18,000 - $19,000 range. even then it is not an easy sell. Now how can you do better?
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...27961009&Log=0

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

NC01TA,

Sorry for the confusion. My response was actually to the post above yours about the need for pictures. If you look at the time stamp of the posts your original post and my response are fairly close. I had opened up the forum and clicked to respond to the first post and got distracted long enough to not submit my post until after your reply... but I did not see your reply before I posted. Sorry to have sounded rude. It wasn't directed at you.

Regarding your posts, I do appreciate the feedback. It is why I posted in this forum (and not the for sale forum). I want to be informed before I even get out the camera and start taking pictures for a for sale ad. If had got only responses telling me the car is worth kelly blue book or NADA, then I'd just assume start daily driving the car and stop babying it as a garage queen. It is not worth it to sell it for so little when it costs me next to nothing to use like a regular car.

Your response seems reasonable. I am fully aware that the owner of a car can become blinded by their own "appreciation" for what they have and that generally does not extend to others. Hence my request for feedback. I want it unfiltered by my biased opinion.

I think the examples you give are reasonable.

I'm on the fence about the collector opinion of the mileage. I don't totally disagree with you mind you, but I think if a collector was really looking for a specific car and had cash in hand they would overlook a half dozen thousand miles if the car was still showroom fresh. But I will admit that I am not a collector, just someone who prefers a really nice car that can generally only be obtained by buying new or getting one with really low miles. When I sold my Firehawk it had twice the miles of my SS and it was in the same shape. The guy that bought it was ecstatic at the condition and the price at the time... I sold it for $16,500 about 3 years ago. Obviously I expect the market has changed.

I think what it always comes down to is the buyer as you mentioned. If a person just wants a low mileage LS1 powered SS hardtop with a manual, then they have a lot more supply and hence should not pay as much. If they are looking for a one year only color (as mine is), and are really picky about the options (say wanting only a hardtop with the manual), then the supply is really low for low mileage showroom fresh cars. That still doesn't mean it's worth a lot, but it would mean if someone did meet that criteria, they don't have any other options. The guy that bought my Firehawk fit this description exactly. He was searching for exactly my car down to the option and was not interested in any other variation of the car. He paid $3500 more than any other offer I got, but it took some time to sell the car. Like when I sold that car, I'm in no hurry right now and don't need to sell the car. I just have gotten to the point I don't need it or really particularly want it either. It's not worth the money and time to keep maintaining a car that collects more dust than miles when the time and money could be used on other things I do want. That's not what having a car should be, so I am looking to sell it... though I am having trouble letting go of the thought of having it after 13-1/2 years.

I don't think that your recommendations are very far from where I was thinking. As I mentioned, my bigger fear was the market was ultra low and the car was near worthless. From your posts anyway, I feel like I'm not way off.

I'm just curious... at this point does time really radically change the value of the car I have. I.e. if I drag my feet for another year, do I lose a bunch of money or is the value basically the value at this point assuming the car's condition stays the same and mileage doesn't grow more than a couple hundred miles? Obviously this would just be speculation, but I am curious.

I'd love to hear others opinions too (not just requesting pictures).

NC01TA

Sorry about that T-hawk. That's the trouble with these places sometimes. I thought your post was directed towards my response.
I'm glad you could use my opinions a bit. You are very correct about the value of your car being 'about the same' in another year provided the mileage and condition don't change too much. It is hard to gauge where the economy will be next year though with the election coming up. Many factors. Again, sorry for jumping to conclusions.

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

No reason to be sorry

So if time is not a major factor (assuming the world economy or the election don't destroy everything LOL)... then what about mods?

The reason I ask is that I have been collecting boxes of parts for the car over the years and just have never gotten around to installing them. It's all bolt-on stuff, nothing in the engine etc, and it's all high quality. Just things that are proven to actually improve the car over stock (like Strano springs and koni adjustables, short throw shifter, LS6 intake, etc.). All weekend type stuff that can easily be removed but is generally regarded as a universally positive modification over the places GM took shortcuts.

I'm not asking if it increases the value (I know it doesn't), I'm asking if it hurts the value in my case with a rare low mileage car?

I also realize I could probably get more selling the car stock and then selling the parts separate, but one of my slim chances of keeping the car would be if it motivated me to use it more with the upgrades. The only way to know is to install them. Sure I can just remove them if it doesn't convince me to keep it, but honestly don't know if I want to put that much effort into it once I decide to sell it beyond a fresh coat of wax. So point is I'd like to install them to see if it makes me like the car enough over stock to keep it, but I don't want to kill the value of the car.

As the original owner it's not like I'm not losing my butt regardless, but I'd rather not just flush money down the toilet by lowering the value of the car AND losing the option to sell the parts I've collected and never installed.

Feedback?

NC01TA

Any mods are a big NO in my book. If I was in the market I would buy your car now in it's 'stock' factory condition. If you mod it I would not be interested. That's me, but there are other buyers and 'collectors' who feel this way. The only acceptable changes for people like us are the tires (still would want Goodyears, but that is easily remedied) and the battery (would want AC/Delco, but again easy to fix). If you do try the 'mod' experiment and keep all the original parts, no one will ever know if you put them back on when you decide to sell. It isn't the most ethical thing to do but I'm sure it happens. That's up to you. Sell the car with the mods though and you can kiss certain buyers goodbye. That's a definite.
The most important part of car ownership is what you want to do. Don't sell the car and let someone else enjoy it because you were afraid to hurt the value. We aren't talking about making the car worthless with mods, just not able to get absolute top $$. Again, a very personal decision.
I don't mean to hog your post but your type of car is what interests me the most. It is what I own personally now, and always have since I left my modded younger years behind me a long time ago.

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

I understand you where you are coming from, I figured that would be the answer since like you, if I was in the market, I'd prefer the car to be as stock as possible. Even if I intended to mod the snot out of it, I'd still prefer to start with a stock car than one with an unknown factor.

My collection of parts was really intended to remedy all the places I think GM did a crappy job with the car... terrible ride height, bad shocks, rubber shifter, etc. Of course I am an engineer by training so I tend to over-think the stuff from an "optimization" standpoint LOL. But as you pointed out, stock is at least a universally understood starting point with the widest appeal. Every change beyond stock reduces the number of people interested... lowering the demand and consequently the potential asking price.

Of course it is funny how if I had ordered the car from some well known tuner and had them make the same exact changes as part of a factory package (say, like having the SLP adjustable koni suspension installed when I ordered the car rather than adding it after the fact for a fraction of the price), it changes everything. The car would technically be even more rare and desirable.

You are not hogging the post. Since you are the only one giving any feedback I appreciate it... though anyone of the 100+ people who have viewed it at this point feel free to leave some of your thoughts as well.

TWS

iTrader: (63)

I agree with the idea that keeping it stock preserves more value.

You nailed it here
I have a '99 Bright Blue Metallic Z28. It is further rare in that it is basically a stripper car with manual everything. I bought it bone stock, but then installed a lot of bolt-ons to improve power and handling. None of the mods I performed are permanent and are, IMHO, very tasteful. No boy racer appearance mods like we often see and of course no thumping stereo. In fact the only appearance mods are a set of 2002 SS wheels. I improved the car to allow me to enjoy it more because I thought I would keep it a long time... and I have. I bought it in April of 2003. Although the intent was my enjoyment, I still kept in the back of my mind the rarity of the car and thus all mods are bolt-ons and easily reversable. No internal engine mods, no cutting or welding, etc.

Although BBM is an even more rare color than Hugger Orange, your color has more appeal due to the heritage of the Hugger Orange color with Chevrolet.

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

TWS,

So are you saying the more subtle/tasteful/functional/"temporary" mods are OK, or that it is best to just stay totally stock? I think you are saying stock, but your second statement confused me a little (I understand why you did what you did to your car as I agree with it, but it counters the first part a little). If I was keeping my SS forever, I'd modify it likely similar to the type of stuff you have done, but I still wouldn't do anything I couldn't undo without a trace as you have mentioned. In my case I've just never found the time to get out into the garage and start the work (that's what having a family does to you). Of course the whole point of this thread is that I'm likely not keeping it forever hence I wanted to see how others think.

BTW, I love the color of your car. Had it been offered on the SS when I ordered mine, it would have been a hard choice between HO and BBM. But as you know they never made an SS in BBM so that sealed it.

Thanks for the feedback.

TWS

iTrader: (63)

No. I'm saying I agree with keeping it stock for best/highest value, but I didn't follow my own advice.

What I did do, however, was keep the mods easily reversible since mine is also a rare car.

I violated that guidance because I intended to keep the car a long time and enjoy it. I have owned it for 9 years and put 23K miles on it during my ownership.

It now has 2002 Camaro SS wheels on it, but you get the idea.

T-hawk

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for clarifying. That's kind of what I thought you intended.

Very sweet! I like that a lot.

Why did you change to the later SS wheels? I like the ZR1's... of course I'm biased since that's what's on my car...

TWS

iTrader: (63)

Thanks! I love the car.

The ZR1's were in decent shape, but not as nice as the rest of the car. The SS wheels I found are very nice and their condition compliments the car better. I am contemplating putting mine up for sale too...

rwerk91

Old thread but ever sell this car?

Firebrian

I think if the OP still has the car and the mileage didn't change more than 2K it's still probably worth as much or more than it was in October 2012. I bought my '99 SS M6 in 2012 for $12K. And it had the same mileage as the OP's car at that time, 12,500. So figure in the premium for HO (15-25% depending on who you are). And 1 owner, HO M6 hardtops with 12K miles don't grow on trees. Out of 375 HO SS's built, I'd guess only 40 or so were built optioned as such. Still, most buyers are probably looking for the more "common" TTop cars....and the 2001-2002's.

Good pricing analysis by NCO1TA that might just help some new buyers in the market today. It's every bit as applicable 3 years later. Interesting that the OP lists a '99 SS HO as "sold." But that update occurs 1 day before their last post on this thread. Did they have 2?