Wild Cobra

I have a 2002 WS6 and it appears my engine hydrolocked only from heavy rain two weeks ago. My path to work didn't take me through any standing water. However, the last few days I would have a knock-knock sound when I went over small bumps, like a speed bump. After work, and I went to start the car, I only had starter gring. I figured this was the sound I was hearing, that it was loose, and it was finally not engaging. I had it towed to a shop, they replaced the starter, started it and boom... looks like #6 (yes 6 again) put a hole in the side of the block.

It is my assessment that the water entered the manifold from the towing process to the shop. This is my question, which I have seen little on over this subject. Is there enough residual water in the ram air system to run back to the back cylinders when towing. I simply cannot see how it went from perfectly running for more almost a minute at temperature and idle, to a hydrolock at start-up 8-1/2 hours later.

The engine ran prefect while I drove it to work, through a rather large parking lot, under 15 MPH for some time, before stopping the engine. Some say the starter flange broke because of the hydrolock condition on start-up, but I only had starter grind. No other sound. I figure loose bolts, traveling, broke one starter flange.

A friend of mine told me it is not uncommon for the ram Air LS1 engines to hydrolock after towing. I couldn't find much information on this however.

Thanx.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure what information your friend would be basing this on. The factory "ram air" system isn't even ram air, in stock form. The hood is not sealed to the air box, and thus isn't true ram air.

You can make the stock WS6 hood a real ram air setup by sealing it to the air box. Or there are aftermarket ram air kits that you can buy for any trim level car that will draw air from under the bumper. But unless you have done something like this to your car, then there is no sealed connection that would direct water straight from the outside....towing or not.

Wild Cobra

It doesn't need to be a sealed system. Water will still run in the nose to the airbox when elevated. Nose elevated, towed in the rain with an eagle claw... Apparently you haven't heard of this, I'm looking for others who have. Maybe how long the nose needs to be elevated in the rain before taking in enough water.

There was no indication of the engine taking in water when it was running.

Add 20 minutes later;

I just pulled up the USGS data. The rain station closest to my location and the one on the other side show heavy rain when it was towed.

My trip to work was from 2:30 PM to just before 3:00 PM on 10/14/12. Precipitation is 0 on the chart, thought it was wet outside. My work finished at 11:30 PM, and just after that I had the starter grind. The car was towed 10/15 during the heavy precipitation at the 5:00PM data point. It rained 0.15" during that one hour by the one station, and 0.22" by the other station.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yes, in this case it would.

The stock system has baffles that block the flow of water from having any straight shot into the air box regardless of elevation, and then allow it to drain from holes in the stock, unsealed hood. Additionally, there is a gap between the hood and the airbox in stock form, and this would make it very difficult for unpressurized water to make the leap from the hood into the air box and up the filter, even if the baffles were removed.

If someone removed the baffles, sealed those drainage holes, and sealed the hood to the box, then you might have an issue. If your hood is 100% stock, then I don't see how it's possibile for enough rain water to ever do what you have described, even with the front elevated on a tow truck. It would require a rain of biblical proportions.

Wild Cobra

I am talking about gravity, when the car is towed by an Eagle Claw!

0.22" of rain for the hour data. This is the time-frame the car was towed!

ZNix

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand the point of making this post if you already know the answer.. He is telling you its most likely not possible and you are not listening.. Water either got in there some other way, or something else went wrong.

Zack

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yes.

The baffles direct the water to the bottom of the hood, near the latch plate. The drainage holes will allow the water to drian from the hood at this point, which is lower than the air box.

These things are still true for the elevated height/angle of the front end on tow truck.

Also, keep in mind that where the air box/upper radiator support attaches to the chassis, this connection point is not air/water tight. Water would have to overwhelm this area and pool, then saturate the air filter and travel up through the air bellow.

Wild Cobra

OK, first, it is not the stock hood There are no holes at the bottom surface. The only gap is the fact the hood is not sealed to the air filter box assembly. Second, when I looked a few months ago, I never saw any drain holes in the air box. I'll look again when I see the car in the shop, probably tomorrow. Maybe they are there and I missed them

As for the incline of the airbox being lower than the intake, the angle changes when towed. The bellow to the airbox is maybe only a 5 degree slope. Towing definately changes its angle from water out, to water in.

I am a competent mechanic. I make my living on sophisticated automation equipment. I have been a paid wrench-twister since 1975. I have looked at the details. I am looking for another similar story because I believe I have a case against the towing company, and maybe the mechanic.

For you to say this is impossible, is wrong. I didn't know the original hood has drain holes. Since you said that, it is important that I do have an aftermarket hood. No baffles either.

Wild Cobra

He simple doesn't see my car. The fact my hood is not stock probably makes the difference.

I'm going to measure the area of the scoop part of the hood exposed to rain when I see my car again. I'm thinking it's at least 100 sq. inches from a top view. That would allow 22 cubic inches of water/hr. at the average rainfall for that hour.

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

1. You have been a mechanic for 37 years, yet you had the car towed to a shop for someone else to replace the starter..? Ok I'll play in to this, assuming you started being a "paid wrench-twister" around the age of 16 that puts you at about 53 years old, and probably not wanting to lay on the ground and work on the cramped F-body...

2. You bought a WS6 but have an aftermarket hood? So the car was either in an accident (damaging the hood and possibly the engine), or you wanted a different style hood... Either way when you installed this ram air hood you assumed the risk that rain could enter the engine at any time.

3. What is your case against the towing company and the mechanic, that they towed it in the rain or that the mechanic put in a new starter and then started the car? You said it didn't hydrolock till 8.5 hours after it was repaired and that it ran fine when you picked it up, so how would it be their fault. Also the car can only be at so much of an angle before the rear end drags.

You drove it to work knowing it could rain, with said non-rainproof hood, and had it towed in the rain... unless the weather man/woman screwed up the forecast, in which case you should look into sewing them for the damages to your car.

Good luck with your lawsuit, but I can't see it going in your favor.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Yes. This could definitely make a difference. The drain holes located near the latch plate in the stock hood (unless plugged) would still allow for drainage of water at a point below the air inlet of the airbox, even at the typical front elevation/angle of the car when on a tow truck. You can only lift the car so high before the rear bumper will get ripped off. The baffles are a 3 piece system that directs water down and away from the air box, and towards these drainage holes.

No, I said that what you suggest happened here would not be possibile with a stock, non-sealed, non-plugged hood....and that statement is still correct.

But who would assume that you have an aftermarket hood when all you posted was this:

I should not have bothered trying to help based on incomplete info. Most would assume an OE hood when all you say is "2002 WS6". Mistake noted. Good luck to you.

Wild Cobra

Please don't state the obvious. When I see my car again, I'm going to measure these areas and see what angle is requires to get the water up to the upper rear edge of the air clear box.

Wild Cobra

Are you purposely being an ***?

I bought the car with the aftermarket hood from the previous owner. He had the original hood, but the clearcoat finish was damaged. That's why he put the other hood on. He offered me the original hood as well. I wasn't interested. Live in an apartment, don't have a garage. Tired of working on cars when I can pay someone else for something not too labor intensive.

I said the car ran perfect when I arrived at work, and when I got off 8.5 hrs later, it didn't start. Starter grind. I am all but certain the starter was lose, making the "thump-thump" sound I was hearing when I hit bumps over the last couple days. It was towed to the shop the next day, and two days later when the mechanic got to it, it blew out then In his shop. It makes sense that the vibration of driving it cracked and broke the flange that was broke when he replaced the starter, and he said the bolts were loose.

It was towed in the rain where the accumulated rain for that hour of data was 0.15" for one nearby monitoring station and 0.22" at the other nearby monitoring station. It was a real heavy rain when it was towed, nose up. I had no control of when it was towed, that was arranged by the shop. He said they would take it on a flat bed, but then I found out otherwise.

My only claim against the mechanic would be on the grounds that he said he turned the engine over by hand to check the flywheel teeth, and had to use a breaker bar at one point, that it turned very hard. He should have known to stop and check in my opinion...

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Apparently, a little more of the obvious needed to be stated at the beginning of this thread, like the fact you have a non-stock hood.

In your first post, you asked a question:

My posts have been made in an effort to answer this question. At the time, all you stated was a "2002 WS6". I gave answers based on that info alone, and these are not the answers that you wanted to hear. You seem to have your mind already made up about what you think happened here.

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

That probably did come out sounding like an ***, I apologize for that.

Your situation sucks, but thats why if you want it done right you have to do it yourself... especially if you are a mechanic. It is for this reason that I am the only one that touches my car (other than my tuner), and I am not a mechanic.

Good luck with getting it all worked out!

Element

iTrader: (5)

Unless you had no air filter in the car when it was towed, the amount of water that could have made it through the intake system and filter - even if the tow truck was going 80mph in the rain - wouldn't have been significant enough to cause a hydrolock. The lid feeds from the bottom, not the top, so you would need a very large pressure differential to force enough water through the intake system, through the filter, and into the intake manifold.

pewter2002

iTrader: (4)

Hydro locked posts seem to crop up on a regular basis after heavy rainfall. Not all had aftermarket hoods IIRC. My questions are, is the Camaro prone to this too? Only ramair cars? Only ls1 cars?

Some theories were water on intake pooling and seeping past the intake gaskets or even injectors leaking down . Anything we, as owners, can look for to determine if our particular vehicle is a risk for this. It sure is a crappy way to lose a good running motor...

NC98Z

iTrader: (1)

You know a Camaro engine can lockup the same way as a hydrolocked one if the fuel injector is messed up. So did yours lockup from water or gas in the cylinder?

joecar

Rain water seeped past the seam in the center of wiper gutter, dripped down on the injector for #6, past the injector lower o-ring (these o-rings can be leaky until vacuum pulls the injector down) and into the intake port.

pewter2002

iTrader: (4)

^ Really?