Which 4L80E do I need to get?
12-10-2012, 12:56 PM
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Which 4L80E do I need to get? Is any year better than another as far as fitment or performance? I read that a 4wd would work but need to be modified. Some say w/hole in top of case or without.
Anyone?
Anyone?
12-10-2012, 06:30 PM
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So I was hoping one of the guys that have done the swap would chime in.
12-10-2012, 06:45 PM
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http://jakesperformance.com/4L80E_FAQ.html
4L80E Frequently Asked Questions
Why use a 4L80E and not a 4L60E?
The 4L80E is a descendent of the proven TH400 transmission design. It is very rugged, has much more potential for power capacity than any other overdrive transmission on the market. It has better power flow for big power applications, much more clutch capacity and apply area than the 4L60E. Simply put, from a design and engineering perspective, it’s a superior transmission in more powerful combinations. It’s not for everyone, but it is the unit of choice if you plan to make serious power.
What about HP loss or consumption?
The 4L80E will theoretically consume more HP than a 4L60E or other lighter duty transmission. It has a positive displacement pump as opposed to a variable displacement, it is heavier, has more rotating mass, more clutch drag, and on the surface would seem to “eat” HP. The biggest loss would seem to come from the heavier rotating mass. However what is widely misunderstood is that yes it’s heavier, but that alone doesn’t cause more power loss. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. So unless there is more friction involved, a heavier rotating mass doesn’t take any more HP to maintain the same speed as a much lighter mass. It DOES take more power to accelerate or decelerate the heavier mass. So what this means to the average enthusiast is the faster your car, the more power the transmission will consume. This applies to all transmissions. Power loss through the transmission will increase the faster you accelerate it. Our testing has shown that you will not see any significant power loss in a 11, 12 or 13 second combination. They simply aren’t accelerating fast enough that the rotating mass really comes into play. As you get into the low 10 second ¼ mile times, you may start to see some differences between a lightweight transmission and a heavier one. The thing to remember is, typically the lighter duty transmissions become a maintenance item at these power levels. More frequent rebuilds and failures. So for a small loss of power often equating to less than .05 second in Elapsed Time in the ¼ mile, you gain reliability. Unless you are racing for a record attempt where hundredths of a second are crucial, reliability is usually a more important factor.
What about size/weight of the 4L80E?
The 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components. Converter weights will be similar for a given combination with the same size converter. i.e. 12”, 9.5”, 8”.
The 4L80E is very close to the same length as a 4L60E. Oftentimes we have swapped these units out without cutting the driveshaft, just a yoke change. It is more robust in the area behind the bellhousing than most other units. This is also the area where the cooler lines attach. The biggest fitment issue we see is in the cooler line area. Part of the issue is that the cooler lines on a 4L80E are not angled but come straight out of the case. In some cars the early cores (91-96) fit better than the 97-up cores due to the cooler line placement. We know from various installs that the 4L80E fits fairly easily in the 67-69 GM F-Body cars (Camaros Firebirds, and typically X-body Nova’s), 70-81 F-Body. 98-02 F-Body. 68-72 A-Body (Chevelles, Cutlass, GTO, etc), as well as the 78-87 G-Body cars (Malibu, Regal, Cutlass). We have customers who have installed them in 64-67 Chevelles with minor floorpan work.
What are the differences in the cores?
4L80E production started in 1991 and continues today. 1991-1996 cores are essentially the same and interchangeable with some minor updates and differences. The 1991-1993 cores had a poor electrical connector at the pass-through of the case. Many have been updated by now, and if not they would need a new harness anyway. The cores do not have provisions for bolting on a manual lever position switch (MLPS). 1994-1996 cores had an updated EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid and some have the longer shifter shaft to allow use of the MLPS. All of the 1991-1996 cores have the “old” lubrication circuit design where both cooler lines attach to the case just behind the bellhousing. They also have the larger overdrive roller clutch, typically came with a 16 element instead of a 34 element intermediate sprag, and are of the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern used on SBC and BBC engines.
1997-1999 cores have the “new” lubrication circuit that has one cooler line attaching to the case just behind the bellhousing, and the return line attaches several inches further to the rear. This was supposed to be an improvement to the lube circuit that “center lubed” the transmission, allowing better lubrication to the rear planetaries. These units still had the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern.
2000-2003 cores are similar to the 1997-1999 cores yet they added a bellhousing bolt position to the 12 o’clock position of the bell for the new LS series engines.
2004-up cores had some slight valve body changes and another EPC change.
We build all year model cores and feel they can all be built and work well. In bigger power applications, we prefer the early larger OD roller clutch setup. The type of lubrication circuit doesn’t seem to be an issue when properly built.
What about using an early model core on an LS engine with the missing bellhousing bolt?
We have many customers using the early cores behind LS engines. You will still have 5 bellhousing bolts instead of 6, and this is the same thing as installing a TH400, TH350, or Powerglide behind these engines. In a perfect world we would use a late model core behind the LS engines and be able to use all the bellhousing bolts. However the core costs are still much higher on the later model cores because GM is still buying these back for their rebuild program.
4L80E Frequently Asked Questions
Why use a 4L80E and not a 4L60E?
The 4L80E is a descendent of the proven TH400 transmission design. It is very rugged, has much more potential for power capacity than any other overdrive transmission on the market. It has better power flow for big power applications, much more clutch capacity and apply area than the 4L60E. Simply put, from a design and engineering perspective, it’s a superior transmission in more powerful combinations. It’s not for everyone, but it is the unit of choice if you plan to make serious power.
What about HP loss or consumption?
The 4L80E will theoretically consume more HP than a 4L60E or other lighter duty transmission. It has a positive displacement pump as opposed to a variable displacement, it is heavier, has more rotating mass, more clutch drag, and on the surface would seem to “eat” HP. The biggest loss would seem to come from the heavier rotating mass. However what is widely misunderstood is that yes it’s heavier, but that alone doesn’t cause more power loss. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. So unless there is more friction involved, a heavier rotating mass doesn’t take any more HP to maintain the same speed as a much lighter mass. It DOES take more power to accelerate or decelerate the heavier mass. So what this means to the average enthusiast is the faster your car, the more power the transmission will consume. This applies to all transmissions. Power loss through the transmission will increase the faster you accelerate it. Our testing has shown that you will not see any significant power loss in a 11, 12 or 13 second combination. They simply aren’t accelerating fast enough that the rotating mass really comes into play. As you get into the low 10 second ¼ mile times, you may start to see some differences between a lightweight transmission and a heavier one. The thing to remember is, typically the lighter duty transmissions become a maintenance item at these power levels. More frequent rebuilds and failures. So for a small loss of power often equating to less than .05 second in Elapsed Time in the ¼ mile, you gain reliability. Unless you are racing for a record attempt where hundredths of a second are crucial, reliability is usually a more important factor.
What about size/weight of the 4L80E?
The 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components. Converter weights will be similar for a given combination with the same size converter. i.e. 12”, 9.5”, 8”.
The 4L80E is very close to the same length as a 4L60E. Oftentimes we have swapped these units out without cutting the driveshaft, just a yoke change. It is more robust in the area behind the bellhousing than most other units. This is also the area where the cooler lines attach. The biggest fitment issue we see is in the cooler line area. Part of the issue is that the cooler lines on a 4L80E are not angled but come straight out of the case. In some cars the early cores (91-96) fit better than the 97-up cores due to the cooler line placement. We know from various installs that the 4L80E fits fairly easily in the 67-69 GM F-Body cars (Camaros Firebirds, and typically X-body Nova’s), 70-81 F-Body. 98-02 F-Body. 68-72 A-Body (Chevelles, Cutlass, GTO, etc), as well as the 78-87 G-Body cars (Malibu, Regal, Cutlass). We have customers who have installed them in 64-67 Chevelles with minor floorpan work.
What are the differences in the cores?
4L80E production started in 1991 and continues today. 1991-1996 cores are essentially the same and interchangeable with some minor updates and differences. The 1991-1993 cores had a poor electrical connector at the pass-through of the case. Many have been updated by now, and if not they would need a new harness anyway. The cores do not have provisions for bolting on a manual lever position switch (MLPS). 1994-1996 cores had an updated EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid and some have the longer shifter shaft to allow use of the MLPS. All of the 1991-1996 cores have the “old” lubrication circuit design where both cooler lines attach to the case just behind the bellhousing. They also have the larger overdrive roller clutch, typically came with a 16 element instead of a 34 element intermediate sprag, and are of the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern used on SBC and BBC engines.
1997-1999 cores have the “new” lubrication circuit that has one cooler line attaching to the case just behind the bellhousing, and the return line attaches several inches further to the rear. This was supposed to be an improvement to the lube circuit that “center lubed” the transmission, allowing better lubrication to the rear planetaries. These units still had the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern.
2000-2003 cores are similar to the 1997-1999 cores yet they added a bellhousing bolt position to the 12 o’clock position of the bell for the new LS series engines.
2004-up cores had some slight valve body changes and another EPC change.
We build all year model cores and feel they can all be built and work well. In bigger power applications, we prefer the early larger OD roller clutch setup. The type of lubrication circuit doesn’t seem to be an issue when properly built.
What about using an early model core on an LS engine with the missing bellhousing bolt?
We have many customers using the early cores behind LS engines. You will still have 5 bellhousing bolts instead of 6, and this is the same thing as installing a TH400, TH350, or Powerglide behind these engines. In a perfect world we would use a late model core behind the LS engines and be able to use all the bellhousing bolts. However the core costs are still much higher on the later model cores because GM is still buying these back for their rebuild program.
12-10-2012, 08:18 PM
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http://jakesperformance.com/4L80E_FAQ.html
4L80E Frequently Asked Questions
Why use a 4L80E and not a 4L60E?
The 4L80E is a descendent of the proven TH400 transmission design. It is very rugged, has much more potential for power capacity than any other overdrive transmission on the market. It has better power flow for big power applications, much more clutch capacity and apply area than the 4L60E. Simply put, from a design and engineering perspective, it’s a superior transmission in more powerful combinations. It’s not for everyone, but it is the unit of choice if you plan to make serious power.
What about HP loss or consumption?
The 4L80E will theoretically consume more HP than a 4L60E or other lighter duty transmission. It has a positive displacement pump as opposed to a variable displacement, it is heavier, has more rotating mass, more clutch drag, and on the surface would seem to “eat” HP. The biggest loss would seem to come from the heavier rotating mass. However what is widely misunderstood is that yes it’s heavier, but that alone doesn’t cause more power loss. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. So unless there is more friction involved, a heavier rotating mass doesn’t take any more HP to maintain the same speed as a much lighter mass. It DOES take more power to accelerate or decelerate the heavier mass. So what this means to the average enthusiast is the faster your car, the more power the transmission will consume. This applies to all transmissions. Power loss through the transmission will increase the faster you accelerate it. Our testing has shown that you will not see any significant power loss in a 11, 12 or 13 second combination. They simply aren’t accelerating fast enough that the rotating mass really comes into play. As you get into the low 10 second ¼ mile times, you may start to see some differences between a lightweight transmission and a heavier one. The thing to remember is, typically the lighter duty transmissions become a maintenance item at these power levels. More frequent rebuilds and failures. So for a small loss of power often equating to less than .05 second in Elapsed Time in the ¼ mile, you gain reliability. Unless you are racing for a record attempt where hundredths of a second are crucial, reliability is usually a more important factor.
What about size/weight of the 4L80E?
The 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components. Converter weights will be similar for a given combination with the same size converter. i.e. 12”, 9.5”, 8”.
The 4L80E is very close to the same length as a 4L60E. Oftentimes we have swapped these units out without cutting the driveshaft, just a yoke change. It is more robust in the area behind the bellhousing than most other units. This is also the area where the cooler lines attach. The biggest fitment issue we see is in the cooler line area. Part of the issue is that the cooler lines on a 4L80E are not angled but come straight out of the case. In some cars the early cores (91-96) fit better than the 97-up cores due to the cooler line placement. We know from various installs that the 4L80E fits fairly easily in the 67-69 GM F-Body cars (Camaros Firebirds, and typically X-body Nova’s), 70-81 F-Body. 98-02 F-Body. 68-72 A-Body (Chevelles, Cutlass, GTO, etc), as well as the 78-87 G-Body cars (Malibu, Regal, Cutlass). We have customers who have installed them in 64-67 Chevelles with minor floorpan work.
What are the differences in the cores?
4L80E production started in 1991 and continues today. 1991-1996 cores are essentially the same and interchangeable with some minor updates and differences. The 1991-1993 cores had a poor electrical connector at the pass-through of the case. Many have been updated by now, and if not they would need a new harness anyway. The cores do not have provisions for bolting on a manual lever position switch (MLPS). 1994-1996 cores had an updated EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid and some have the longer shifter shaft to allow use of the MLPS. All of the 1991-1996 cores have the “old” lubrication circuit design where both cooler lines attach to the case just behind the bellhousing. They also have the larger overdrive roller clutch, typically came with a 16 element instead of a 34 element intermediate sprag, and are of the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern used on SBC and BBC engines.
1997-1999 cores have the “new” lubrication circuit that has one cooler line attaching to the case just behind the bellhousing, and the return line attaches several inches further to the rear. This was supposed to be an improvement to the lube circuit that “center lubed” the transmission, allowing better lubrication to the rear planetaries. These units still had the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern.
2000-2003 cores are similar to the 1997-1999 cores yet they added a bellhousing bolt position to the 12 o’clock position of the bell for the new LS series engines.
2004-up cores had some slight valve body changes and another EPC change.
We build all year model cores and feel they can all be built and work well. In bigger power applications, we prefer the early larger OD roller clutch setup. The type of lubrication circuit doesn’t seem to be an issue when properly built.
What about using an early model core on an LS engine with the missing bellhousing bolt?
We have many customers using the early cores behind LS engines. You will still have 5 bellhousing bolts instead of 6, and this is the same thing as installing a TH400, TH350, or Powerglide behind these engines. In a perfect world we would use a late model core behind the LS engines and be able to use all the bellhousing bolts. However the core costs are still much higher on the later model cores because GM is still buying these back for their rebuild program.
4L80E Frequently Asked Questions
Why use a 4L80E and not a 4L60E?
The 4L80E is a descendent of the proven TH400 transmission design. It is very rugged, has much more potential for power capacity than any other overdrive transmission on the market. It has better power flow for big power applications, much more clutch capacity and apply area than the 4L60E. Simply put, from a design and engineering perspective, it’s a superior transmission in more powerful combinations. It’s not for everyone, but it is the unit of choice if you plan to make serious power.
What about HP loss or consumption?
The 4L80E will theoretically consume more HP than a 4L60E or other lighter duty transmission. It has a positive displacement pump as opposed to a variable displacement, it is heavier, has more rotating mass, more clutch drag, and on the surface would seem to “eat” HP. The biggest loss would seem to come from the heavier rotating mass. However what is widely misunderstood is that yes it’s heavier, but that alone doesn’t cause more power loss. Remember an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. So unless there is more friction involved, a heavier rotating mass doesn’t take any more HP to maintain the same speed as a much lighter mass. It DOES take more power to accelerate or decelerate the heavier mass. So what this means to the average enthusiast is the faster your car, the more power the transmission will consume. This applies to all transmissions. Power loss through the transmission will increase the faster you accelerate it. Our testing has shown that you will not see any significant power loss in a 11, 12 or 13 second combination. They simply aren’t accelerating fast enough that the rotating mass really comes into play. As you get into the low 10 second ¼ mile times, you may start to see some differences between a lightweight transmission and a heavier one. The thing to remember is, typically the lighter duty transmissions become a maintenance item at these power levels. More frequent rebuilds and failures. So for a small loss of power often equating to less than .05 second in Elapsed Time in the ¼ mile, you gain reliability. Unless you are racing for a record attempt where hundredths of a second are crucial, reliability is usually a more important factor.
What about size/weight of the 4L80E?
The 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in typical configuration. A 4L60E weighs approx. 135-140 lbs, a TH400 weighs 135 lbs, a TH350 weighs 125 lbs. All weights are without converter and dry with stock components. Converter weights will be similar for a given combination with the same size converter. i.e. 12”, 9.5”, 8”.
The 4L80E is very close to the same length as a 4L60E. Oftentimes we have swapped these units out without cutting the driveshaft, just a yoke change. It is more robust in the area behind the bellhousing than most other units. This is also the area where the cooler lines attach. The biggest fitment issue we see is in the cooler line area. Part of the issue is that the cooler lines on a 4L80E are not angled but come straight out of the case. In some cars the early cores (91-96) fit better than the 97-up cores due to the cooler line placement. We know from various installs that the 4L80E fits fairly easily in the 67-69 GM F-Body cars (Camaros Firebirds, and typically X-body Nova’s), 70-81 F-Body. 98-02 F-Body. 68-72 A-Body (Chevelles, Cutlass, GTO, etc), as well as the 78-87 G-Body cars (Malibu, Regal, Cutlass). We have customers who have installed them in 64-67 Chevelles with minor floorpan work.
What are the differences in the cores?
4L80E production started in 1991 and continues today. 1991-1996 cores are essentially the same and interchangeable with some minor updates and differences. The 1991-1993 cores had a poor electrical connector at the pass-through of the case. Many have been updated by now, and if not they would need a new harness anyway. The cores do not have provisions for bolting on a manual lever position switch (MLPS). 1994-1996 cores had an updated EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid and some have the longer shifter shaft to allow use of the MLPS. All of the 1991-1996 cores have the “old” lubrication circuit design where both cooler lines attach to the case just behind the bellhousing. They also have the larger overdrive roller clutch, typically came with a 16 element instead of a 34 element intermediate sprag, and are of the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern used on SBC and BBC engines.
1997-1999 cores have the “new” lubrication circuit that has one cooler line attaching to the case just behind the bellhousing, and the return line attaches several inches further to the rear. This was supposed to be an improvement to the lube circuit that “center lubed” the transmission, allowing better lubrication to the rear planetaries. These units still had the traditional bellhousing bolt pattern.
2000-2003 cores are similar to the 1997-1999 cores yet they added a bellhousing bolt position to the 12 o’clock position of the bell for the new LS series engines.
2004-up cores had some slight valve body changes and another EPC change.
We build all year model cores and feel they can all be built and work well. In bigger power applications, we prefer the early larger OD roller clutch setup. The type of lubrication circuit doesn’t seem to be an issue when properly built.
What about using an early model core on an LS engine with the missing bellhousing bolt?
We have many customers using the early cores behind LS engines. You will still have 5 bellhousing bolts instead of 6, and this is the same thing as installing a TH400, TH350, or Powerglide behind these engines. In a perfect world we would use a late model core behind the LS engines and be able to use all the bellhousing bolts. However the core costs are still much higher on the later model cores because GM is still buying these back for their rebuild program.
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12-10-2012, 11:29 PM
#8
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Now all you guys need to do is.
Call Greg @ FTI for a converter,jakes for a trans.Have the converter drop shipped to jake so they can dyno them as a package.The hardest part is waiting for everything to show up.
Call Greg @ FTI for a converter,jakes for a trans.Have the converter drop shipped to jake so they can dyno them as a package.The hardest part is waiting for everything to show up.
