4l60E Transmission difference 6 cyl
12-12-2012, 05:39 PM
#1
4l60E Transmission difference 6 cyl Is there any difference between a 4l60E out of a 2001 firebird with a 6 cylinder and a 2002 LS1? Any issues or differen in gear ratios, or something with the computer that would prohibit me from grabbing the trans from a firebird and putting it in my 02 camaro?
12-12-2012, 05:56 PM
#2
Moderator
No, there are no significant differences; the internals are the same.
The ONLY differences will be in the size of a few holes in the separator plate and perhaps the stiffness of the springs in the 1-2 accumulator. The V6 is thereby "tuned" for softer shifts. The separator plate can have a few holes drilled larger to make the shifts more firm. Better yet would be to install the Transgo HD2 shift kit which gives you the drilling directions, firmer springs and boosts the line pressure so that the frictions and band last longer with higher HP.
My mistake: While the "internals" are the same, there are significant differences in the input shaft, pump and bell housing which make a V6 trans unsuitable.
The ONLY differences will be in the size of a few holes in the separator plate and perhaps the stiffness of the springs in the 1-2 accumulator. The V6 is thereby "tuned" for softer shifts. The separator plate can have a few holes drilled larger to make the shifts more firm. Better yet would be to install the Transgo HD2 shift kit which gives you the drilling directions, firmer springs and boosts the line pressure so that the frictions and band last longer with higher HP.
My mistake: While the "internals" are the same, there are significant differences in the input shaft, pump and bell housing which make a V6 trans unsuitable.
Last edited by mrvedit; 12-16-2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Corrected my mistake
12-12-2012, 09:33 PM
#5
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the bell housing and input shaft are completely different also the accumulator piston is plastic instead of aluminum which is prone to cracking and will cause a soft 1-2 shift but other wise they are the same.
12-12-2012, 09:42 PM
#6
Moderator
Look at the trans from the V6; if the bell housing has a bolt hole at the 12 o'Clock position, then it is a 300mm unit compatible with an LS engine. Otherwise a lot of parts have to change; more than the trans is worth.
12-13-2012, 11:40 AM
#7
Oops, I thought all '98 and later would be 300mm input shaft. Am I wrong?
Look at the trans from the V6; if the bell housing has a bolt hole at the 12 o'Clock position, then it is a 300mm unit compatible with an LS engine. Otherwise a lot of parts have to change; more than the trans is worth.
Look at the trans from the V6; if the bell housing has a bolt hole at the 12 o'Clock position, then it is a 300mm unit compatible with an LS engine. Otherwise a lot of parts have to change; more than the trans is worth.
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12-16-2012, 11:40 AM
#10
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the pump stator and input shaft are different plus valvebody calibration are different gm switched to the platic piston in all 4l60es around 97 gear ratios are the same but v8 have better oiling to the planetarys build your ls unit it be cheaper than swapping parts
12-16-2012, 04:30 PM
#12
Moderator
I think he is referring to the rear planet "Oil Deflector" which the ATSG lists as "High Output Models Only".
Please correct me, but my understanding is that this had little/no benefit and GM stopped including it around 2001.
Please correct me, but my understanding is that this had little/no benefit and GM stopped including it around 2001.
12-16-2012, 04:30 PM
#13
Moderator
I think he is referring to the rear planet "Oil Deflector" which the ATSG lists as "High Output Models Only".
Please correct me, but my understanding is that this had little/no benefit and GM stopped including it around 2001.
Please correct me, but my understanding is that this had little/no benefit and GM stopped including it around 2001.
12-16-2017, 09:03 AM
#14
On The Tree
No, there are no significant differences; the internals are the same.
The ONLY differences will be in the size of a few holes in the separator plate and perhaps the stiffness of the springs in the 1-2 accumulator. The V6 is thereby "tuned" for softer shifts. The separator plate can have a few holes drilled larger to make the shifts more firm. Better yet would be to install the Transgo HD2 shift kit which gives you the drilling directions, firmer springs and boosts the line pressure so that the frictions and band last longer with higher HP.
My mistake: While the "internals" are the same, there are significant differences in the input shaft, pump and bell housing which make a V6 trans unsuitable.
The ONLY differences will be in the size of a few holes in the separator plate and perhaps the stiffness of the springs in the 1-2 accumulator. The V6 is thereby "tuned" for softer shifts. The separator plate can have a few holes drilled larger to make the shifts more firm. Better yet would be to install the Transgo HD2 shift kit which gives you the drilling directions, firmer springs and boosts the line pressure so that the frictions and band last longer with higher HP.
My mistake: While the "internals" are the same, there are significant differences in the input shaft, pump and bell housing which make a V6 trans unsuitable.
I got the Corvette Servo and Sonnax Boost Valve from summit. I am going to go ahead and get the Transgo HD2 shift kit and also the Transgo 46-PLT-96 separator plate. Since a boost valve comes with the HD2 kit, I will send the Sonnax back.
I am not looking to chirp the wheels. Therefore, all I need to do is to use the smallest drill size that is listed in the instruction. Correct?
If I use the smallest holes listed, will I still see a difference in shift quality - little firmer?
Thanks
Waid
Last edited by waid786; 12-16-2017 at 09:16 AM.
12-16-2017, 09:49 AM
#15
Moderator
Thanks for posting on this thread; hopefully others will give you additional guidance.
First I would keep and use the Sonnax Boost valve because its o-rings help seal and control pressure better. It might not make much difference in a new pump, but if the bore is worn from many miles, it will help.
Glad you decided to get a new separator plate; in your PMs you mentioned wanting firmer shifts and just a bigger boost valve won't make that much difference. Installing the HD2 kit is not absolutely necessary, but will help too.
Also, I recall a pro recommending AGAINST the Vette servo unless you also drill the separator plate to accommodate it. Cars with the Vette servo come with a slightly differently drilled plate. Unfortunately I do not know which hole(s) to drill for the Vette servo. Perhaps one of the pros can enlighten us. I suspect The HD2 instructions drill the plate to accommodate either servo. (The HD2's accumulator pressure spring does depend upon the servo size.)
For the relatively mild 4.8L you plan to run, I would drill the separator plate to the smallest values in the HD2 instructions, only exception being to drill the 2-3 Shift (3rd apply) hole to .101. Install zero or at most one HD2 washer in the 1-2 accumulator.
My last suggestion for the HD2 kit is to skip Step 5 on Page 2 (Gear Command) to reduce the chance that an unintended downshift overrevs the engine.
Installing the HD2 kit will be very educational and make you much more comfortable working on transmissions.
I recall you saying you have the 4L60E on your bench which certainly makes it easier to work on. What year is it and how many miles are on it. And originally from a V6 engine.
First I would keep and use the Sonnax Boost valve because its o-rings help seal and control pressure better. It might not make much difference in a new pump, but if the bore is worn from many miles, it will help.
Glad you decided to get a new separator plate; in your PMs you mentioned wanting firmer shifts and just a bigger boost valve won't make that much difference. Installing the HD2 kit is not absolutely necessary, but will help too.
Also, I recall a pro recommending AGAINST the Vette servo unless you also drill the separator plate to accommodate it. Cars with the Vette servo come with a slightly differently drilled plate. Unfortunately I do not know which hole(s) to drill for the Vette servo. Perhaps one of the pros can enlighten us. I suspect The HD2 instructions drill the plate to accommodate either servo. (The HD2's accumulator pressure spring does depend upon the servo size.)
For the relatively mild 4.8L you plan to run, I would drill the separator plate to the smallest values in the HD2 instructions, only exception being to drill the 2-3 Shift (3rd apply) hole to .101. Install zero or at most one HD2 washer in the 1-2 accumulator.
My last suggestion for the HD2 kit is to skip Step 5 on Page 2 (Gear Command) to reduce the chance that an unintended downshift overrevs the engine.
Installing the HD2 kit will be very educational and make you much more comfortable working on transmissions.
I recall you saying you have the 4L60E on your bench which certainly makes it easier to work on. What year is it and how many miles are on it. And originally from a V6 engine.
12-16-2017, 10:40 AM
#16
Thanks for posting on this thread; hopefully others will give you additional guidance.
First I would keep and use the Sonnax Boost valve because its o-rings help seal and control pressure better. It might not make much difference in a new pump, but if the bore is worn from many miles, it will help.
Glad you decided to get a new separator plate; in your PMs you mentioned wanting firmer shifts and just a bigger boost valve won't make that much difference. Installing the HD2 kit is not absolutely necessary, but will help too.
Also, I recall a pro recommending AGAINST the Vette servo unless you also drill the separator plate to accommodate it. Cars with the Vette servo come with a slightly differently drilled plate. Unfortunately I do not know which hole(s) to drill for the Vette servo. Perhaps one of the pros can enlighten us. I suspect The HD2 instructions drill the plate to accommodate either servo. (The HD2's accumulator pressure spring does depend upon the servo size.)
For the relatively mild 4.8L you plan to run, I would drill the separator plate to the smallest values in the HD2 instructions, only exception being to drill the 2-3 Shift (3rd apply) hole to .101. Install zero or at most one HD2 washer in the 1-2 accumulator.
My last suggestion for the HD2 kit is to skip Step 5 on Page 2 (Gear Command) to reduce the chance that an unintended downshift overrevs the engine.
Installing the HD2 kit will be very educational and make you much more comfortable working on transmissions.
I recall you saying you have the 4L60E on your bench which certainly makes it easier to work on. What year is it and how many miles are on it. And originally from a V6 engine.
First I would keep and use the Sonnax Boost valve because its o-rings help seal and control pressure better. It might not make much difference in a new pump, but if the bore is worn from many miles, it will help.
Glad you decided to get a new separator plate; in your PMs you mentioned wanting firmer shifts and just a bigger boost valve won't make that much difference. Installing the HD2 kit is not absolutely necessary, but will help too.
Also, I recall a pro recommending AGAINST the Vette servo unless you also drill the separator plate to accommodate it. Cars with the Vette servo come with a slightly differently drilled plate. Unfortunately I do not know which hole(s) to drill for the Vette servo. Perhaps one of the pros can enlighten us. I suspect The HD2 instructions drill the plate to accommodate either servo. (The HD2's accumulator pressure spring does depend upon the servo size.)
For the relatively mild 4.8L you plan to run, I would drill the separator plate to the smallest values in the HD2 instructions, only exception being to drill the 2-3 Shift (3rd apply) hole to .101. Install zero or at most one HD2 washer in the 1-2 accumulator.
My last suggestion for the HD2 kit is to skip Step 5 on Page 2 (Gear Command) to reduce the chance that an unintended downshift overrevs the engine.
Installing the HD2 kit will be very educational and make you much more comfortable working on transmissions.
I recall you saying you have the 4L60E on your bench which certainly makes it easier to work on. What year is it and how many miles are on it. And originally from a V6 engine.
So what he ends up with is the performance of the SK kit at the price of the HD2 kit. Wasted $50 plus the cost of the Sonnax valve.
Send the Sonnax valve back, drill all the holes as the kit instructs except 2-3 to .093 to .110, and 1-2 to .070 to .082. And DO NOT use spacers in the Accumulator. Put the blue spring in the housing, put the spring seat upside down (opposite as they show it), then the piston as shown, then the orange spring.
Dana from Pro Built suggested this accumulator set up to me 10 years ago.
Thats about the time I stopped taking things BACK apart because the 1-2 shift was ridiculous and not progressive with the other shifts.
You make 1-2 too hard, it makes 2-3 feel too soft.
The SK kit and boost valve would have been money spent wisely.
PM me if you want to sell that 1-2 valve, seriously I want the valve if you don't use it.
12-16-2017, 10:43 AM
#17
On The Tree
Forgive me for being totally newb when it comes to automatics. This is where I am getting confused. How will it help?
So if I drill the separator plate, use Corvette servo, I can bring the V6 4L60 to V8 spec without the use of the HD kit?
My 4.8 completely stock with original cam. I did get the PCM flashed and I was told it now has a minor tune in it like timing adjustment.
The V6 4L60E has little higher miles than I though. It has 83,000 and came out of a 1998 S10 4.3V6. I am off work starting next Thursday Dec 21 to Monday January 1st. I have everything I need so I should be able to finish the swap in a week.
By the way, check out my electric steering post below. I will be doing this conversion but later.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...er-issues.html
Thank you again.
Waid
My 4.8 completely stock with original cam. I did get the PCM flashed and I was told it now has a minor tune in it like timing adjustment.
By the way, check out my electric steering post below. I will be doing this conversion but later.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...er-issues.html
Thank you again.
Waid
12-16-2017, 10:51 AM
#18
12-16-2017, 02:16 PM
#20
Moderator
Jay's point that you would be wasting some of the HD2 kit is true. But considering it only costs $80, that might not be an issue. IIRC it does include new separator plate gaskets (value $10) drop the difference to $40.
I am glad of Jay's strong "DO NOT use spacers in the Accumulator" suggestion because the HD2 instructions kinda imply the opposite. Excessive harsh shifts are not only annoying, they break U-joints, output shafts, rear ends, etc.
I am glad of Jay's strong "DO NOT use spacers in the Accumulator" suggestion because the HD2 instructions kinda imply the opposite. Excessive harsh shifts are not only annoying, they break U-joints, output shafts, rear ends, etc.