GM LT4 Intake and GM LT4 Heads
12-14-2012, 04:09 PM
#1
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GM LT4 Intake and GM LT4 Heads Category: Engine - Intake/Fuel
Price: $0
Part Fits: 93-02 Chevrolet Camaro, 93-02 Pontiac Firebird, Corvette
Location (State): IL
Item Condition: Used
Shipping Information: Item Can be Shipped
Engine: LT1/LT4
LS Engine?: Non-LS Part
Thanks
Rob
12-14-2012, 04:44 PM
#3
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12-15-2012, 09:32 PM
#5
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I am hoping this will reach most of the people that inquired about the heads via PM as I erased some of your PM's so I cannot respond though them.
In any case, I notified all of you that the heads were sold. Now that buyer is flaking out on me. So I will offer anyone who wants them the same deal I did for him and that is 1000.00 shipping and paypal fees included.
Sorry for the confusion but I thought they were sold.
In any case, I notified all of you that the heads were sold. Now that buyer is flaking out on me. So I will offer anyone who wants them the same deal I did for him and that is 1000.00 shipping and paypal fees included.
Sorry for the confusion but I thought they were sold.
12-16-2012, 12:17 AM
#6
Well I had every intention on buying them I just wanted some more questions answered but when you go out and blast someone like that I'd rather not give you the business. I'm sure you'll have no problem selling them but again...I was ready to buy. I'm sorry you felt like I was flaking out I absolutely was not...until you made a post like this. Pretty shady thing to say.
12-16-2012, 12:49 AM
#7
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How many of you guys would ship a set of heads and a intake to a address that is not confirmed by Paypal? Can you say SCAM!! It happens EVERYDAY someone says "I want it shipped to my bother or fathers business" or some other BS address. Then files a claim with paypal that they never got thier stuff and claims that it should have been sent to thier confirmed address. As soon as I said I would not ship to a NON confirmed address you flaked. My guess is you either dont have the cash or your trying to pull a scam.
If anybody can explain how to post PM's to a thread I would be happy to do so. That way anybody who wants to can see exactly what went on through the course of the day via PM's can.
And your right I will not have any problem selling them.
If anybody can explain how to post PM's to a thread I would be happy to do so. That way anybody who wants to can see exactly what went on through the course of the day via PM's can.
And your right I will not have any problem selling them.
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12-16-2012, 10:53 AM
#8
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Man that's rough. za355tx has a trader rating of 78. You have a trader rating of 0. I understand your concern with Paypal though as they are owned and operated by Satan. I just think to imply that za355tx is a scammer when he's a respected member of this board with a solid reputation for trading fairly was over the top.
12-16-2012, 11:07 AM
#9
You can post up whatever you want Rob makes no difference to me. I work 5 feet from the shipping dock at my job so yeah that's a better option than LEAVING IT ON MY PORCH ALL DAY. Seriously man what's wrong with you...and now you threaten to call my work and tell them I'm some scam artist??? They're going to tell you to take a hike. They know me and they know I send stuff to work all the time. I was trying to avoid them getting stolen and in the process save sellers a few bucks by being able to ship to a business address. There's a reason my feedback is perfect...because I'm an honest buyer and seller. I NEVER FLAKED OUT, I NEVER SAID I WAS NOT GOING TO BUY THEM, NOT UNTIL YOU BLASTED ME.
I told you I did not want them sent to my house, I didn't want them outside all day, who would??? I told you I would try to get my work address confirmed but that it was going to take a few days to go through...you said no that's ok just put a note in the notes section when sending the money so paypal knows why it's being send to an unconfirmed address. Then I asked a few more questions since you didn't seem to know much about the heads after all. You don't have flow numbers, you don't have dyno numbers, you don't have reciepts for the "work" on them, yet I was still going to buy them.
You're upset because I didn't blindly send you $1000 and send it to a location where I didn't feel comfortable leaving them all day when I can send them to my work and I will be there 5 feet away when they arrive.
I really don't know why you are taking this personally threatening to call my work and then sending me negative feedback...which by the way is against LS1tech rules since no deal ever took place. You prematurely got upset, even though there was never a reason to, and it costed you a sale with me. Move on man it's not the end of the world.
I told you I did not want them sent to my house, I didn't want them outside all day, who would??? I told you I would try to get my work address confirmed but that it was going to take a few days to go through...you said no that's ok just put a note in the notes section when sending the money so paypal knows why it's being send to an unconfirmed address. Then I asked a few more questions since you didn't seem to know much about the heads after all. You don't have flow numbers, you don't have dyno numbers, you don't have reciepts for the "work" on them, yet I was still going to buy them.
You're upset because I didn't blindly send you $1000 and send it to a location where I didn't feel comfortable leaving them all day when I can send them to my work and I will be there 5 feet away when they arrive.
I really don't know why you are taking this personally threatening to call my work and then sending me negative feedback...which by the way is against LS1tech rules since no deal ever took place. You prematurely got upset, even though there was never a reason to, and it costed you a sale with me. Move on man it's not the end of the world.
12-16-2012, 11:22 AM
#10
Man that's rough. za355tx has a trader rating of 78. You have a trader rating of 0. I understand your concern with Paypal though as they are owned and operated by Satan. I just think to imply that za355tx is a scammer when he's a respected member of this board with a solid reputation for trading fairly was over the top.
I understand his concern with paypal as well, that's why I offered to get my work address confirmed but told him it would take a few days to go through. Then he told me that wasn't needed and to just put a note in the note section when sending the money so that paypal would have record of why it was being shipped to another address. He was ok with that yesterday then the switch flipped and then he started accusing me of trying to scam him???? Makes no sense to me. 5 years here, perfect feedback with many transactions, and the guy with 84 posts, and no feedback here is calling me a scammer????? Seriously man????
12-16-2012, 06:09 PM
#11
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Its funny how you put one thing in here and another in you PM's. For example you stated in a pm I just read and replyed to that you will just get your buddy the moderator to remove negitive feedback. No wonder you dont have any negitive feedback if you can get your friend to remove it when someone posts it. Next. Where do you keep getting this BS about them sitting on your porch all day. Its a package valued and insured at 1000 dollars. UPS calls that a High Value Package and even labels it as such so it is not left laying around either at your home on the porch or thier building. It is secured at all times while in transit. They dont even leave them on the trucks overnight if they cannot be delevered. The lock them in a cage. A High value package is not delevered unless there is someone to sign for it. Again they dont just leave it on the porch. If you were worried about it all you have to do is contact UPS with your tracking number and instruct them that you will pick it up at thier location. You keep going on and on about sending money out blindly. Your not sending out money "blindly" you have paypal on your side. The bottom line is if a package is sent to a NON Paypal Confired address (which is what you wanted). All you have to do is tell them you never got it and the seller is screwed out of the contents of the package and the money. It happens everyday and is one of the biggest scams with paypal. Yesterday morning you wanted to send a deposit and send the rest later in the day when you could get it. This is another scam that is run through paypal. The scammer sends a small deposit. Then the rest later in the day. The seller cannot use the same tracking number for both payments. So after the buyer recieves the items he notifes Paypal that they recieved one package but not the other and disputes the charges to get the bulk of their money back and keep the items. Its just another Paypal scam that goes on EVERYDay. You also seem to forget that after you could not figure out how to send the money. you told me not to wait on you. I did wait all day in fact and tried to awnser every one of your questions. I even sent you more pictures that you requested to your email address. Still nothing from your end. So at 9;32 last night I posted in this thread that they were back for sale before the other people who are interested lost interest. There is no way for anybody to know who I was dealing with at that point. Noone knew that untill you posted here that it was you. The bottom line here is the way you conducted yourself yesterday Via pm's led me to believe that it was very possible that I was getting involved in a scam. Then today I recieve multiple PM's from people who had the same experience with you. IE as soon as they told you no way would they send stuff to a NON confirmed address you flaked out on them too. As far as feedback I had no idea it even existed untill you told me about it yesterday. I have bought 2 things on this site a torque converter back in july of 2010 and a Strange rear end assembly back in march or april of this year. Why they did not leave me feedback or me them is probably the same reason. We did not know it existed. Untill you mentioned it yesterday I had no idea it did. But what use is it anyways if the moderators will remove it for people who are thier friends as you have said is being done. Its worthless if thats the case and means NOTHING. Especially yours since you admitt that your friends remove the negitive ones for you.
During the course of the day you went from wanting them and making a deal for them. To bringing up the first scam with the deposit deal. Whether you knew you were talking about a scam that goes on who knows. Yes it could have been a innocent mistake. But then not too much later after I told you to pay all at once. You bring up scam number two. The NON confirmed address deal. At that point you have laid 2 scams out in a matter of a couple of hours. I tried to work with you and give you the benifit of the doubt but by 9:30 last night we had gotten nowhere so I offed them back up for sale. I am not taking anything personal. I am just not going to get myself involved in a potential scam.
During the course of the day you went from wanting them and making a deal for them. To bringing up the first scam with the deposit deal. Whether you knew you were talking about a scam that goes on who knows. Yes it could have been a innocent mistake. But then not too much later after I told you to pay all at once. You bring up scam number two. The NON confirmed address deal. At that point you have laid 2 scams out in a matter of a couple of hours. I tried to work with you and give you the benifit of the doubt but by 9:30 last night we had gotten nowhere so I offed them back up for sale. I am not taking anything personal. I am just not going to get myself involved in a potential scam.
Last edited by Doughboy692; 12-16-2012 at 06:18 PM.
12-16-2012, 09:53 PM
#12
It sounds like you have been scammed at some point, or someone you know, or maybe you are the scammer and that's why you know all this. But the point is you threw a hissy fit because I didn't jump to buy. I had every intention of buying but I guess you're gonna believe what you're gonna believe.
As far as the moderator thing goes, I've never had someone leave bad feedback before...but being a good tech member I know the rules which you obviously don't. YOU CAN'T LEAVE BAD FEEDBACK JUST BECAUSE A DEAL FELL THROUGH...lol...especially when it's your own fault Rob. It's only for transactions that took place, and if you'll notice I have not given you bad feedback...reason being no deal ever took place so it's unwarranted. You may not like it but those are the rules around here. Maybe that's why you're so upset, which is childish...get over it man, move on, you screwed up and cost yourself a deal with me so just forget about it. I understand you're not happy you didn't sell the heads but if they're so easy to sell then why are you so stuck on me? Grow up and sell them to someone else simple as that.
I don't know if maybe you're just having a bad run but life it too short to get so pissed about something that means so little. You didn't lose any money, you didn't receive a bad part, you just didn't make a sale and you're letting it get to you way too much.
I said before you can post whatever you want but nowone is going to care because they'll see how petty you're being. Best thing you can do is just let it go and try to sell them to someone else. Good luck Rob I sincerely wish you the best in getting them sold. I just wish it could have been to me.
Zach
As far as the moderator thing goes, I've never had someone leave bad feedback before...but being a good tech member I know the rules which you obviously don't. YOU CAN'T LEAVE BAD FEEDBACK JUST BECAUSE A DEAL FELL THROUGH...lol...especially when it's your own fault Rob. It's only for transactions that took place, and if you'll notice I have not given you bad feedback...reason being no deal ever took place so it's unwarranted. You may not like it but those are the rules around here. Maybe that's why you're so upset, which is childish...get over it man, move on, you screwed up and cost yourself a deal with me so just forget about it. I understand you're not happy you didn't sell the heads but if they're so easy to sell then why are you so stuck on me? Grow up and sell them to someone else simple as that.
I don't know if maybe you're just having a bad run but life it too short to get so pissed about something that means so little. You didn't lose any money, you didn't receive a bad part, you just didn't make a sale and you're letting it get to you way too much.
I said before you can post whatever you want but nowone is going to care because they'll see how petty you're being. Best thing you can do is just let it go and try to sell them to someone else. Good luck Rob I sincerely wish you the best in getting them sold. I just wish it could have been to me.
Zach
12-21-2012, 11:41 PM
#13
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I work 5 feet from our shipping dock...that's why I have stuff shipped there. And the "excuse" for not wanting to ship stuff to my house...I'm sorry I don't want $1000 worth of parts sitting on my porch all day out in the open where anyone can take them. There is no scam here I wanted to make sure I knew everything I could about the heads and intake before I sent someone with ZERO feedback that kind of money. Then you got pissed because I didn't send you the money right away...that sounds real shady to me...but I was willing to give it a shot anyway, until you blasted me in your thread. Believe me I have the money and yes as buyer you try to get the best possible deal you can...why wouldn't you? It's called negotiating. You need to stop acting like a child and get over it. I'll say it again I was ready to buy I got on the computer with the intention of sending you the money...but you had already starting calling me a flake which I'm not sure why exactly, because I want to send the stuff somewhere else where it won't get stolen? Good one man. You can call my work all you want they know who I am and they know I have stuff shipped there all the time. They'll tell you to take a hike.
Lastly you must not know how this site works...but you can't just send someone negative feedback if a deal never took place so I'll get in touch with a few friends of mine who are moderators to get that taken off.
Have a nice day scamming someone else.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
You flaked out. EXACTLY what you said you would not do. Bottom line is as soon as I said no way to sending them to a non confirmed address you "flaked" My guess is you are either trying to pull a scam and get me to send them to a non confirmed address. So you can then file a claim with paypal to get the heads, intake and your money back. Or you just dont have the money period. You are most likely one of the internet strokes that talks a big game and is really just some dumb *** high school kid who jerks people around for fun. I am sure the people at will be interested in the fact that you are trying to use thier address to pull a scam. I can gaurentee you I will be on the phone with them next week to let them know that you are trying to use them and thier address to pull scams. In the meantime since you are so concerned about feedback on this site enjoy the negitive feedback you will be recieving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Hey man count me out on the heads. I just saw what you posted on your thread. Totally crappy thing to do and say. I just wanted to see some more pics and get a little more info before I sent someone $1000 who has no feedback here. I was actually pretty excited and ready to send money but I'm very glad I saw your post first...saved me alot of money. I'm not sure why you would go out of your way to say something like that but you definitely turned me away. Sucks I was looking foward to having these.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
They were on a .060 over LT1 with the crank stroked .015 (Nhra stock eliminator crank) with a 306roller cam and valve train, long tube headers 3.73 gear and 3600 Yank converter, was tuned by Ed Wright of Fastchips ect ect. It ran fine I drove it all the time . I have two racecars so there was never a need to take it to the track this was just a car for me to horse around with on the street. There is no way for me to tell you "how well" these heads are going to do on your engine. There are just too many variables everything from the quality of ring seal and machne work to what cam you have and where you degree it in at and a million more that play into how a engine perfroms. Alot of people, especially the young guys think its just a matter of slapping some parts together and there is alot more to it than that. Are they as good as the AFR 227 heads NO are they better than a stock LT1 or a stock LT4 head Yes. I will send a couple of pictures over to the email address you gave me. If you notice they are matched to a 12367777 GM perfromance parts gasket. If you take that same gasket and put it up against a stock head you will see a major difference. In another picture you will notice that the top of the port is matched to the exhaust gasket and the bottom of the port is not all hogged out to the gasket. My understanding from talking to porters familiar with the LT heads is the worst thing you can do for exhaust flow is cut the floor out. In any case take a look and decide for yourself if you want them. If I dont hear anything by morning I am going to let someone else have them. I already told others who inquired that they were sold when you said you wanted them and would not "flake" out and offered to send a deposit.
Take care
Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
What I meant by set up was what can did you run, cubic inches? And how did it perform? I understand these are ltx only, I've been around a while and had like 12 f bodies. I'm just trying to figure out how well these heads are going to do. Email is
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
What email address do you want the pictures to? They have the LT4 valves. These heads only work on a LT based engine they will not work on any other "set up". It ran fine people build these engines all of the time. If you dont have a LT1(93-97) based engine they will not work for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
The on the website is my brother Jake. I work there with my brother and my dad. Pretty sweet getting to hang out with them everyday and make money doing it. I hope it's not too much trouble but could I see a few pics of the intake and exhaust ports to see the work? I just don't want to have to have someone clean them up after I buy them. Also was curious if the valves are the stock LT4 valves or if they were ever swapped out? What kind of set up did you run with these heads and how did it run?
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
I checked on the company that you want it sent to. There is someone there with your last name but its a different first name. Is that you? If you want send it but put a note in the paypal payment about where you want it sent and why you want it sent there. I dont have any paperwork as they were done several years ago. Let me know what you want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Hmmm. That's going to be an obstacle. My house is set up in a way that when packages are left...they are wide open and visible to anyone driving by and there's no way I'd let $1000 worth of parts sit on my porch while I'm at work. It will take some time to get my work address verified. Last time I tried it never went through. I'll give it another go however don't wait up for me if they sell they sell but I can't send any money until I know the address can be verified. I'll be in touch...oh and I meant to ask are the heads fully ported or just port matched? Do you have any paperwork or receipts from the work?
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Tonite is fine. I will only ship to a Paypal Verified address. I am sorry but I have to do it this way to protect myself. You would not believe how many scammers there are on the internet now days who will have you ship it to some other address so they can try and get a refund through Paypal because it was not shipped to their vierifed address. If you want it sent to a business just make that your paypal verifed address before you send the money tonite. I hope you understand.
Take care
Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Cool. I can send you the money tonight if that's ok or if you need some of it now I can send a deposit. Let me know if that's necessary. The ship to address is
It's a business so that should save you a few bucks on shipping. Business name is . Let me know if you need a deposit now or if you're ok with waiting until tonight for the money. I've got plenty of feedback, all positive, and I don't flake when I say I'm going to buy something. Thanks Rob.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Can you do $1k shipped? That's a little farther than I wanted to go but I'd like an LT4 top end for my firehawk. Let me know if you can swing that.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Take $800???
No but I would go 1000 plus shipping and I will cover the paypal fees out of my end if you are interested.
Let me know
OK. Send me your address. How do you want to pay? If its paypal my email is .com
Take care
Rob
__________________
1994 Firehawk #40
PM's copied exactly except
The only thing that has been deleted from these PM's are names, email address and business names. I see no hissy fit untill I put them back up for sale.
Lastly you must not know how this site works...but you can't just send someone negative feedback if a deal never took place so I'll get in touch with a few friends of mine who are moderators to get that taken off.
Have a nice day scamming someone else.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
You flaked out. EXACTLY what you said you would not do. Bottom line is as soon as I said no way to sending them to a non confirmed address you "flaked" My guess is you are either trying to pull a scam and get me to send them to a non confirmed address. So you can then file a claim with paypal to get the heads, intake and your money back. Or you just dont have the money period. You are most likely one of the internet strokes that talks a big game and is really just some dumb *** high school kid who jerks people around for fun. I am sure the people at will be interested in the fact that you are trying to use thier address to pull a scam. I can gaurentee you I will be on the phone with them next week to let them know that you are trying to use them and thier address to pull scams. In the meantime since you are so concerned about feedback on this site enjoy the negitive feedback you will be recieving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Hey man count me out on the heads. I just saw what you posted on your thread. Totally crappy thing to do and say. I just wanted to see some more pics and get a little more info before I sent someone $1000 who has no feedback here. I was actually pretty excited and ready to send money but I'm very glad I saw your post first...saved me alot of money. I'm not sure why you would go out of your way to say something like that but you definitely turned me away. Sucks I was looking foward to having these.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
They were on a .060 over LT1 with the crank stroked .015 (Nhra stock eliminator crank) with a 306roller cam and valve train, long tube headers 3.73 gear and 3600 Yank converter, was tuned by Ed Wright of Fastchips ect ect. It ran fine I drove it all the time . I have two racecars so there was never a need to take it to the track this was just a car for me to horse around with on the street. There is no way for me to tell you "how well" these heads are going to do on your engine. There are just too many variables everything from the quality of ring seal and machne work to what cam you have and where you degree it in at and a million more that play into how a engine perfroms. Alot of people, especially the young guys think its just a matter of slapping some parts together and there is alot more to it than that. Are they as good as the AFR 227 heads NO are they better than a stock LT1 or a stock LT4 head Yes. I will send a couple of pictures over to the email address you gave me. If you notice they are matched to a 12367777 GM perfromance parts gasket. If you take that same gasket and put it up against a stock head you will see a major difference. In another picture you will notice that the top of the port is matched to the exhaust gasket and the bottom of the port is not all hogged out to the gasket. My understanding from talking to porters familiar with the LT heads is the worst thing you can do for exhaust flow is cut the floor out. In any case take a look and decide for yourself if you want them. If I dont hear anything by morning I am going to let someone else have them. I already told others who inquired that they were sold when you said you wanted them and would not "flake" out and offered to send a deposit.
Take care
Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
What I meant by set up was what can did you run, cubic inches? And how did it perform? I understand these are ltx only, I've been around a while and had like 12 f bodies. I'm just trying to figure out how well these heads are going to do. Email is
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
What email address do you want the pictures to? They have the LT4 valves. These heads only work on a LT based engine they will not work on any other "set up". It ran fine people build these engines all of the time. If you dont have a LT1(93-97) based engine they will not work for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
The on the website is my brother Jake. I work there with my brother and my dad. Pretty sweet getting to hang out with them everyday and make money doing it. I hope it's not too much trouble but could I see a few pics of the intake and exhaust ports to see the work? I just don't want to have to have someone clean them up after I buy them. Also was curious if the valves are the stock LT4 valves or if they were ever swapped out? What kind of set up did you run with these heads and how did it run?
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
I checked on the company that you want it sent to. There is someone there with your last name but its a different first name. Is that you? If you want send it but put a note in the paypal payment about where you want it sent and why you want it sent there. I dont have any paperwork as they were done several years ago. Let me know what you want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Hmmm. That's going to be an obstacle. My house is set up in a way that when packages are left...they are wide open and visible to anyone driving by and there's no way I'd let $1000 worth of parts sit on my porch while I'm at work. It will take some time to get my work address verified. Last time I tried it never went through. I'll give it another go however don't wait up for me if they sell they sell but I can't send any money until I know the address can be verified. I'll be in touch...oh and I meant to ask are the heads fully ported or just port matched? Do you have any paperwork or receipts from the work?
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Tonite is fine. I will only ship to a Paypal Verified address. I am sorry but I have to do it this way to protect myself. You would not believe how many scammers there are on the internet now days who will have you ship it to some other address so they can try and get a refund through Paypal because it was not shipped to their vierifed address. If you want it sent to a business just make that your paypal verifed address before you send the money tonite. I hope you understand.
Take care
Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Cool. I can send you the money tonight if that's ok or if you need some of it now I can send a deposit. Let me know if that's necessary. The ship to address is
It's a business so that should save you a few bucks on shipping. Business name is . Let me know if you need a deposit now or if you're ok with waiting until tonight for the money. I've got plenty of feedback, all positive, and I don't flake when I say I'm going to buy something. Thanks Rob.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Can you do $1k shipped? That's a little farther than I wanted to go but I'd like an LT4 top end for my firehawk. Let me know if you can swing that.
Zach
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy692
Quote:
Originally Posted by za355tx
Take $800???
No but I would go 1000 plus shipping and I will cover the paypal fees out of my end if you are interested.
Let me know
OK. Send me your address. How do you want to pay? If its paypal my email is .com
Take care
Rob
__________________
1994 Firehawk #40
PM's copied exactly except
The only thing that has been deleted from these PM's are names, email address and business names. I see no hissy fit untill I put them back up for sale.
Last edited by Doughboy692; 12-21-2012 at 11:48 PM.
12-22-2012, 12:03 AM
#14
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
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EXACTLY. You know my name search legal records for the state of Nebraska for a court case with my name in it that took place the first week of june of this year. And you will see what a internet scam looks like and know why many people just like me are cautious with buying and selling on the internet. I still dont have my money back from that and it makes this look like peanuts. Then search the scumbags name that took my money and see how many others got taken and how he does it. One thing I can tell you is once you are screwed by someone over the internet it is next to impossible to get your money back or property back.
