Toddoky

The new Hooker 2nd-gen F-body LS swap components have just been released and this thread is being posted as a means to supply end users with any technical information they may need to decide if these products would be appropriate for their project needs.

Included in this comprehensive system of bolt-in components are engine mounts, transmission crossmembers, headers and 2.5" and 3" exhaust systems (exhaust systems are still in the tooling stage and will be released shortly).

Please take note that the configuration of these components is unlike anything currently being offered and was done deliberately to solve some of the long-standing issues being faced by swappers. A case in point here would be the use of captured clamshell mounting brackets and the fully engineered application specific transmission crossmembers, which when used together provide engine inclination and U-joint working angles that you can actually use in a performance application.

Do you want to run mechanical clutch linkage with a Quicktime bellhousing or even retain the stock A/C evaporator case? These Hooker headers and mounting components allow you to do even that if you wish.

I expect there will be lots of detailed questions, so I am posting the following address that will take you to the product flier (it's two pages) for all these parts to break the ice and get you familiar with them:

https://www.holley.com/assets/images.../L30983web.pdf

If you have any questions after reading the flier, just post away and I'll do my best to answer them in a timely manner. I'll also make a second post shortly to put up some install photos for anyone interested in the visual presentation of these parts.

Sincere thanks from the Hooker/Holley family of gearheads

Toddoky

Initial install pics for you guys...

Toddoky

...and a few more product images.

hoboy

Ooooooo, they look pretty nice and appear to tuck up nicely for lowered Camaro's

Toddoky

Yes they do...ground clearance was a priority design feature of all these components and what we acheived would not have been possible if we had not made the decision to break from previous component configurations and develop the captured clamshell engine mounts and transmission crossmembers that acheive it. To show you how in-depth the development process was, we ended up with 1970-74 and 1975-81 specific engine mounts and long-tube headers to account for the subtle differences in the subframe and floor geometries between them and maximize ground clearance in both instances. If you design a header that is tucked up tight to the floor on a 75-81 car and try to install it on a 70-74 car the collectors will bang into the floor...unless you tilt the engine down at a steeper inclination angle, which impacts the U-joint working angles in a negative way. Both configurations provide maximum ground clearance and awesome U-joint working angles without any modifications needed to the floor sheet metal...even on moderately lowered cars.

Toddoky

Here's an actual shot of the ground clearance of the 75-81 long-tubes on a 76 Camaro, which had quite a drop on its front end with lowering springs and low-profile tires. The 75-81 headers are available now and the 70-74 version is making its way through the fixturing process to be ready in about 30-45 days.

Fry_

Anything in the works for g-bodys. No one makes stainless steal headers for them and these look like they would be a close fit.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Those looks great.

I would love to see Holley make mounts for the 64-72 A-bodies using the later style clamshells, or have frame stands that will use the stock 4th gen F-body motor mounts.

Here are picture of a DSE f-body subframe that had custom frame stands made to use the 4th gen f-body engine mounts:







The pictures above are from Mark Steilow's new build. He went to this arrangement to reduce noise and vibration, while still being able to handle 900HP.

I hate my Energy Suspension poly mounts, and would buy this set-up in a heart beat. I will even bring my GTO to Bowling Green for mock-up. Tell Doug F. I said "Hello."

Andrew

Toddoky

We will eventually get to the G-body LS swap as they are too popular to ignore. With all the application specific variables involved, I doubt these headers would fit a G-body and provide the maximized ground clearance that they do on a 2nd-gen. We'll certainly try them on for size when we finally see a G-body here, but I'm expecting a full development scenario to unfold for that platform as well.

We are at the tail-end of 2nd-gen applications and 1st-gen F-bodies are currently in development with the same detailed treatment as used here to solve some long-standing issues that have plagued that swap too

Toddoky

Yeah, we had an A-body in here for inspection and will definately be cooking up something for that swap at a later date once we come up with some work-arounds for the less than stellar U-joint angles that arrise in that swap currently from the interference issues between the steering center link and oil pan and the low height of the trans tunnel. The 5 degrees of engine inclination angle that's being used currently doesn't cut it when building a serious performance car that's been moderately lowered and most guys dont want to cut the tunnel sheet metal. Once we get to that point, I may take you up on your car loan offer...I will tell Doug you said hello.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Driveline angles are a big concern. I solved mine by using a driveshaft with a CV joint in the front, but most people don't want to take that route. I am also using the AutoKraft pan, and as you said, the inner tie rods are a concern. Mine hit, but the car still has great turning radius, so I don't sweat it. You all should change the oil pan casting on your pan and add dimples to clear the tie rod ends on A-bodies. There is really no clean solution as of right now for a-bodies. Most pans present one problem or another and people choose what issue they can live with. Surely this can be fixed.

Andrew

Toddoky

We've already taken preliminary steps to address some of these issues, but it's far too early to tip our hat at what we're planning for that swap. In the meantime, we're excited to get these 2nd-gen parts out and are currently in the midst of developing 1st-gen F-body/3rd-gen Nova swap parts with the same attention to detail. You can't tell from the images I posted, but our long-tube headers are available with standard components in mild steel and with proprietary upscale components in stainless steel (i.e. investment cast flanges and collector spears and one-piece formed merge collectors), so there's something available for swappers of all budget levels. We also have cast iron manifolds and mid-length headers for this swap and our uncoming 2.5" and 3" systems are both bolt-in installable with a Ridetech four-link...that's a new one for you.

Toddoky

I dug up some more photos this morning that may be helpful for someone trying to visualize these products...the installed photos are a set of our
1-7/8" mid-length headers (they are a test set I keep around for fit checking which is why they are bare). The other image depicts an 1-7/8" passenger side long-tube header in the ceramic coated mild steel version that is available in addition to the top-shelf stainless version I posted images of yesterday. The other news I have today is going to be so good for someone that I need to post a new thread to be sure to give as many people a chance to benefit as possible...it's givaway time!

Toddoky

Don't be shy guys, I designed and prototyped all this stuff so your not going to get a better first-hand answer to any of your questions than you will right now through this post. Do you want to know the differences between early and late 2nd-gens that affect the design of these parts? I can tell you as I've had these parts in and out of both versions more times than I care to count.

krwyellowZ28

iTrader: (10)

This is exactly what I'm fighting right now with my 1970 GTO swap. My trans is pointed down 5* giving me a 7* working angle at the front, and the pinion is aimed down as well.

I do not understand the hold up on producing an A-body swap pan that actually works... no one makes one for the normal hot rodder. With the value of 1st gens only going up, I think you're looking at the wrong platform by ignoring the a-body cars that can be bought for under $5000 in decent condition and wrenched on by the average builder.

As for this 2nd gen kit, the headers look great. I do NOT want to fight the poor ground clearance of my Edelbrock swap headers that are on the GTO, when it comes time to swap my '79 Firebird. I probably missed it, but what is the price range of these parts individually or as a kit?

Kyle

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Kyle,

The A-body driveline angle is our dirty little secret. Few people discuss it, but I know that every lowered a-body has this problem. At stock ride height, both the transmission and driveshaft point down to the rear axle. When the cars are lowered, as even mild builds are, the rear axle sits higher up inside the chassis, and the front working angle starts to increase. One solution is to raise the back of the transmission, but there is a limit as to high it will go because of the floor pans and other issue (accessory clearance with the gear box, etc...). My front operating angle is about 7 degrees as well, and the CV takes care of that. In the rear I run a regular u-joint, but I adjust the pinion angle so that the rear operating angle is .5 degrees down, so under power it "straightens out." I have fairly stiff rear bushings, so there isn't much deflection under power.

Holley can help to address this problem by making motor mounts that position the engine as low in the chassis as possible. This would mean making a pan that was as thin and curved as possible at the front cross member, while having a sump that had decent capacity and good oil slosh control.

Make it happen Todd

Andrew

Toddoky

As I mentioned previously, we've had a couple of A-bodies here already for preliminary investigative mock-up work and understand fully what's going on...I can tell you that we've started down the road to addressing the issues with this application but I can't say what it is that we're working on at this time and the final resolution won't be expected to completed before the end of the year. The A-body LS swap will be covered by us, but not until we feel we can put out a kit that improves the current engine positioning/U-joint geometry issue inherent with the swap. A fully-engineered solution will take considerably more effort, time and money than has been put towards solving the issue so far, but what we've done with the 2nd-gen F-body application should give you an indication as to how far we're willing to go to get things right on these swaps.

Toddoky

You can have your engine and trans bolted in with our mounts and crossmember for about 400 bucks purchasing the parts through a source such as Summit or Jegs, which is cheaper than the cost of the BRP swap kit prices and gives you fully-engineered parts that have been CAD modeled and FEA analyzed for optimizing strength and structural stiffness. As far as the headers go, a quick check on Summit's site showed the painted mild steel 1-7/8" long-tubes priced at $579, the ceramic mild steel at $724 and the full-tilt stainless headers in all their proprietary component glory at $1026. All of the headers feature flat flange port sealing regardless of which version you choose (TIG welded ports on the mild steel and ground investment cast flanges on the stainless), so you're getting custom-spec quality no matter which version you choose.

Toddoky

Here's a couple more install shots for you guys...one is a shot of the passenger side mild steel long-tube on a 76' model year Camaro and the second is a top-down image of the clearances of the same header and LS coil packs around the OE A/C evaporator case, which may be important to you if you want to run such a set-up. Spark plug accessability is very good with all of these headers and you can run OE spark plug wires with the large boots and heat shields without any contact with the header tubes.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Are these stainless? 1-7/8"? Are they under $800?