Needing advice on new engine build.
06-01-2013, 09:54 AM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Needing advice on new engine build. Okay, I have been out of the game for quite awhile now. And am just needing some advise from some experienced LT1 folks. I have never put together a custom engine on my own, but have the mechanical abilities. Im looking to get it running again with the already good parts. And about $3-$4k Budget.
Background: I have a 383 Golen Racing Engines 440HP: http://www.golenengineservice.com/en...block-383440hp. You can see all the specs from there.
When I was in college I had blown a head gasket, R&R Gaskets but while i was in there I found #2 cylinder wall scored pretty badly (no broken ring land, etc). I had no money to repair the block, so i continued to drive it as it was my daily driver at the time. Well aside from burning oil, everything was good for awhile until it started knocking 2 years ago and it has been sitting ever since. I inspected it, and found that it had EXCESSIVE crankshaft end play assuming the thrust bearings are wiped (haven't put a dial indicator on it yet). Well, i'm now removing the engine just waiting on a cherry picker and its ready to drop the k member today.
So, I am open to anything on this build and am looking for opinions.
Block:
Since this block has billet 4 bolt mains, id like to reuse it assuming I can get it sleeved, and it all checks out OK. If not I have a Stock 2 bolt block i'll get splayed if all checks out good on it. Im sure one piston is junk, but plan to reuse the rest with new rings of course. Crank may need replaced since it has had so much end play. Ill find out more when its apart hopefully this weekend.
Head:
I have Stock ported heads (175cc Intake runners) Stainless valves, springs, comp cams 1.6 RR. Who does a awesome port job, I know of LE, and AI, Others? I was thinking on possibly running a solid roller setup, just not sure if my budget will allow.
Cam:
Currently its a cc503.
Im wanting this car to be a nasty street car/some strip and spray it with a 150 shot or so, possibly more. Don't have any experience with solid roller stuff, but am considering it. If not, whats a great hyd. roller, have things changed? I know it used to be a 847, or cc306. Or am I just needing to go custom grind?
I live in Northwest Ohio, and want to have someone that know's what they are doing when it comes to machine work, anyone have any recommendations?
Please let me know if I am crazy with this, and just need to go a different route. I just want it going again, its been FAR to long. What would you all do?
Thanks,
Tyler
Background: I have a 383 Golen Racing Engines 440HP: http://www.golenengineservice.com/en...block-383440hp. You can see all the specs from there.
When I was in college I had blown a head gasket, R&R Gaskets but while i was in there I found #2 cylinder wall scored pretty badly (no broken ring land, etc). I had no money to repair the block, so i continued to drive it as it was my daily driver at the time. Well aside from burning oil, everything was good for awhile until it started knocking 2 years ago and it has been sitting ever since. I inspected it, and found that it had EXCESSIVE crankshaft end play assuming the thrust bearings are wiped (haven't put a dial indicator on it yet). Well, i'm now removing the engine just waiting on a cherry picker and its ready to drop the k member today.
So, I am open to anything on this build and am looking for opinions.
Block:
Since this block has billet 4 bolt mains, id like to reuse it assuming I can get it sleeved, and it all checks out OK. If not I have a Stock 2 bolt block i'll get splayed if all checks out good on it. Im sure one piston is junk, but plan to reuse the rest with new rings of course. Crank may need replaced since it has had so much end play. Ill find out more when its apart hopefully this weekend.
Head:
I have Stock ported heads (175cc Intake runners) Stainless valves, springs, comp cams 1.6 RR. Who does a awesome port job, I know of LE, and AI, Others? I was thinking on possibly running a solid roller setup, just not sure if my budget will allow.
Cam:
Currently its a cc503.
Im wanting this car to be a nasty street car/some strip and spray it with a 150 shot or so, possibly more. Don't have any experience with solid roller stuff, but am considering it. If not, whats a great hyd. roller, have things changed? I know it used to be a 847, or cc306. Or am I just needing to go custom grind?
I live in Northwest Ohio, and want to have someone that know's what they are doing when it comes to machine work, anyone have any recommendations?
Please let me know if I am crazy with this, and just need to go a different route. I just want it going again, its been FAR to long. What would you all do?
Thanks,
Tyler
06-01-2013, 10:08 AM
#2
Launching!
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't help much with the block, but you'll have to decide wither its more cost efficient to machine the new block, or repair the old one.
With the heads I would go with AI or LE, or try to find a set of used heads if that's your route, I know there are people on here with plenty or lightly used heads that they would sell a lot cheaper than getting yours done (that's how I did it).
If you do buy porting for your heads just get a cam from the same place, both LE and AI off custom grind cams for only slightly more than an off the self kind. Or find a used one with the specs you like on the classifieds.
Good luck with the build!
With the heads I would go with AI or LE, or try to find a set of used heads if that's your route, I know there are people on here with plenty or lightly used heads that they would sell a lot cheaper than getting yours done (that's how I did it).
If you do buy porting for your heads just get a cam from the same place, both LE and AI off custom grind cams for only slightly more than an off the self kind. Or find a used one with the specs you like on the classifieds.
Good luck with the build!
06-01-2013, 11:34 AM
#4
Your budget wont allow you to do a good repair and heads/valvetrain. Your budget could easily disappear on a solid roller valvetrain with next to no head work or shortblock repair.
You bought cheap junk once already, learn from your mistake.
On the scored cylinder, was it the oil ring that was damaged on install and scored the bore?
With that budget I would probably look at freshening a stock shortblock and doing a few mods to it. IM O trying to salvage much from the junk you have will just be good money after bad. The cam you are eager to replace is about the only part I would keep.
You bought cheap junk once already, learn from your mistake.
On the scored cylinder, was it the oil ring that was damaged on install and scored the bore?
With that budget I would probably look at freshening a stock shortblock and doing a few mods to it. IM O trying to salvage much from the junk you have will just be good money after bad. The cam you are eager to replace is about the only part I would keep.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 06-01-2013 at 04:47 PM.
06-01-2013, 11:50 AM
#5
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your budget wont allow you to do a good repair and heads/valvetrain. Your budget could easily disapear on a solid roller valvetrain with next to not head work or shortblock repair.
You bought cheap junk once already, learn from your mistake.
On the scored cylinder, was it the oil ring that was damaged on install and scored the bore?
With that budget I would probably look at freshening a stock shortblock and doing a few mods to it. IM O trying to salvage much from the junk you have will just be good money after bad. The cam you are eager to replace is about the only part I would keep.
You bought cheap junk once already, learn from your mistake.
On the scored cylinder, was it the oil ring that was damaged on install and scored the bore?
With that budget I would probably look at freshening a stock shortblock and doing a few mods to it. IM O trying to salvage much from the junk you have will just be good money after bad. The cam you are eager to replace is about the only part I would keep.
Thanks,
Tyler
06-01-2013, 05:07 PM
#6
The cast crank was a very bad choice but at least it was better than Eagle cast. Realistically the Scat cast is still weaker than STOCK. The rest is junk because you let Golen handle it. Crank thrust issues are commonplace with their builds. 440fwhp is really low too, if you had spent LESS money on refreshing the stock shortblock and putting good heads on it it would have made more power and still be going strong rather than the screwed up pile of junk you have.
The scored bore without evidence of what caused it was likely sloppy ring install, be it an oil ring pinched or a burr left on a compression ring. The knocking might well be from improper rod torque, someone else who bought the same engine found a rodbolt crossthreaded, the easiest conclusion that can be drawn from that is they are using air tools to assemble the engines.
You have all the evidence you need to see you bought a junk engine, the question becomes can you admit it and learn from it?
IMO and experience a stock shortblock is better than a cheap stroker. You take a bolton car that is 300rwhp add a good heads cam setup and 400rwhp is pretty easily doable with some folks hitting 420+. You put a $2000 stroker rotating assembly in, plus another $1000-1500 in machining and assembly and 420 is common with some of the best examples managing 450rwhp. What I am saying is $3000 spent on a good topend can gain you 100+rwhp and another $3000 spent on displacement might only gain you 20-30 more. Forget the fixation on displacement it cost too much and gains too little for the budget challenged gearhead.
The chinese rods and FORGED crank are OK if assembled and inspected well but that is not the case with that vendor.
The scored bore without evidence of what caused it was likely sloppy ring install, be it an oil ring pinched or a burr left on a compression ring. The knocking might well be from improper rod torque, someone else who bought the same engine found a rodbolt crossthreaded, the easiest conclusion that can be drawn from that is they are using air tools to assemble the engines.
You have all the evidence you need to see you bought a junk engine, the question becomes can you admit it and learn from it?
IMO and experience a stock shortblock is better than a cheap stroker. You take a bolton car that is 300rwhp add a good heads cam setup and 400rwhp is pretty easily doable with some folks hitting 420+. You put a $2000 stroker rotating assembly in, plus another $1000-1500 in machining and assembly and 420 is common with some of the best examples managing 450rwhp. What I am saying is $3000 spent on a good topend can gain you 100+rwhp and another $3000 spent on displacement might only gain you 20-30 more. Forget the fixation on displacement it cost too much and gains too little for the budget challenged gearhead.
The chinese rods and FORGED crank are OK if assembled and inspected well but that is not the case with that vendor.
06-01-2013, 11:10 PM
#7
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The cast crank was a very bad choice but at least it was better than Eagle cast. Realistically the Scat cast is still weaker than STOCK. The rest is junk because you let Golen handle it. Crank thrust issues are commonplace with their builds. 440fwhp is really low too, if you had spent LESS money on refreshing the stock shortblock and putting good heads on it it would have made more power and still be going strong rather than the screwed up pile of junk you have.
The scored bore without evidence of what caused it was likely sloppy ring install, be it an oil ring pinched or a burr left on a compression ring. The knocking might well be from improper rod torque, someone else who bought the same engine found a rodbolt crossthreaded, the easiest conclusion that can be drawn from that is they are using air tools to assemble the engines.
You have all the evidence you need to see you bought a junk engine, the question becomes can you admit it and learn from it?
IMO and experience a stock shortblock is better than a cheap stroker. You take a bolton car that is 300rwhp add a good heads cam setup and 400rwhp is pretty easily doable with some folks hitting 420+. You put a $2000 stroker rotating assembly in, plus another $1000-1500 in machining and assembly and 420 is common with some of the best examples managing 450rwhp. What I am saying is $3000 spent on a good topend can gain you 100+rwhp and another $3000 spent on displacement might only gain you 20-30 more. Forget the fixation on displacement it cost too much and gains too little for the budget challenged gearhead.
The chinese rods and FORGED crank are OK if assembled and inspected well but that is not the case with that vendor.
The scored bore without evidence of what caused it was likely sloppy ring install, be it an oil ring pinched or a burr left on a compression ring. The knocking might well be from improper rod torque, someone else who bought the same engine found a rodbolt crossthreaded, the easiest conclusion that can be drawn from that is they are using air tools to assemble the engines.
You have all the evidence you need to see you bought a junk engine, the question becomes can you admit it and learn from it?
IMO and experience a stock shortblock is better than a cheap stroker. You take a bolton car that is 300rwhp add a good heads cam setup and 400rwhp is pretty easily doable with some folks hitting 420+. You put a $2000 stroker rotating assembly in, plus another $1000-1500 in machining and assembly and 420 is common with some of the best examples managing 450rwhp. What I am saying is $3000 spent on a good topend can gain you 100+rwhp and another $3000 spent on displacement might only gain you 20-30 more. Forget the fixation on displacement it cost too much and gains too little for the budget challenged gearhead.
The chinese rods and FORGED crank are OK if assembled and inspected well but that is not the case with that vendor.
Trending Topics
06-02-2013, 07:51 AM
#11
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I did. I contacted him about both issues. Basically was asking me why I tore it apart to do the head gaskets, to find the cylinder wall scored all to hell. And I informed him that the engine had milky oil, and i had done a compression test and found the head gasket was leaking between 2 and 4. And he informed me that there was nothing he could do about the cylinder wall, because I wasn't the original purchaser of the engine. I bought it brand new tapped up from a guy in Pennsylvania. I sent Chad Golen pictures of everything; paperwork of the engine, cylinder, plugs, Throttle body blade screws, maf with screen, ect., to prove nothing had come apart in that cylinder.. He seems like an extremely nice guy, but doesn't stand behind his builds..It has to be a ring, or a lack of oil problem if both of these things have happened in my opinion. So I called him again when I heard it knocking and found excessive play in the crank. I explained the poor experience I have had with him and that although I wasn't the original purchaser, I would like him to do something about it. All he said was "You can send me the engine and I will inspect and repair it at your cost"... Thanks. So, it has sat for years until now.
06-02-2013, 09:06 AM
#12
The biggest problem is too few people tell these stories publicly and combined with him advertizing in magazines the myth of this competence or even being good goes on. A LOT of guys fail to even get 10k. Someone already linked this thread to to another recent one where someone wants to boost a Golen engine and wouldn't believe us when we told him Golen is no good.
Everyone is human and can make a mistake vendors included, but when the same mistakes and failures happen over and over and are the result of sloppiness and cheapness a spade needs to be called a spade.
Everyone is human and can make a mistake vendors included, but when the same mistakes and failures happen over and over and are the result of sloppiness and cheapness a spade needs to be called a spade.
06-02-2013, 09:35 AM
#13
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The biggest problem is too few people tell these stories publicly and combined with him advertizing in magazines the myth of this competence or even being good goes on. A LOT of guys fail to even get 10k. Someone already linked this thread to to another recent one where someone wants to boost a Golen engine and wouldn't believe us when we told him Golen is no good.
Everyone is human and can make a mistake vendors included, but when the same mistakes and failures happen over and over and are the result of sloppiness and cheapness a spade needs to be called a spade.
Everyone is human and can make a mistake vendors included, but when the same mistakes and failures happen over and over and are the result of sloppiness and cheapness a spade needs to be called a spade.
06-03-2013, 05:31 AM
#15
WHAT THE FUUUUCCCCKKKKK!!!!! I would be losing my **** right now!!!! This thread needs to be a sticky! Your 440 crank 370rwhp $6500 10k mile engine had scratched walls and a broken crank, that is so unacceptable my blood would boil and I would scream, plus Golen basically told you to **** yourself?
06-03-2013, 07:37 AM
#16
Launching!
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't let Golen get away with this. I would have to bring this up to him again now that you know about the crank. Idc what he says, he owes you some money, time, or labor. At the minimum he needs to replace the parts for you if not give you a whole new ******* engine.
06-03-2013, 09:05 AM
#18
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my previous conversations and emails it doesn't look good. I mean, he has it in his paperwork that there is no transferable warranty on the engine. I would still think to continue to do good business, and have repeat customers he would help out somewhat on the problem. I'll contact him after work, pretty sure ill get the same response.
06-03-2013, 09:51 AM
#20
i have the same motor from golen that i am putting in my 94z. i hadent heard any bad reviews of golen until after i had received the motor and started a build thread here.
i am trying to figure out what i want to do, the motor is still on the engine stand in my barn as i am waiting on parts to finish it up, i was thinking i could swap out to a forged crank now or see what happens with the scat that is in there.
he does have the 3 year warrenty that i would hope he honors (engine is 2 months old at most) if the crank were to break, since that wouldnt be my fault, just shitty build quality on his part but i am not sure i want to risk it at this point.
i am trying to figure out what i want to do, the motor is still on the engine stand in my barn as i am waiting on parts to finish it up, i was thinking i could swap out to a forged crank now or see what happens with the scat that is in there.
he does have the 3 year warrenty that i would hope he honors (engine is 2 months old at most) if the crank were to break, since that wouldnt be my fault, just shitty build quality on his part but i am not sure i want to risk it at this point.
