denmah's lunch and learn, the difference with megasquirt systems
06-06-2013, 10:35 AM
#2
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Awesome explanation of the three different systems. One question and you might have already mentioned this but I didn't notice a com port on the micro squirt. Do you still use tuner studios to up load and mess with tunes?
thats awsome and thanks for taking the time, 
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06-06-2013, 08:31 PM
#8
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Good overview.
Having built about 30 - 40 units for BMWs, I have a few suggestions. Don't bother with an MSD box. You can run 4 spark outputs (wasted spark) and trigger LS1 coils directly from the LED outputs of MS 3.0/3.57 boards and then you've got full, direct control over ignition (launch control, anti lag, basic traction control, etc.). The convenient thing is LS coils are smart so you only need a logic level signal to run them so the electrical noise is outside of the MS housing and you don't need the VB921 drivers (BIP373s these days?) to run dumb coils.
The new MS 3 Pro is pretty hot though. Matt Cramer and Jerry over at DIY Autotune are great to deal with and the MS3 Pro is pretty capable in the world of ECUs. You guys should all look into VEMS as well.
The biggest issue I've had with MS1/MS2 boxes (I ran an MS1 MSnS-E and then MS2 MSnS-E setup for about 30k miles) is that stupid DB37 connector. The computer connectors in an automotive environment is lame. Further, the MS 3.0/3.57 (forget MS 2.2 at this point) are suuuuuper suseptible to electronic noise. You REALLY need to wire things properly and even then the ground planes and general noise tolerance in the MS 3.0/3.57 boards is lacking.
Btw Grippo's first name is Al.
Having built about 30 - 40 units for BMWs, I have a few suggestions. Don't bother with an MSD box. You can run 4 spark outputs (wasted spark) and trigger LS1 coils directly from the LED outputs of MS 3.0/3.57 boards and then you've got full, direct control over ignition (launch control, anti lag, basic traction control, etc.). The convenient thing is LS coils are smart so you only need a logic level signal to run them so the electrical noise is outside of the MS housing and you don't need the VB921 drivers (BIP373s these days?) to run dumb coils.
The new MS 3 Pro is pretty hot though. Matt Cramer and Jerry over at DIY Autotune are great to deal with and the MS3 Pro is pretty capable in the world of ECUs. You guys should all look into VEMS as well.
The biggest issue I've had with MS1/MS2 boxes (I ran an MS1 MSnS-E and then MS2 MSnS-E setup for about 30k miles) is that stupid DB37 connector. The computer connectors in an automotive environment is lame. Further, the MS 3.0/3.57 (forget MS 2.2 at this point) are suuuuuper suseptible to electronic noise. You REALLY need to wire things properly and even then the ground planes and general noise tolerance in the MS 3.0/3.57 boards is lacking.
Btw Grippo's first name is Al.
06-07-2013, 02:13 AM
#9
Good overview.
Having built about 30 - 40 units for BMWs, I have a few suggestions. Don't bother with an MSD box. You can run 4 spark outputs (wasted spark) and trigger LS1 coils directly from the LED outputs of MS 3.0/3.57 boards and then you've got full, direct control over ignition (launch control, anti lag, basic traction control, etc.). The convenient thing is LS coils are smart so you only need a logic level signal to run them so the electrical noise is outside of the MS housing and you don't need the VB921 drivers (BIP373s these days?) to run dumb coils.
The new MS 3 Pro is pretty hot though. Matt Cramer and Jerry over at DIY Autotune are great to deal with and the MS3 Pro is pretty capable in the world of ECUs. You guys should all look into VEMS as well.
The biggest issue I've had with MS1/MS2 boxes (I ran an MS1 MSnS-E and then MS2 MSnS-E setup for about 30k miles) is that stupid DB37 connector. The computer connectors in an automotive environment is lame. Further, the MS 3.0/3.57 (forget MS 2.2 at this point) are suuuuuper suseptible to electronic noise. You REALLY need to wire things properly and even then the ground planes and general noise tolerance in the MS 3.0/3.57 boards is lacking.
Btw Grippo's first name is Al.
Having built about 30 - 40 units for BMWs, I have a few suggestions. Don't bother with an MSD box. You can run 4 spark outputs (wasted spark) and trigger LS1 coils directly from the LED outputs of MS 3.0/3.57 boards and then you've got full, direct control over ignition (launch control, anti lag, basic traction control, etc.). The convenient thing is LS coils are smart so you only need a logic level signal to run them so the electrical noise is outside of the MS housing and you don't need the VB921 drivers (BIP373s these days?) to run dumb coils.
The new MS 3 Pro is pretty hot though. Matt Cramer and Jerry over at DIY Autotune are great to deal with and the MS3 Pro is pretty capable in the world of ECUs. You guys should all look into VEMS as well.
The biggest issue I've had with MS1/MS2 boxes (I ran an MS1 MSnS-E and then MS2 MSnS-E setup for about 30k miles) is that stupid DB37 connector. The computer connectors in an automotive environment is lame. Further, the MS 3.0/3.57 (forget MS 2.2 at this point) are suuuuuper suseptible to electronic noise. You REALLY need to wire things properly and even then the ground planes and general noise tolerance in the MS 3.0/3.57 boards is lacking.
Btw Grippo's first name is Al.
i know this is why they concentrated on splitting the inputs and outputs to nearly two separate boards on the ms3 pro versions
06-07-2013, 05:42 AM
#10
Thanks for taking the time to put this together! Any idea how the auto learn on the ms3 (pro??) compares to the holley dominator? Seems like the holley is damn near a no-brainer with the auto tune feature, is this comparable? Is a guy with little or no tuning knowledge just better off with the holley?
Oh, and whats this new project car you speak of?
Oh, and whats this new project car you speak of?
06-07-2013, 09:59 AM
#11
ms3 can do auto tune, you connect the laptop and enable the settings and it will adjust the fuel map, but the laptop has to be connected to it.
once your fuel map is good, you can enable closed loop O2 feedback or EGO as they call it.
it will look off an AFR table and shoot for that commanded AFR pulling a set amount o fuel % you specify.
once your fuel map is good, you can enable closed loop O2 feedback or EGO as they call it.
it will look off an AFR table and shoot for that commanded AFR pulling a set amount o fuel % you specify.
06-07-2013, 11:30 AM
#14
ms3 can do auto tune, you connect the laptop and enable the settings and it will adjust the fuel map, but the laptop has to be connected to it.
once your fuel map is good, you can enable closed loop O2 feedback or EGO as they call it.
it will look off an AFR table and shoot for that commanded AFR pulling a set amount o fuel % you specify.
once your fuel map is good, you can enable closed loop O2 feedback or EGO as they call it.
it will look off an AFR table and shoot for that commanded AFR pulling a set amount o fuel % you specify.
Have you used this feature and if so, what are your thoughts? Holley guys rave about how well their product self tunes, you think this is in the same league?
06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
#15
i have not used the holley but i use autotune (insert tpain jokes) on all the cars i have built and tuned, i find its easiest to get it into the 11.0 range manually in boost and then let autotune clean up the driving and other things
it works great.
it works great.
06-07-2013, 04:40 PM
#16
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If your lacking in knowledge on tuning EFI systems (like I was) I highly recommend "Performance Fuel Injection Systems" book by Matt Cramer & Jerry Hoffman. Between that book, this forum and it great members, and the LS start up tunes that are available almost anyone can build a Micro/Megasuirt system and tune a EFI LS engine.
Although Im getting decent at tuning my engine I would really like to see a video on how someone else (like matt-hint~hint) does there tuning.
06-18-2013, 09:38 PM
#18
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I have a question for you as far as using megasquirt vs hp tuners which would u prefer to use for tuning..im sure each has its likes and dislikes but when it comes down to it which would you pick
06-18-2013, 11:45 PM
#19
i like tuning with megasquirt better, just because its a minimalist interface and less features.
stock computer cars literally have thousands of tables inside that you have to **** with at times to get what you want out of a vehicle.
that said i like them both alot, we will see how much i like the MS3 gold and trans controller combo together when its all said and done. that will really be neat.
stock computer cars literally have thousands of tables inside that you have to **** with at times to get what you want out of a vehicle.
that said i like them both alot, we will see how much i like the MS3 gold and trans controller combo together when its all said and done. that will really be neat.
Last edited by denmah; 06-19-2013 at 01:19 AM.
06-19-2013, 12:30 AM
#20
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i like tuning with hptuners better, just because its a minimalist interface and less features.
stock computer cars literally have thousands of tables inside that you have to **** with at times to get what you want out of a vehicle.
that said i like them both alot, we will see how much i like the MS3 gold and trans controller combo together when its all said and done. that will really be neat.
stock computer cars literally have thousands of tables inside that you have to **** with at times to get what you want out of a vehicle.
that said i like them both alot, we will see how much i like the MS3 gold and trans controller combo together when its all said and done. that will really be neat.