18wheelsofsteel

This is certainly going to be an interesting discussion but I would like to hear all of your opinions on it. What would you all consider to be the most mileage a car can have to be in the "collector car" category? My 02 WS6 has just over 20k miles and I think it qualifies in the "collector" category. I think any car that has less then around 30k miles could fall into this low mileage gem status. Of course it all depends on the condition too as well. I've come to think of F-body's as being either ultra low mileage, super low mileage (my car IMHO is in this spot), low mileage, average mileage and the list goes on. I know there's always been a low mileage premium with any car especially with F-bodies but where does it end?

2GOOD4U

iTrader: (1)

"collector car" and "low miles" are two entirely different things.

With such a mass produced car such as an f-body, I'd consider low miles to be under 10k.

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

I mostly agree with the above post. Recently I had the pleasure of seeing an authentic 427 Shelby Cobra up close and personal. The current owner races it and it has around 100k miles on it. It is not perfect and has some track rub on it. Even so, I would still consider it a collector car. On the other hand, I would not consider your car a "collector" even with that low ~20k miles. It is part of a mass produced line of automobiles and really is not rare or special, relatively speaking. As such, for me, your car would have to have been stored in a bubble since the day you brought it home for it to be truly collectible. No doubt your car is desirable and should net you a low-mileage premium, especially if it is one/two owner, clean title, no issue car, but "collectible," no.

NC01TA

To bring collector status to any car there has to be the demand for it. Unfortunately our F-bodies aren't really thought of in that regard yet. Seeing sub 10,000 miles mint condition 2002 CETA cars going through Barrett-Jackson (which always brings crazy high $$) for prices under $30,000 shows how few people actually think of them that way yet. They sold for well over $30,000 when new just 11 years ago. For the generic F-body they are just thought of as ultra low mileage cars with very few thinking the word 'collector' yet. Anniversary editions, special editions, unusual colors, etc.. will be the first to bring the attention, then everything else will fall in line. Mileage will definitely be a HUGE factor 'in time' as collectors desire that immensely along with it being stock. You can see that being played out monthly at a major auction house every single month or two. An original '69 Camaro with 20,000 documented miles on it is going to bring BIG $$$ vs one that has been restored with no paperwork trail. I feel the same will hold true for our F-bodies one day, but you have to hit that 25 year mark first. Why? It's just the way it is with cars. I noticed it with my low production Aerocoupe too. It is finally selling for around the original window sticker price, but it took 25 years, and the car has to be absolute near mint with crazy low miles. Anything else is selling for garbage money. I'm finding that mileage in the teens or less is bringing the best money, with 20,000 miles and up bringing a bit less. Of course the older the car the more miles are acceptable. 25,000 documented miles on a '70 Corvette would certainly be seen as a prize vs a 25,000 miles '90 Corvette. The higher the mileage, the less the value naturally. Salesmen will pitch every angle to downplay it to prospective buyers on more modern cars, like our F-bodies, but this mileage issue is always very important. I'm sure you have read all the BS in ads like, "Car has only 70,000 miles on it but looks like 10,000." Trust me, true car people or potential 'collectors' are not interested 99 times out of 100.
As we have talked about here many times, premiums are associated with ultra low mileage cars when it comes to pricing. On a sub 10,000 miles stock F-body the premiums can range from $3,000 - $5,000 and sometimes even more. It isn't an easy sale even then as the demand isn't there yet. Again those words, demand and yet. Mileage in the teens will bring premiums as well but to a lesser degree. The price guides, like KBB, are getting a bit better I've noticed, but still a tad low. A seller does have to combat that aspect as buyers see those prices and ask themselves why they should pay more. It's tough.
As far as your car 18wheelsofsteel it is a sweet very low mileage car that is very desirable to many buyers, but it is not a 'collector' car yet. Collectors are not interested, sadly to say, just F-body fans and people looking for a fine used modern muscle car. To make matters worse, the cash crowd is thin in these times and the loans are very difficult to get. As we both know, patience is key, otherwise you have to sell the car for much less than 'what it's worth'. Unfortunate, but true.

18wheelsofsteel

I guess I should have implied that WHEN our F-bodies become "collector cars" what mileage would be considered "collector worthy". I realize that our F-bodies aren't considered classics yet by any means but I think many modern cars will be collectible in the future. I love classic cars from the 50s 60s and 70s. Im 28 when I was in high school 4th generation f-bodies where the Chevelle SS's and Hemi Challengers of my generation. I suspect in 20 year's they will be sought after the same way baby boomers seek the muscle cars of their youths.

"MAC"

iTrader: (1)

i believe one day our cars will be collectors. Just gotta wait till theres more in the scrap yard and you only see them once in a blue moon kinda like with the Vipers (I rarely see one)

NC01TA

Still a tough call my friend. Anything under 30,000 miles will be excellent IMO, maybe even 40,000 miles as the cars get even older and older. It depends at what point in time and if the car was kept stock. Of course the lower miles, the better, and naturally how well the car was maintained. There are some lousy cars out there with very low mileage, especially when stored improperly, like in a cold barn winter after winter. So many factors come into play.

18wheelsofsteel

Funny that you mention that topic. Reminds me of the Lambrecht Chevrolet auction happening in a few month's. Over 500 either new or low mileage classics. Unfortunately over 475 of them were stored in an open Nebraska field!

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

That is a nice thought but in 20 years the market will be completely different than it is today. As battery and other alternative energy technologies continue to develop and become more affordable, viable, and efficient, gasoline powered vehicles will be displaced. We have been lucky here in that gas prices have been artificially low compared to the rest of the world. It is only a matter of time before the cost per gallon goes up to the point that it becomes cost prohibitive for the majority of people to collect these kinds of cars.

18wheelsofsteel

I hate to tell you this my friend but for the most most part our future economy is going to continue to rely on fossil fuels or it will implode. The fact is that for the last 150 years its what our infrastructure has been built upon and even as traditional oil resources are depleted we will continue to increase supplies with unconventional ones. Almost every car on the road now and almost every car coming in the pipeline from automakers for the next decade is gas powered just more efficient. Of course electrics and hybrids will increase in sales but probably never be in the majority until well after our lifetime.

NC01TA

I saw that. Just mind-boggling.

NC01TA

No one knows. I lived through the gas crisis in the 70's, waiting in long lines for gas on odd-even days. We never thought we would see muscle cars from the 60's being collectible and certainly didn't think we would ever see a 300 HP car produced again. Ever!! Wrong on all counts. Everything is opinion when it comes to '20 years down the road'. So much can happen, from natural disasters to man-made. However, there is no denying that the younger folks that love F-bodies today will definitely desire sweet examples at some point down the road, if everything continues on with no major changes, even at $8 per gallon gas prices. Why not, I used to buy gas for under 30c a gallon and now pay $4.00 sometimes for premium. You never could have imagined it. We've seen this situation with every generation. If the low HP 80's cars can bring big $$, and they do for the sweet rides, then our F-bodies certainly will too.

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

There is a reason why auto manufacturers are investing hundreds of billions of dollars in R&D for alternative fuel vehicles (major oil companies are investing in alternative energies and governments are pushing for it as well). Look at what Tesla Motors is doing: they unanimously won Motor Trend's 2013 Car of the Year Award (the first time ever a non-gasoline powered vehicle won the award AND the first time ever the judges were unanimous in their decision) and their Model S (granted, their only model) is currently outselling BMW, Audi, and Mercedes in the large luxury sedan market. It is only a matter of time before widely affordable electric vehicles hit the road.

No, we don't "know" what the future will bring, but we have seen the trajectory of how things are going to change. There is a whole lot of factual evidence from which we can predict with a high probability what is going to happen in the next 5 to 10 to 20 years and beyond. It is not as if we are stumbling blindly into the future. And you can bet that when gas prices hit $8/gallon, our wallets are going to feel it across the board, not just at the gas pump.

NC01TA

I appreciate your opinion on the matter but Motor Trend is definitely a left leaning magazine. I subscribe to them along with many others. It hit the fan from a large number of readers (and I know you saw it) when the Tesla won COTY award. Most 'car people' are not electric converts, not by a long shot. Tesla is the fad company right now among the elite as reflected in their ridiculous stock price. I sure wouldn't buy any for my portfolio. To me Tesla is a so-so example for the trends of tomorrow. Again, time will tell. I still lean towards what history has shown us for the past 50+ years. Vintage sweet, low mileage, or restored gas powered cars will sell for the big $$ 'down the road'. It's all just opinion. As I said, no one knows.

GimmeLSx

iTrader: (4)

I do enjoy a good spirited debate but I do not think this is the place for it. The last thing I am going to say is that today is much different than the world you grew up in. Good paying jobs are no longer available straight out of high school and getting a degree no longer costs a few thousand dollars. More people are making less while taking on more debt. Outstanding student loans are over $1 trillion and climbing. The history that you know and lived is not going to be a good indicator of the future simply because the game and rules have changed. Those are not opinions, those are facts. By the way, asserting as fact that Motor Trend is "left leaning" is in fact an opinion. The fact that Tesla won Car of the Year is based on opinions, of which you have an opinion that appears to be biased because as you said, you are not an electric convert. Oh well, opinions abound. Cheers!

Zlow28

iTrader: (11)

I think there are ways to run cars without gas efficiently now(better than hybrids), but theyre just going to wait to drain every last drop of oil until they switch over. Cars may even get more power and make the current shelby and zr1 look like highschool toys. Who knows... Or we can go slow as hell.