Please critique this 2bar speed density turbo tune...
09-01-2013, 02:25 PM
#1
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Please critique this 2bar speed density turbo tune... Car is 98 trans am 6 speed. Factory long block. Mods are....STS rear mount intercooled using 60mm garrett. Running a 4lb spring with no controller. Factory fuel system with the exception of 60lb dekas. wideband is lc1
I plan on doing one more (X by % 1/2) on all the values on the first log in all the cells below 100 kpa. I am convinced the slight knock on the 2nd log (which has a few wot pulls) is do to exhaust or turbo piping. I didnt change any gain setting for knock....but did quicken the decay rate and it has helped.
Im about to finalize the tune (for this boost setting) and let her go open loop and see how it acts. Just want a few eyeballs on the tune/log to see if there is any thing I missed....or could improve on. Thanks!
Brandon
Ive posted on hptuners as well to get as many views as possible.
I plan on doing one more (X by % 1/2) on all the values on the first log in all the cells below 100 kpa. I am convinced the slight knock on the 2nd log (which has a few wot pulls) is do to exhaust or turbo piping. I didnt change any gain setting for knock....but did quicken the decay rate and it has helped.
Im about to finalize the tune (for this boost setting) and let her go open loop and see how it acts. Just want a few eyeballs on the tune/log to see if there is any thing I missed....or could improve on. Thanks!
Brandon
Ive posted on hptuners as well to get as many views as possible.
09-30-2013, 11:38 PM
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lol love your signature, if that isn't the truth lol
curious on the inputs you get since im somewhat have the same setup, slightly larger turbo but near same setup. im assuming the 4lbs spring isn't doing you any justice.
Although you have a smaller 60mm turbo, im gonna say you will be close to over powering that spring with just your idle soon lol
I started with a 4lbs spring with my T76 and it wouldn't stay shut to save the life of me. wound up with a 10+8lbs spring combo in my 44mm wastegate to finaly shut the damn thing and then a MBC on top of that.
hows the tuning going since your last post?
curious on the inputs you get since im somewhat have the same setup, slightly larger turbo but near same setup. im assuming the 4lbs spring isn't doing you any justice.
Although you have a smaller 60mm turbo, im gonna say you will be close to over powering that spring with just your idle soon lol
I started with a 4lbs spring with my T76 and it wouldn't stay shut to save the life of me. wound up with a 10+8lbs spring combo in my 44mm wastegate to finaly shut the damn thing and then a MBC on top of that.
hows the tuning going since your last post?
09-30-2013, 11:53 PM
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You are the first to post anything. I was hoping for some advice from the boards but no luck. Someone local has helped me with the tune and said everthing looked pretty good. He set my timing at a straight 17 degrees (conservative) in boost above 3K rpm and populated that in a lot more cells that just the last row like I had it. The car makes peak boost at about 3200 3400 but dosent hold it well. I was actually thinking a boost leak somewhere and wasnt event thinking about the spring not holding the boost. The car pulls good for what it is. I have yet to see full boost all the way to redline so its hard to get the ve and afr tight in those areas.....but im running pig rich so its better than leaning out i guess. Maybe I should try a bigger spring. If im shooting for 10lbs max....what would you run? I thought the 4lb spring would hold a consistant 4lbs but maybe im wrong. Im gonna get a boost leak tester just to make sure everthing is holding air and go from there. Everyone loves the sound though. compliments all the time.
10-01-2013, 12:13 AM
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nice,
at least your building boost.
Yeah, id try a 10lbs spring and see what it will hold. Since you have a smaller turbo, I wouldn't get to crazy with the spring sizes just yet since you can get to your target boost faster lol
but yeah, im not sure hwat it is exactly, but with rear mounts it seems that we need a larger spring to compensate for the initial idle/low rpm exhaust pressure. My theory is that since we have V8s and not some IL4, we are creating a lot of exhaust gas at idle which translates into exhaust pressure. good for boost, but that initial pressure is sitting on top of a weak spring that is ready to crap open and loose boot at any moment once you put the pedal down. In doing this, you are just forcing more exhaust out of the wastegate that never had a chance in the first place to close and create actual boost pressure resulting in lose of boost and unhappy results lol
All the boost you are seeing is most likey the turbo trying to catchup to your target boost with a giant hole opening ever more as your engine gives it even more exhaust to try to fill the void that it can never reach....
id try a 10lbs spring and maybe a cheap little MBC to dial in your desired setting. that should help out tremendously with your boosting issues. The second part is that you are running rich which is safe for your engine but is killing your boost in the process, although I commend you and your tuner for keeping your fuel in check, leaning out certain parts of the tune will help spool up the turbo (think more heat) but this is a delicate balance that you have to figure out.
at least your building boost.
Yeah, id try a 10lbs spring and see what it will hold. Since you have a smaller turbo, I wouldn't get to crazy with the spring sizes just yet since you can get to your target boost faster lol
but yeah, im not sure hwat it is exactly, but with rear mounts it seems that we need a larger spring to compensate for the initial idle/low rpm exhaust pressure. My theory is that since we have V8s and not some IL4, we are creating a lot of exhaust gas at idle which translates into exhaust pressure. good for boost, but that initial pressure is sitting on top of a weak spring that is ready to crap open and loose boot at any moment once you put the pedal down. In doing this, you are just forcing more exhaust out of the wastegate that never had a chance in the first place to close and create actual boost pressure resulting in lose of boost and unhappy results lol
All the boost you are seeing is most likey the turbo trying to catchup to your target boost with a giant hole opening ever more as your engine gives it even more exhaust to try to fill the void that it can never reach....
id try a 10lbs spring and maybe a cheap little MBC to dial in your desired setting. that should help out tremendously with your boosting issues. The second part is that you are running rich which is safe for your engine but is killing your boost in the process, although I commend you and your tuner for keeping your fuel in check, leaning out certain parts of the tune will help spool up the turbo (think more heat) but this is a delicate balance that you have to figure out.
10-01-2013, 10:28 PM
#6
You want critics, there you go LOL
1- The MAF isn't properly failed. Go to Engine Diagnostics > Airflow > MAF Fail High. Set to 0
2- Too much timing in some areas of the table, you changed only the cells you hit under boost, you need to have a safety margin. There are cells with 28° next to cells with 15. Avoid big differences in contiguous cells
3- You have knock. It's not severe but you need to fix it, instead you doubled the knock decay rate and reduced the base knock table. Knock retard settings must be kept stock unless you get false knock.
4- You seem to have 60 lbs injectors, you only changed the flow rate and left all the other data stock. You need proper injector settings.
5- If your MAP readings are accurate, you have very little boost, you may have leaks or the MAP is not working properly. Do you have a boost gauge?
1- The MAF isn't properly failed. Go to Engine Diagnostics > Airflow > MAF Fail High. Set to 0
2- Too much timing in some areas of the table, you changed only the cells you hit under boost, you need to have a safety margin. There are cells with 28° next to cells with 15. Avoid big differences in contiguous cells
3- You have knock. It's not severe but you need to fix it, instead you doubled the knock decay rate and reduced the base knock table. Knock retard settings must be kept stock unless you get false knock.
4- You seem to have 60 lbs injectors, you only changed the flow rate and left all the other data stock. You need proper injector settings.
5- If your MAP readings are accurate, you have very little boost, you may have leaks or the MAP is not working properly. Do you have a boost gauge?
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10-02-2013, 12:20 AM
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Thank you! This is good. Im on hptuners looking at different tunes with 60lbers to see what info i need to change. I understand the tuning process...its just so critical to have the right data. Im gonna compare different 60lb tunes and look for the same things and if its a match...then i guess i can believe its correct.
Monte....to answer your questions...
1. Ill correct that.
2. this has been adjusted as well to populate more cells and also one flat target #
3. The knock comes in at the shifts...m/t i dont see any knock as rpm increases. actually tapers off. i was thinking false knock...but do not feel confindent enough to adjust the gain. i figured the decay rate would help at least get rid of it faster.
4. working on that but I have no Banish data so the hptuners repository is my only option right now.
5. Ordering a boost leak tester within the next few days as well as a stiffer wastegate spring...at least 8lbs.
Monte....to answer your questions...
1. Ill correct that.
2. this has been adjusted as well to populate more cells and also one flat target #
3. The knock comes in at the shifts...m/t i dont see any knock as rpm increases. actually tapers off. i was thinking false knock...but do not feel confindent enough to adjust the gain. i figured the decay rate would help at least get rid of it faster.
4. working on that but I have no Banish data so the hptuners repository is my only option right now.
5. Ordering a boost leak tester within the next few days as well as a stiffer wastegate spring...at least 8lbs.
10-02-2013, 01:40 AM
#10
Good to hear you adjusted timing. Arguably, spark advance is the most critical thing in a boosted engine. A few degrees too much will kill your engine.
If you need the injector data for the Deka 60# I can send the data to you by PM. Not the spreadsheet only the data for the 60# deka.
I strongly suggest you buy the Banish DVD, it is a good investment.
Get a few gallons of race gas and mix with pump gas, do a few runs and datalog to see if the knock goes away. What spark plugs are you using?
If you need the injector data for the Deka 60# I can send the data to you by PM. Not the spreadsheet only the data for the 60# deka.
I strongly suggest you buy the Banish DVD, it is a good investment.
Get a few gallons of race gas and mix with pump gas, do a few runs and datalog to see if the knock goes away. What spark plugs are you using?
10-02-2013, 08:41 AM
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good question on the plugs, completely forgot to mention that one.
He better be running NGK TR6's at the very least if not a step colder like NGK BKR7E-11 5791. these have a gasket that helps seal better too.
He better be running NGK TR6's at the very least if not a step colder like NGK BKR7E-11 5791. these have a gasket that helps seal better too.
10-02-2013, 10:10 AM
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I do run tr6's. gapped at .025 if i remember correctly. I have access to race gas. I also have devils own kit that was not in use in the logs i posted. Im running 50/50 mix but am not spraying it yet.