Procharger Newb questions
09-17-2013, 10:59 AM
#1
Procharger Newb questions Alright so I have been tossing back in fourth whether or not to boost my nearly stock LS1 via a Ps1c or Ds1c procharger.
I have read a **** ton a threads and articles all over the place about boosting the LS1's but Im just looking for advice on a few things before I pull the plug.
This would be going on my STOCK bottom end, so I plan on pushing only 5-7#'s for now. I would like to be on the conservative side of a tune and be reliable rather than playing with fire for most power.
So my questions are...
1.) Should I buy a kit or peice the kit together? I have heard alot about issues with the procharger fans not cooling enough...would that be an issue with the little boost I would be pushing?
2.) Meth injection....I know it creates good amount of extra power, but will it help to aid for safe boosting? ...would it be a good safety precaution for run an Alky control kit? Please enlighten me on Meth kits, I have never used nor seen one in real life
3.) What are some basic things that would most likely take a **** on me from boosting and seeing hopefully 440-470rwhp?
I know the stock 10bolt is risky....I keep street tires on it, and try to take kinda easy on it...anything else I can do to add support and increase longevity?
Sorry for soo many questions and thanks in advance for any input or help!!
DK
I have read a **** ton a threads and articles all over the place about boosting the LS1's but Im just looking for advice on a few things before I pull the plug.
This would be going on my STOCK bottom end, so I plan on pushing only 5-7#'s for now. I would like to be on the conservative side of a tune and be reliable rather than playing with fire for most power.
So my questions are...
1.) Should I buy a kit or peice the kit together? I have heard alot about issues with the procharger fans not cooling enough...would that be an issue with the little boost I would be pushing?
2.) Meth injection....I know it creates good amount of extra power, but will it help to aid for safe boosting? ...would it be a good safety precaution for run an Alky control kit? Please enlighten me on Meth kits, I have never used nor seen one in real life
3.) What are some basic things that would most likely take a **** on me from boosting and seeing hopefully 440-470rwhp?
I know the stock 10bolt is risky....I keep street tires on it, and try to take kinda easy on it...anything else I can do to add support and increase longevity?
Sorry for soo many questions and thanks in advance for any input or help!!
DK
09-17-2013, 11:28 AM
#2
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buy a used kit and piece it together. i have dual fans on my procharger shroud , i added a 9" fan to help . go 8 rib right from the start with a sdce or aster bracket . i spent time and money screwing around with the 6 rib crap .
i have a p1 making 10 lbs with ls6 intake , stock heads , stock cam , mid length headers with the 10 bolt and meth making 468 hp 502 tq, i just added longtubes and what a difference , the tuner didnt put it on the dyno bc it wasnt off a ton just road tuned it . But now next year i have to switch to a sd tune .
If i did it again , id go with the aster bracket , meth , and a sd tune right from the start .
i have a p1 making 10 lbs with ls6 intake , stock heads , stock cam , mid length headers with the 10 bolt and meth making 468 hp 502 tq, i just added longtubes and what a difference , the tuner didnt put it on the dyno bc it wasnt off a ton just road tuned it . But now next year i have to switch to a sd tune .
If i did it again , id go with the aster bracket , meth , and a sd tune right from the start .
09-17-2013, 11:54 AM
#3
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In addition to the above thread I would choose the D1SC. That way you would have room to grow. Methanol gives you the extra power by 1.) cooling the air going into your intake manifold and increases the overall octane of your fuel so you have a little better resistance to detonation. You make more power because you're able to run a few more degrees of timing safely.
Just curious, have you ever looked in to a turbo set up over a procharger setup?
Just curious, have you ever looked in to a turbo set up over a procharger setup?
09-17-2013, 12:06 PM
#4
To your point #2 (meth injection), on a stock shortblock, it really should be meth/water injection. The primary reason isn't to make more power, but to help keep the motor together. Getting too much heat into the rings/pistons is what is commonly accepted as the reason that the ringlands let go. Heat causes the rings to close and bindup, which snaps the ringlands and takes out some or all of your motor. Keep the pistons cool, and you can safely push more power.
Meth/water cools the pistons far better than straight up methanol. Some can argue that this tuner or that tuner, or this company or that company say to run 100% meth, but the physics can't be ignored that a 50/50 mix of water/meth cools far better than meth alone.
When I say cools, I'm not talking about engine coolant temperature. I'm talking about the amount of heat in the crown of the piston. Heat and power are directly proportional in a internal combustion engine. Make more power, and the heat rises.
Meth/water cools the pistons far better than straight up methanol. Some can argue that this tuner or that tuner, or this company or that company say to run 100% meth, but the physics can't be ignored that a 50/50 mix of water/meth cools far better than meth alone.
When I say cools, I'm not talking about engine coolant temperature. I'm talking about the amount of heat in the crown of the piston. Heat and power are directly proportional in a internal combustion engine. Make more power, and the heat rises.
09-17-2013, 10:15 PM
#5
buy a used kit and piece it together. i have dual fans on my procharger shroud , i added a 9" fan to help . go 8 rib right from the start with a sdce or aster bracket . i spent time and money screwing around with the 6 rib crap .
i have a p1 making 10 lbs with ls6 intake , stock heads , stock cam , mid length headers with the 10 bolt and meth making 468 hp 502 tq, i just added longtubes and what a difference , the tuner didnt put it on the dyno bc it wasnt off a ton just road tuned it . But now next year i have to switch to a sd tune .
If i did it again , id go with the aster bracket , meth , and a sd tune right from the start .
i have a p1 making 10 lbs with ls6 intake , stock heads , stock cam , mid length headers with the 10 bolt and meth making 468 hp 502 tq, i just added longtubes and what a difference , the tuner didnt put it on the dyno bc it wasnt off a ton just road tuned it . But now next year i have to switch to a sd tune .
If i did it again , id go with the aster bracket , meth , and a sd tune right from the start .
Stock bottom end as well? How long have you been running the procharger?
In addition to the above thread I would choose the D1SC. That way you would have room to grow. Methanol gives you the extra power by 1.) cooling the air going into your intake manifold and increases the overall octane of your fuel so you have a little better resistance to detonation. You make more power because you're able to run a few more degrees of timing safely.
Just curious, have you ever looked in to a turbo set up over a procharger setup?
Just curious, have you ever looked in to a turbo set up over a procharger setup?
Also 2 of my best buddies....one is turbo, the other is about to be on the bottle...so I figure why not. The reliablity of the PC vs Turbo, less routine maintence, Idk just fits my needs better I believe.Doesnt the PS1 spool up alot faster than the Ds1? like say 7# boost with either one, wouldnt it hit alot faster with the P1? I know more room to grow, but it would be some gooooood time before I went anything that the PS1 couldnt handle.
Thanks guys keep info coming
09-17-2013, 10:20 PM
#6
To your point #2 (meth injection), on a stock shortblock, it really should be meth/water injection. The primary reason isn't to make more power, but to help keep the motor together. Getting too much heat into the rings/pistons is what is commonly accepted as the reason that the ringlands let go. Heat causes the rings to close and bindup, which snaps the ringlands and takes out some or all of your motor. Keep the pistons cool, and you can safely push more power.
Meth/water cools the pistons far better than straight up methanol. Some can argue that this tuner or that tuner, or this company or that company say to run 100% meth, but the physics can't be ignored that a 50/50 mix of water/meth cools far better than meth alone.
When I say cools, I'm not talking about engine coolant temperature. I'm talking about the amount of heat in the crown of the piston. Heat and power are directly proportional in a internal combustion engine. Make more power, and the heat rises.
Meth/water cools the pistons far better than straight up methanol. Some can argue that this tuner or that tuner, or this company or that company say to run 100% meth, but the physics can't be ignored that a 50/50 mix of water/meth cools far better than meth alone.
When I say cools, I'm not talking about engine coolant temperature. I'm talking about the amount of heat in the crown of the piston. Heat and power are directly proportional in a internal combustion engine. Make more power, and the heat rises.
So YES on the meth injection...check!
Yeah I have heard that the water and meth mix is the way to go, thus what I would plan on doing that. Are there specific kits for mixing or could I just get either a Snow or Alky kit and put a mix in it?
09-18-2013, 05:56 AM
#7
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Been beating on my stock bottom end since Christmas of 2011? I think? Anyway never made less than 11lbs with h/c. Meth. Meth. Meth. I swear my motor is still together because I spray lotsa meth! 2 10gph noodles spraying 75/25 meth/water. I like to push a little on my setups so I regularly see 16lbs of boost. But if you don't like living on the edge do d1sc at 8lbs with meth. If you like spending money twice but the stock procharger bracket. Good luck and enjoy!
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09-18-2013, 06:46 AM
#8
If you can pulley an F1A down to 8 lbs I would do that. Sure it throws a lot of heat but **** when your stock block goes you'll probably get a forged block or a junk yard 5.3 or 6.0 and you'll be wishing you'd skipped the p1 or the d1sc like me. Buy once and call it a day. Oh and go front mount skip the meth its just stock. You can make over 500 to the wheel with out it.. I lived like that for three years before I took out my stock block and sold it and went with forged a block..
09-18-2013, 07:15 AM
#9
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add Devil's Own to your options in meth kits and compare the 3. devils gives you an option to buy the bottle seperate so you can choose just how big of a tank you want...or no tank at all. i chose to use my windshield washer as my meth tank so it saved me a little money on not having to buy a tank.
09-18-2013, 07:33 AM
#10
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im on the stock block , been procharged for 3 years and over 20000 miles .
The sdce is a tensioned setup , it uses a smaller 7.25 crank pulley , they aster uses the larger 7.65 crank pulley and also you need a vette waterpump .
Btw both of these will require a new pinned ati balancer. about 450 bucks . And they rarely come up for sale .
Go with a d1 and do a fmic , you can buy a diy fmic kit on ebay for 250 shipped . Dont use a maf , skip that , go right to 8-10 lbs , meth and no maf tune .
The sdce is a tensioned setup , it uses a smaller 7.25 crank pulley , they aster uses the larger 7.65 crank pulley and also you need a vette waterpump .
Btw both of these will require a new pinned ati balancer. about 450 bucks . And they rarely come up for sale .
Go with a d1 and do a fmic , you can buy a diy fmic kit on ebay for 250 shipped . Dont use a maf , skip that , go right to 8-10 lbs , meth and no maf tune .
09-18-2013, 10:33 AM
#11
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just curious im currently waiting to get my car ack from the shop and am in a similar situation as the OP i just installed my d1sc and want to know the benefits of the Sd tune over the MAF tune
09-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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well im at 480ish hp now with my longtubes and my 85mm maf is having a hard time . Its a little jerky coming in from shifts as the pc now blows more air and it doesnt like it . Also up top the maf cant read it , it can be scaled but im into the area where i need a sd tune . The maf was never meant to have air pushed into it and it isnt happy , and its a brand new gm maf . general rule about 8 lbs and up time to switch to a sd tune . And trust me my tuner held me off on the sd tune as long as possible but its just too mush boost on my setup now.
09-18-2013, 11:13 AM
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Definitely go water/meth injection if using stock internals. Im running a #10 and #7 dual nozzle setup coming on at 6 psi. My iats drop about 30 degrees on the street.
09-18-2013, 12:20 PM
#15
Bob at Brutespeed will take care of you, give him a call he will get you the parts you need at a great price.
Go with the D1SC from the get go so you have room to grow and if you decide to ditch the blower in the future it is easier to sell than the P blower.
Go with the D1SC from the get go so you have room to grow and if you decide to ditch the blower in the future it is easier to sell than the P blower.
09-18-2013, 01:50 PM
#16
Been beating on my stock bottom end since Christmas of 2011? I think? Anyway never made less than 11lbs with h/c. Meth. Meth. Meth. I swear my motor is still together because I spray lotsa meth! 2 10gph noodles spraying 75/25 meth/water. I like to push a little on my setups so I regularly see 16lbs of boost. But if you don't like living on the edge do d1sc at 8lbs with meth. If you like spending money twice but the stock procharger bracket. Good luck and enjoy!
Just trying to get the safest setup possible for a few years until I get everything else in my life all set....then forged and ALOT of boost! haha
add Devil's Own to your options in meth kits and compare the 3. devils gives you an option to buy the bottle seperate so you can choose just how big of a tank you want...or no tank at all. i chose to use my windshield washer as my meth tank so it saved me a little money on not having to buy a tank.
[QUOTE=ramairetransam;17693244]im on the stock block , been procharged for 3 years and over 20000 miles .
The sdce is a tensioned setup , it uses a smaller 7.25 crank pulley , they aster uses the larger 7.65 crank pulley and also you need a vette waterpump .
Btw both of these will require a new pinned ati balancer. about 450 bucks . And they rarely come up for sale .
Go with a d1 and do a fmic , you can buy a diy fmic kit on ebay for 250 shipped . Dont use a maf , skip that , go right to 8-10 lbs , meth and no maf tune .[/QUOTE
You HAVE to run a vett waterpump?! No matter what? Or just if I run the aster/sdce in order to make clearance? Yeah I've looked at those ebay ones, they dont look half bad.
Thanks, that was going to be one of my next questions.
09-18-2013, 02:03 PM
#17
Alright so gonna keep my eyes open for a D1, either with front mount or get one of fleabay...
For the tensioners....Is belt slip really an issue when only running 5-8# of boost? If so, then I'll keep eyes open for some of that equipment...which is better Aster or SDCE??
Anyone have inputs on which meth kit is best and why? Snow,Alky, or Devils?
Also....I need a good tuner in Michigan...southeast area, Im about 45mins north of Detroit. I have heard good and bad about Livernois...and alot of good about CARS...what about Vector, or what used to be called Wheel 2 Wheel..i forgot what they are called now.
Thanks again everyone! Im getting great info!
For the tensioners....Is belt slip really an issue when only running 5-8# of boost? If so, then I'll keep eyes open for some of that equipment...which is better Aster or SDCE??
Anyone have inputs on which meth kit is best and why? Snow,Alky, or Devils?
Also....I need a good tuner in Michigan...southeast area, Im about 45mins north of Detroit. I have heard good and bad about Livernois...and alot of good about CARS...what about Vector, or what used to be called Wheel 2 Wheel..i forgot what they are called now.
Thanks again everyone! Im getting great info!
09-18-2013, 05:23 PM
#18
I could have gotten any bracket or meth kit I wanted, and I chose Alky and Aster. Plenty of other people have done the same. The quality of the Alky is top notch, however, Any meth is better than no meth, but the Alky pump can run 100% methanol. Julio is a guru on that **** too. The aster allows you to run a bigger pulley I believe the 7.65 from ATI, and although I have not seen both, I know the aster is probably slightly nicer and better made, although they both get the job done.
09-19-2013, 05:41 AM
#19
To the OP, take a look at the kit at this link.
http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1TE10...-Speed-Kit.htm
There are many options available at the bottom of the link, including the option to delete the intercoolers. Bob
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