Complete A/C system swap possible?
09-27-2013, 04:24 PM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Complete A/C system swap possible? I'm putting together my list and looking to start collecting parts for a swap into my far from stock '73 Stingray when a thought came to me. Why can't I swap the whole A/C system into my car while I'm at it? The car came with with A/C from the factory but is missing the compressor and I presume what's remaining is bunk.
I'm looking at getting a complete LM7 pullout from an '02 Silverado and making all of my own brackets to squeeze all of the accessories in. What would it take to go ahead and get the evaporator, condenser, accumulator and expansion valve from the donor and fit them into the car and working with the stock C3 controls?
I'm looking at getting a complete LM7 pullout from an '02 Silverado and making all of my own brackets to squeeze all of the accessories in. What would it take to go ahead and get the evaporator, condenser, accumulator and expansion valve from the donor and fit them into the car and working with the stock C3 controls?
09-27-2013, 05:23 PM
#3
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't found any measurements yet, but it seems like an even swap. I can only judge from pictures for now but nothing looks to be THAT much bigger, if at all.
So for the sake of argument lets say everything fits. Besides the lines and blower motor, am I missing any parts? What else would it take to make it work with the stock controls? I'm sourcing everything I listed from the junkyard to be a little under $200, so call it $300 for lines, fittings and blower motor etc. From what I've seen Vintage air it looks like $1400. So besides possibly size, why can't it work?
So for the sake of argument lets say everything fits. Besides the lines and blower motor, am I missing any parts? What else would it take to make it work with the stock controls? I'm sourcing everything I listed from the junkyard to be a little under $200, so call it $300 for lines, fittings and blower motor etc. From what I've seen Vintage air it looks like $1400. So besides possibly size, why can't it work?
09-27-2013, 05:32 PM
#4
If you can physically get it to fit.. and figure out how to get the controls to work.. then no reason it can't work.. Saw a 2nd Gen F-body with everything from a 4th gen that was swapped in.. but he used everything from the wire harness, PCM,BCM, Dash and controls.
09-27-2013, 09:49 PM
#5
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cool cool, good info. I was already planning on getting the harness and PCM, good to know to grab the BCM as well. After doing a little reading on that and others getting the DIC so now that got me wondering, would reprograming allow me to use a heads up?
09-28-2013, 07:27 AM
#6
Do you still have the dash evaporator assembly?
I know just enough about AC systems to really screw things up. But it seems to me you could wire a truck fixed displacement compressor from the original AC request line. The early 70 GM cars just ran the AC clutch wire through a thermostat and a binary switch.
I know just enough about AC systems to really screw things up. But it seems to me you could wire a truck fixed displacement compressor from the original AC request line. The early 70 GM cars just ran the AC clutch wire through a thermostat and a binary switch.
09-28-2013, 08:55 AM
#7
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't dug in yet but I'm fairly certain the only thing missing is the compressor, probably lost with the original motor.
Does that mean I wouldn't need the BCM or would that be going in line?
Does that mean I wouldn't need the BCM or would that be going in line?
Trending Topics
09-28-2013, 10:10 AM
#8
On my Chevelle w/LS1, I am running the stock AC equipment with the exception of the LS1 compressor and some custom lines to mate everything up.
I still have the variable compressor, which I really should replace with a fixed one. But the only problem I have is that it doesn't cool well after sitting in bumper to bumper traffic.. but all of times it blow 48 dregee. A new condenser would also help.
I still have the old Chevelle SBC compressor, which was a rebuilt unit that worked well...
BC
I still have the variable compressor, which I really should replace with a fixed one. But the only problem I have is that it doesn't cool well after sitting in bumper to bumper traffic.. but all of times it blow 48 dregee. A new condenser would also help.
I still have the old Chevelle SBC compressor, which was a rebuilt unit that worked well...
BC
09-28-2013, 03:22 PM
#9
If the compressor is gone and hoses open and exposed for however many decades, you don't know the condition of the parts. It's possible you hook up a new compressor only to kill it by circulating debris.
I'm not sure if converting to R134a requires a new expansion valve/orifice tube, but you could try to transfer over the compressor, lines, condenser, dryer, and pressure valves from the truck. Blow out your evaporator. And let us know if it works.
I'm not sure if converting to R134a requires a new expansion valve/orifice tube, but you could try to transfer over the compressor, lines, condenser, dryer, and pressure valves from the truck. Blow out your evaporator. And let us know if it works.
09-28-2013, 04:09 PM
#10
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A New Hope If the compressor is gone and hoses open and exposed for however many decades, you don't know the condition of the parts. It's possible you hook up a new compressor only to kill it by circulating debris.
I'm not sure if converting to R134a requires a new expansion valve/orifice tube, but you could try to transfer over the compressor, lines, condenser, dryer, and pressure valves from the truck. Blow out your evaporator. And let us know if it works.
I'm not sure if converting to R134a requires a new expansion valve/orifice tube, but you could try to transfer over the compressor, lines, condenser, dryer, and pressure valves from the truck. Blow out your evaporator. And let us know if it works.
And then I found this thread. . .
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...-solution.html
Been digging around all day when I came across that. I'll cut and paste some of the highlights for easy future reference:
#1
originally i wanted to run the factory 98-2002 F-body compressor and condensor, and even purchased the BRP kit because it said on their site you could use it with their mount kit. well it turns out the truck compressor is the only one you can use without notching the frame because the lines are on the back of the F-body compressor and it wont clear the frame! i wasnt about to switch everything over from the F-body to the truck stuff and a vintage air setup wasnt an option because i wanted a "factory appearing" setup, also the stuff in the car worked perfectly fine so heres what i did:
the car is a 1980 malibu 2 door(but this will work for every G-body 78-88) with factory heat/ac. i got the holley R4 bracket part number 20-133 ($130 from summit) and the install kit for the f-body/GTO accessories part number 21-2($60 from summit - comes with a spacer and hardware). the R4 compressor GM part number 88964863 (was used on TBI v8 camaros) i actually had but it runs @ $150-200. went to the U-pull it junkyard and got a condenser from an 87 cutlass($20), suction line($10) and high side line($10) - the 78-87 cutlass came with this style compressor mounted passenger side so it seemed like it was meant to be, and with a little tweaking here and there it fits great! it all bolts right in, i had to bend the line off the accumulator to get a better angle for the low-side hose. also had to bend the high side line a little (and have a high pressure switch port welded in).
i need to grab a belt tomorrow(according to my measurement it should take a 6PK2448) and modify the camaro radiator by cutting off the tabs for the factory condenser so it fits better. also need to move my trans cooler.
for the compressor control im going to wire it like it was a 2002 f-body (have the a/c request go through the pcm) so itll bump the idle up, turn on the fans, turn the compressor off @ WOT.
the car is a 1980 malibu 2 door(but this will work for every G-body 78-88) with factory heat/ac. i got the holley R4 bracket part number 20-133 ($130 from summit) and the install kit for the f-body/GTO accessories part number 21-2($60 from summit - comes with a spacer and hardware). the R4 compressor GM part number 88964863 (was used on TBI v8 camaros) i actually had but it runs @ $150-200. went to the U-pull it junkyard and got a condenser from an 87 cutlass($20), suction line($10) and high side line($10) - the 78-87 cutlass came with this style compressor mounted passenger side so it seemed like it was meant to be, and with a little tweaking here and there it fits great! it all bolts right in, i had to bend the line off the accumulator to get a better angle for the low-side hose. also had to bend the high side line a little (and have a high pressure switch port welded in).
i need to grab a belt tomorrow(according to my measurement it should take a 6PK2448) and modify the camaro radiator by cutting off the tabs for the factory condenser so it fits better. also need to move my trans cooler.
for the compressor control im going to wire it like it was a 2002 f-body (have the a/c request go through the pcm) so itll bump the idle up, turn on the fans, turn the compressor off @ WOT.
I did almost same thing to my 1977 C3 Corvette except I used Kwik Performance a/c bracket so that I could us new style Sanden Compressor. I did use 02 Camaro condenser with stock corvette accumulator and heater. I used custom lines (half camaro / half c3 corvette). I am using high pressure switch (port welded as well) and also sending a/c request signal to PCM in order to increase idle before a/c clicks on. I kept stock corvette HVAC controls.
everyone thats seen it says it looks factory, so i guess thats a good thing. also i think you maybe replied to my post on MalibuRacing to let you know what i ended up doing, so if you have any questions feel free to ask
this morning i wired everything up permanently to be controlled by the ECM. basically 9 wires in a little stand-alone harness i made and tucked away since all the wiring was done 6 months ago -maybe this winter ill open it all back up and re-do it but for now its functional and not a show car by any means. the factory LS1 diagram has a diode in-line with the compressor clutch wiring so i put one it, fired it up and popped the fuse... so after some head scratching i ditched the diode and it worked fine (not sure if its the different compressor or whatever - the diode is supposed to stop voltage spiking back into the circuit). anyway, drove the car all day (it was 90* here today with high humidity) and it worked great. ECM controls everything, bumps the idle up when the compressor comes on, turns the fans on, yadda yadda yadda. overall very happy with how it works so far lol
this morning i wired everything up permanently to be controlled by the ECM. basically 9 wires in a little stand-alone harness i made and tucked away since all the wiring was done 6 months ago -maybe this winter ill open it all back up and re-do it but for now its functional and not a show car by any means. the factory LS1 diagram has a diode in-line with the compressor clutch wiring so i put one it, fired it up and popped the fuse... so after some head scratching i ditched the diode and it worked fine (not sure if its the different compressor or whatever - the diode is supposed to stop voltage spiking back into the circuit). anyway, drove the car all day (it was 90* here today with high humidity) and it worked great. ECM controls everything, bumps the idle up when the compressor comes on, turns the fans on, yadda yadda yadda. overall very happy with how it works so far lol
p.s. FWIW I'm sure I came across this before and didn't click on it, but I found it when I googled "c3 corvette a/c request line"
Last edited by I Hates Rabbits; 09-28-2013 at 04:45 PM.
09-30-2013, 10:30 AM
#11
TECH Enthusiast
I am in the process of converting a factory A/C to a modern setup. I am already running a Vintage Air with a factory Variable compressor. The problem with the aftermarket systems is that they do not run fresh air, the fan is noisy, and the vent switches don't work very well. All you get is a recirc for the system. My VA box is also what I would call marginal for an A/C system which I would consider barely adequate in the desert. I bought the system while I was living in Arizona. When you compare the aftermarket systems to a factory you will see they do not even begin to come close. The evaporator is probably twice the size as a VA unit. You have to put up with the bulky box in the engine compartment but 13.5x8x3.5 inch evaporator is well worth it along with the fan outside and fresh air. Now onto the conversion. Here is what I am in the process of doing to a 69 Camaro:
1. I have a full factory A/C setup from a 76 Nova. It is a VIR system and you have a POA system. You can choose to convert your evaporator, poa valve, or try to find one that fits into your existing box. My direction is to get a newer orifice tube system evaporator that fits since I believe I can do it for less than $100. If you choose to convert you will pay about $100 for an accumulator and a conversion that runs two tubes into one.
2. The next step is to match a newer condenser to the evaporator system, with an accumulator and orifice tube. The older systems again will work but this is just a preference. When you do this also get the lines.
3. Wire it with the newer pressure sensor, as a modern system along with the older stuff. A/C request, fans, etc. Since this is an 02 setup you can run a normal A/C request and you do not need a BCM to control this but you may have to program your PCM depending on the compressor setting.
Bottom line an original factory A/C system running modern internals for the A/C including the wiring where needed and the rest is original -vents, fan, heater core, etc. I got the idea from one of the guys here on the forum that did a 72 truck but he changed the box to fit his evaporator. I think his handle is 72 ls nova or something like that. I will look up his handle or link to his build it was a beautiful truck that he sold when he was done.
1. I have a full factory A/C setup from a 76 Nova. It is a VIR system and you have a POA system. You can choose to convert your evaporator, poa valve, or try to find one that fits into your existing box. My direction is to get a newer orifice tube system evaporator that fits since I believe I can do it for less than $100. If you choose to convert you will pay about $100 for an accumulator and a conversion that runs two tubes into one.
2. The next step is to match a newer condenser to the evaporator system, with an accumulator and orifice tube. The older systems again will work but this is just a preference. When you do this also get the lines.
3. Wire it with the newer pressure sensor, as a modern system along with the older stuff. A/C request, fans, etc. Since this is an 02 setup you can run a normal A/C request and you do not need a BCM to control this but you may have to program your PCM depending on the compressor setting.
Bottom line an original factory A/C system running modern internals for the A/C including the wiring where needed and the rest is original -vents, fan, heater core, etc. I got the idea from one of the guys here on the forum that did a 72 truck but he changed the box to fit his evaporator. I think his handle is 72 ls nova or something like that. I will look up his handle or link to his build it was a beautiful truck that he sold when he was done.
09-30-2013, 12:36 PM
#12
I did this in my thirdgen build. Granted...my car is a LOT closer to a 4th gen than what you're doing probably.
Basically I just blended the two HVAC boxes together and sealed it up. Then it was just a matter of hooking things up. My HVAC controls are stand alone, so it just takes the PCM a/c request signal and goes from there.
The smaller line was able to be tweaked to fit where I needed it.
This is an in progress shot when I was modifying the box.
One of the fun side effects... I can remove the entire system from the car without cracking a line. Its been out of the car for a few years, and I just put it back in. Started the car for the first time and the a/c still worked!
Im not sure if that gives you any motivation or not haha. But its def possible...depending on your car's engine bay.
J.
Basically I just blended the two HVAC boxes together and sealed it up. Then it was just a matter of hooking things up. My HVAC controls are stand alone, so it just takes the PCM a/c request signal and goes from there.
The smaller line was able to be tweaked to fit where I needed it.
This is an in progress shot when I was modifying the box.
One of the fun side effects... I can remove the entire system from the car without cracking a line. Its been out of the car for a few years, and I just put it back in. Started the car for the first time and the a/c still worked!
Im not sure if that gives you any motivation or not haha. But its def possible...depending on your car's engine bay.
J.
10-02-2013, 09:07 AM
#13
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waleska, Ga
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is seeming to be fairly simple and straight forward, so I need to ask some stupid questions to make sure. I'd obviously like to use everything from the truck, just reasoning that everything was made to work together and should eliminate any compatibility headaches. Supposing I need to mishmash for size/fitting reasons, is there anything that prevents any one component from working with another? For instance if I can get the truck compressor placed under the hood but the truck evaporator won't fit in my box. An f-body evaporator won't be overpowered by the truck compressor would it? Anything else that I should be considering while I'm putting together my parts list?
In other news we should have the "shop" done this weekend and ready to pull the engine Monday, getting reeeealy anxious!
In other news we should have the "shop" done this weekend and ready to pull the engine Monday, getting reeeealy anxious!
10-02-2013, 09:25 AM
#14
if the vette came with an R4 style compressor(I think they did I cant really remember) and its on the passenger side you could easily do what I did with my Malibu using mostly factory parts from the vette.
