Ready to Start building 355 very soon
12-30-2013, 07:00 PM
#1
Ready to Start building 355 very soon Hello all
I am about ready to start my 355 build. I have a general idea in mind and would love some input on parts.
It's gonna be a street car with A/C and will be driven alot.
I have a ""built trans" with 2200 stall thats going back in until it breaks again lol then I will have a good trans built with about 2500 stall. I will be rebuilding the rear soon after the engine. Not going 12 bolt or 9 inch right now because it's just not in the budget...yet Rear has 3.23 will be changed to 3.42's
After the cast crank 383 broke in half I have some parts left over that will be reused and others I am looking for some help on if to reuse or replace.
1. LE2 heads with 3k miles on them. I took the engine apart as soon as it broke so the valve springs were not loaded up by rockers for any period of time. I'm gonna take them to the machine shop just to check to make sure they are flat for good sealing surface.
2.HD timing set. It's a roller chain and I'm unsure if I should reuse the chain after a good cleaning or if I should just buy a new chain. any thoughts?
NEW SHORT BLOCK
It has 100k on it and ran fine when I took it out. Everything looks good. It will be going to the machine shop for the typical rebuild work. cleaning, Line hone, bore, check the deck, true the crank, cam bearings, Size crank main bearings.
Now the big question marks
Rods and pistons
I was looking at putting a forged JE piston in it sized at around -5cc http://www.jepistons.com/Products/271057.aspx The LE2's are sitting around 52&1/2 cc I would be using a 1074 fel-pro gasket to try and get the static compression around 11.27 to 1 with stock deck height
I was looking at using LE's 232/240 .578/.574 110 LSA cam. with LS7 lifters and a comp pro mag full roller rocker. Is this cam going to be to much for my DD with small stall? I was going to call Lloyd and talk to him about that cam or a custom grind when I send him my intake next week as well.
I would love to just reuse the stock rods and have them machined for ARP rod bolts. Can they handle this combo?
Let me know your thoughts. I was planing on dropping the block off at the machine shop in the next 2 weeks and i'm trying to keep the total cost at 2 grand or less for the short block with cam, oil pump and timing chain. If i need to budget more for rods I can. need some input on if they are the weak link for this setup or if they can handle the power.
Thanks all
I am about ready to start my 355 build. I have a general idea in mind and would love some input on parts.
It's gonna be a street car with A/C and will be driven alot.
I have a ""built trans" with 2200 stall thats going back in until it breaks again lol then I will have a good trans built with about 2500 stall. I will be rebuilding the rear soon after the engine. Not going 12 bolt or 9 inch right now because it's just not in the budget...yet Rear has 3.23 will be changed to 3.42's
After the cast crank 383 broke in half I have some parts left over that will be reused and others I am looking for some help on if to reuse or replace.
1. LE2 heads with 3k miles on them. I took the engine apart as soon as it broke so the valve springs were not loaded up by rockers for any period of time. I'm gonna take them to the machine shop just to check to make sure they are flat for good sealing surface.
2.HD timing set. It's a roller chain and I'm unsure if I should reuse the chain after a good cleaning or if I should just buy a new chain. any thoughts?
NEW SHORT BLOCK
It has 100k on it and ran fine when I took it out. Everything looks good. It will be going to the machine shop for the typical rebuild work. cleaning, Line hone, bore, check the deck, true the crank, cam bearings, Size crank main bearings.
Now the big question marks
Rods and pistons
I was looking at putting a forged JE piston in it sized at around -5cc http://www.jepistons.com/Products/271057.aspx The LE2's are sitting around 52&1/2 cc I would be using a 1074 fel-pro gasket to try and get the static compression around 11.27 to 1 with stock deck height
I was looking at using LE's 232/240 .578/.574 110 LSA cam. with LS7 lifters and a comp pro mag full roller rocker. Is this cam going to be to much for my DD with small stall? I was going to call Lloyd and talk to him about that cam or a custom grind when I send him my intake next week as well.
I would love to just reuse the stock rods and have them machined for ARP rod bolts. Can they handle this combo?
Let me know your thoughts. I was planing on dropping the block off at the machine shop in the next 2 weeks and i'm trying to keep the total cost at 2 grand or less for the short block with cam, oil pump and timing chain. If i need to budget more for rods I can. need some input on if they are the weak link for this setup or if they can handle the power.
Thanks all
12-30-2013, 11:53 PM
#2
A forged JE piston is overkill for a street engine that's not seeing nitrous or FI. The slap from the pistons is going to drive you out of your mind because the alloy is 2618 and requires a larger PTW clearance. They are more malleable and the ring grooves tend to wear out quickly compared to 4032 forged or stock style hypers. Not what you want for a motor that's going to see a lot of street miles.
Also, I think that cam is way too big for that stall.
Also, I think that cam is way too big for that stall.
12-31-2013, 06:02 AM
#3
A 2500rpm stall is a waste of money. Go bigger. Just because it says "2500 rpm" doesn't mean that you have to rev it to that rpm to get the car to move. A good "tight" 3600 rpm will drive just like stock at low revs with barely any throttle input. As soon as you mash the gas, then the rpm will spike up and transmit the power.
I would replace the timing set. A timing chain is a maintenance piece. Plus a decent sbc set won't hurt your wallet too much.
I would replace the timing set. A timing chain is a maintenance piece. Plus a decent sbc set won't hurt your wallet too much.
12-31-2013, 03:01 PM
#5
Food for thought... if a stock untouched Lt1 loves a stall speed of 2800-3200 wouldnt you think a cammed Lt1 would need more to optimize performance? Generally a cam that has an operating RPM of say 1900-5500 wants a stall speed 1000rpm higher than that cams beginning RPM so you would want a 2900 stall.... back in the day many racers would go by the weight of the car to judge the stall speed not an exact science but they did well.
If it was my set up i would reduce the size of that cam to something in the 224-232 range and definitely go 3.73 gears.....
If it was my set up i would reduce the size of that cam to something in the 224-232 range and definitely go 3.73 gears.....
12-31-2013, 03:25 PM
#6
If it ran fine when you took it out and only had 100k then you probably won't need a bore. See if you can catch a ledge with your fingernail in the cylinders - if not then I wouldn't bother boring it.
Just a refresh with new cam and main bearings, hone and new piston rings, then get the rods resized and run ARP rod bolts. Will save a bunch on new pistons and extra machine work, and easily last another 150k. A lot of aftermarket pistons are WORSE then our stockers, which are pretty light Mahles. Might as well reuse them if you don't need an overbore.
Also, that stall speed is way too low, especially for that cam. A quality 3k+ stall will be a better chice - my 3200 FTI pulls hard on the brakes and drives like a stocker. To compare, my Fuddle 3200 hits harder out of the hole but feels WAY looser driving around and won't pull against the brakes much at all at idle. It's all about quality for a street stall.
For a driver you will probably want to stay in the low-mid 220s intake duration. I'm looking real hard at the XFI466 for my TA - it is basically an upgraded hotcam with similar duration but with more lift, and on much newer more aggressive lobes so makes more power throughout the rpm range while still being a daily driver and not needing a crazy spring. The XFI467 is probably as big as I would go on a 350, 230/236 duration but being an XFI grind will need good quality springs like 918s.
Just a refresh with new cam and main bearings, hone and new piston rings, then get the rods resized and run ARP rod bolts. Will save a bunch on new pistons and extra machine work, and easily last another 150k. A lot of aftermarket pistons are WORSE then our stockers, which are pretty light Mahles. Might as well reuse them if you don't need an overbore.
Also, that stall speed is way too low, especially for that cam. A quality 3k+ stall will be a better chice - my 3200 FTI pulls hard on the brakes and drives like a stocker. To compare, my Fuddle 3200 hits harder out of the hole but feels WAY looser driving around and won't pull against the brakes much at all at idle. It's all about quality for a street stall.
For a driver you will probably want to stay in the low-mid 220s intake duration. I'm looking real hard at the XFI466 for my TA - it is basically an upgraded hotcam with similar duration but with more lift, and on much newer more aggressive lobes so makes more power throughout the rpm range while still being a daily driver and not needing a crazy spring. The XFI467 is probably as big as I would go on a 350, 230/236 duration but being an XFI grind will need good quality springs like 918s.
12-31-2013, 03:36 PM
#7
ok so 3400 to 3600 lockup stall when I can actually trust that the trans wont come apart. Not putting it in right away unless I can find a used one for a good price. I have blown 3 of these monster trans POS up so far. Engine gets built first and then sometime in June I hope to have my trans done.
As far as gears go I'm not straying from what I can get my hands on cheaply UNTIL i can get a 12 bolt or 9 inch with a more favorable gear. This is my budget and it will be done other wise I would have sold the car. so for now its 3.23's, down the road 3.73's
Replace the chain, no problem was actually gonna do it anyway. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting a part
What piston for a Daily driver then if not a JE? what is a proven piston that will keep the compression in the mid to low 11's?
I'm not gonna sit back and say this is what I'm using because I don't have enough experience with what internal pieces work. I need enough info about the parts I'm considering to not get bent over again or not bend my self over. I appreciate the insight on the pistons, stall and gear. Until it was mentioned I forgot all about the piston slap. Just keep it informative that's the main point here for me is to learn so I can have a conversation with the machine shop on what parts should go in it. Keep the advice coming.
As far as gears go I'm not straying from what I can get my hands on cheaply UNTIL i can get a 12 bolt or 9 inch with a more favorable gear. This is my budget and it will be done other wise I would have sold the car. so for now its 3.23's, down the road 3.73's
Replace the chain, no problem was actually gonna do it anyway. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting a part
What piston for a Daily driver then if not a JE? what is a proven piston that will keep the compression in the mid to low 11's?
I'm not gonna sit back and say this is what I'm using because I don't have enough experience with what internal pieces work. I need enough info about the parts I'm considering to not get bent over again or not bend my self over. I appreciate the insight on the pistons, stall and gear. Until it was mentioned I forgot all about the piston slap. Just keep it informative that's the main point here for me is to learn so I can have a conversation with the machine shop on what parts should go in it. Keep the advice coming.
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12-31-2013, 03:57 PM
#9
Swap to the Impala head gasket and your compression will be right where you want it. The Mahles that come stock in these cars are fine if you're not doing anything serious like nitrous or FI. New pistons are a waste of money if the shortblock is good and you don't have big plans for the motor. You should be more concerned with opening up your bearing clearances with a cam that has a higher RPM range.
12-31-2013, 04:11 PM
#10
By the way Your car looks alot like mine. Polished ZR1's with the mean green color lol
Last edited by jaycenk; 12-31-2013 at 04:19 PM.
12-31-2013, 04:17 PM
#11
If it ran fine when you took it out and only had 100k then you probably won't need a bore. See if you can catch a ledge with your fingernail in the cylinders - if not then I wouldn't bother boring it.
Just a refresh with new cam and main bearings, hone and new piston rings, then get the rods resized and run ARP rod bolts. Will save a bunch on new pistons and extra machine work, and easily last another 150k. A lot of aftermarket pistons are WORSE then our stockers, which are pretty light Mahles. Might as well reuse them if you don't need an overbore.
Also, that stall speed is way too low, especially for that cam. A quality 3k+ stall will be a better chice - my 3200 FTI pulls hard on the brakes and drives like a stocker. To compare, my Fuddle 3200 hits harder out of the hole but feels WAY looser driving around and won't pull against the brakes much at all at idle. It's all about quality for a street stall.
For a driver you will probably want to stay in the low-mid 220s intake duration. I'm looking real hard at the XFI466 for my TA - it is basically an upgraded hotcam with similar duration but with more lift, and on much newer more aggressive lobes so makes more power throughout the rpm range while still being a daily driver and not needing a crazy spring. The XFI467 is probably as big as I would go on a 350, 230/236 duration but being an XFI grind will need good quality springs like 918s.
Just a refresh with new cam and main bearings, hone and new piston rings, then get the rods resized and run ARP rod bolts. Will save a bunch on new pistons and extra machine work, and easily last another 150k. A lot of aftermarket pistons are WORSE then our stockers, which are pretty light Mahles. Might as well reuse them if you don't need an overbore.
Also, that stall speed is way too low, especially for that cam. A quality 3k+ stall will be a better chice - my 3200 FTI pulls hard on the brakes and drives like a stocker. To compare, my Fuddle 3200 hits harder out of the hole but feels WAY looser driving around and won't pull against the brakes much at all at idle. It's all about quality for a street stall.
For a driver you will probably want to stay in the low-mid 220s intake duration. I'm looking real hard at the XFI466 for my TA - it is basically an upgraded hotcam with similar duration but with more lift, and on much newer more aggressive lobes so makes more power throughout the rpm range while still being a daily driver and not needing a crazy spring. The XFI467 is probably as big as I would go on a 350, 230/236 duration but being an XFI grind will need good quality springs like 918s.
I had no Idea the stock pistons were that good.
Anyone have the pin height and piston volume so I can do a quick look at the static compression range?
Also what is the impala head gasket compressed thickness in inches?
Ill have to pull my LE2 build sheet and look to see what springs he used. If I remember right they are beehives.
12-31-2013, 04:21 PM
#12
OP
if your new/used shortblock does not need a .030 over bore, I would stay 350 with stock pistons, re-ring them, get block machined for a hone on cyl walls and new main & rod bearings. get the stock rods re-sized with ARP fasteners. If stock crank in the donor motor needs a polish, fine. doubt a "running" donor motor would need a .010 grind but leave that up to machine shop.
466 would be a good off the shelf cam but the one you noted, IMHO, is to big for what you are geared and stalled for. I personally like a 2200-2400 stall, mild cam 350 but others like more stall & cam. each to their own.
I am more in favor of Comp or Crane lifters over the LS7. stock replacement timing chain & gears.
you willl have a fresh built 350 with a very streetable cam that makes good TQ throughout RPM. 466 is not a high RPM cam so shifting it at 6300 is as far as you would have to go as it peaks around 5700. LE could also spec something good to meet your needs
when/if your tranny does need to be repaired you could then get a higher stall if you want. additional heat from a higher stall TC may not be the best for your "weak" tranny now.
if your new/used shortblock does not need a .030 over bore, I would stay 350 with stock pistons, re-ring them, get block machined for a hone on cyl walls and new main & rod bearings. get the stock rods re-sized with ARP fasteners. If stock crank in the donor motor needs a polish, fine. doubt a "running" donor motor would need a .010 grind but leave that up to machine shop.
466 would be a good off the shelf cam but the one you noted, IMHO, is to big for what you are geared and stalled for. I personally like a 2200-2400 stall, mild cam 350 but others like more stall & cam. each to their own.
I am more in favor of Comp or Crane lifters over the LS7. stock replacement timing chain & gears.
you willl have a fresh built 350 with a very streetable cam that makes good TQ throughout RPM. 466 is not a high RPM cam so shifting it at 6300 is as far as you would have to go as it peaks around 5700. LE could also spec something good to meet your needs
when/if your tranny does need to be repaired you could then get a higher stall if you want. additional heat from a higher stall TC may not be the best for your "weak" tranny now.
12-31-2013, 04:23 PM
#13
918 springs will work with the 466 or just about any cam you go with
12-31-2013, 06:54 PM
#14
Modern high stalls do not build heat that badly, hell I have more trouble keeping my tranny warm enough in cool weather than I have trouble keeping it cool and mine is a 5yo Edge racing converter in 3800stall that is fairly "budget" by good converter standards.
01-01-2014, 01:01 AM
#15
If you want a hot street combo with a sizable cam then the tolerances should be opened up a little bit to help stay lubricated at higher RPM. Stock clearances are pretty tight which equates to spun bearings when you add a big cam. Something like .0020-25 with rods and .0025-30 on mains with the rear cap on the loose side is what you want. Also, a high pressure spring in a stock volume oil pump would be a good idea too if you're running the stock pan.
01-01-2014, 04:19 PM
#19
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to reuse the stock pump with a different pickup. Personally, I would reuse the stock pan you're getting with this 100k LT1 and get a std volume pump with a high pressure spring. The Moroso seems like more trouble than it's worth for a street 355.