cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

I have two LSx project cars...

1964 Nova with a 5.3L, fbody bellhousing, C6 ZO6 main case, SSR tail

1949 chevy p/u with a 5.7L, complete SSR drop out T56, c5 z06 clutch pack

I just setup the engine/trans in the nova ~2 weeks ago and noticed that the fbody bell-housing rotates the trans so the shift points towards the driver where the bell-house in my '49 sets the trans straight up.

This got me thinking because I've had a TON of problems with the clutch/slave in my '49. First I blew 2 slaves without ever getting the truck on the road. Upon posting here and reading several years ago, I figured that I needed shims to push the slave closer to the clutch because of the SSR bell housing. I think my shim is 3/4" long.

Anyways, the slave recently blew out after about 6-7,000 miles of decent performance. clutch never felt great, but never was terrible either. the truck has a wilwood master, I believe a 3/4".

I pulled the truck apart and put a new OEM slave in it, new fittings, and an external bleeder setup to make things easier. I put it all back together exactly how it came apart as I was short on time.

Upon inspection of the destroyed slave I noticed two main problems.

1.) The plastic retainer on the end was partially missing.

2.) The inside bore of the slave has obviously made contact with the input shaft but only on one area....the same area/side that has been rubbing is also where the retainer is missing.

I know a picture is worth a 1000 words, but I don't have any at this time so hopefully a description will suffice.

The second problem is the one I am most concerned about. I figure it to be caused by one of two issues...

1.) the input is not engaged in the pilot causing the input to bend and rub.

2.) the shims are causing the slave to be angled and rubbing in that one spot. I don't notice any contact when I assemble though.

I assume the heat from this rubbing to be boiling my fluid and making the clutch feel go to crap. I don't hear any noises or anything strange at any time. When the clutch is operable its function is fine. Sometimes it is hard to hit 6th gear but I'm not sure that is a clutch issue?

Before I go back in there and rip everything apart to measure I was hoping to find some answers from you guys.

1.) does anyone know the differences between the SSR bell-housing and other fbody bell-housings?

2.) I've read before( I think) that the SSR bell housing is longer than an fbody. I assume this is what I found when I measured a long time ago. I remember the first couple of slaves blew out because when they were full proud they just touched the clutch, so I had to shim it out quite far so that the clutch would depress the slave. The shims I made are two 3/8" thick aluminum disks.

anyways, is the input longer on the SSR trans as well to go with the longer bell-housing? does my pilot theory hold water?

that's all I have now. Maybe if a conversation breaks out I'll have more.

Thanks guys.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

TTT! Anyone?

Rob WS6

iTrader: (16)

When you made those shims, did you measure everything correctly? Clutch teeth to bellhousing, compressed slave (with spring removed) to adapter plate.

I would also measure the depth of the pilot bearing in relation to the bellhousing... if your input shaft isn't engaging the pilot, you're going to damage the transmission big time. Unfortunately I don't know specifics of the SSR bellhousing, but a little measurement will give you all the answers you need... Its like pushrod length. Id rather measure myself just to be sure. If you had to make 3/8" spacers, then that's at least 3/8" that your input shaft isn't engaging the pilot. Im fairly certain they make extended pilot bushings to remedy this.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

I agree. Its a PITA for me to rip it all apart but that's what needs to happen.

I was just hoping to foreshadow the imminent work.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

anyone know the diameter of the base of the slave? I'm going to have to make a spacer like this...

http://s121.photobucket.com/user/34c...25d90.jpg.html


but I need to know what size billet to order so I can machine it out. IIRC its around 4". But I was looking for a more exact number and my slave is in the truck so I can't measure it.

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

I stopped reading right here;
"1.) the input is not engaged in the pilot causing the input to bend and rub. "
That's a disaster waiting to happen if you didn't already damage the trans.
There are 2 styles of pilot bearings. A small OD one that rides in the inner crank flange, used on f body trans. And a larger OD bearing that rides in the outer crank flange, used on CTS-V, LS7. It sits farther back than the f body bearing.
I'm betting you're using the f body style with an input shaft/bell designed for the CTS-V style.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

If your car doesn't mind some variance in the length of the trans. assembly, I'd aim for use of the big pilot bearing (farther out in the crank; ~2.5" diameter.)

AFAIK, the CTS-V bell is deeper and the SSR is too.

The M6 thread bolts for the GM slave have potential for issues; probably moreso with great big shims. I'd be more comfortable if they had used M8 like Chrysler but I digress.

That said, in order to use the longer bell with farther-out & larger pilot bearing, you might look into a longer slave design. I believe these were utilized by the CTS-V, G8 and 5th gen Camaro.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking you are correct. The engine I am using is a 2000-2001 corvette ls1. I never touched the pilot bearing except to lube it.


I didn't know these had a longer slave. I will look into it. Would anyone have a comparison of the f-body vs cts-v?

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

this looks promising. Except this thread mentions a shorter input...is the SSR input short or the bell housing longer?



from this thread.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...questions.html

so basically I need the c6 pilot bearing and c6 slave. This will get rid of my spacer and bolt the slave directly to the face of the trans.

My question now is the c6 slave looks like it has a different fitting for the pressure line than the ls1 slave. Is this true? Right now I have an adapter fitting that gets roll pin'd in the ls1 slave and adapts me to -3 an. Is a similar fitting made for the c6 ls7 slave?

Rob WS6

iTrader: (16)

As always with mix and match parts, its a big guessing game. The only way youre going to get the correct answers you need are by physically measuring. Everything else is a crapshoot. First thing I would focus on is the pilot engagement. If the input shaft hasn't engaged the pilot, then chances are your trans is already damaged. The big pilot "should" fix your problem, but again, you need to measure first to make sure. \

Once that's squared away, then measure for the slave and go from there. I don't see why a correctly made spacer wouldn't work, though keep in mind that there probably aren't any off the shelf parts that are "right" for your application. You might get lucky with the c6 slave, or it might just get you close, and then you can fine tune from there. Just make sure its not TOO long, then youll never get full engagement.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

I agree.

My situation is I've moved 5 hrs away from the truck and drive in on the weekends to work on it every now and again. So it really blows when I go to fix something and I don't have the right parts...as it is basically another month it is broken before I get down there again.

That's why I'm trying to play out the situation as best I can. I'm going to have my dad order the LS7 slave and pilot. If I don't use it I can return. I'll also order a chunk of aluminum that I can machine a spacer from, encase I want to go that route.

the only thing I have left is to try and find an adapter fitting to get me to -3 an off the LS7 slave. I'm going to keep looking, or maybe make something custom.

edit- would anyone know what that OD of this spacer is? from Katech?

http://cdn.nexternal.com/katech/images/KAT-3816_1.jpg

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

Just to follow up incase anyone is watching this for answers..

I did find out the SSR is a dual mass flywheel. Now it makes sense why I needed the spacer for my F-body slave and why my pilot is probably not engaged.

I went ahead and bought a ls7 slave and pilot as this seems to be what people are using when they switch to single mass flywheels. In the next few weeks I will try to install. I'll post what fixes the problem.

88SS LS1

iTrader: (9)

I believe tick performance has slave cylinder shims available.

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

Did the install this past weekend.

My pilot was enguaged about 1/16". so basically not at all. Swapped the needle bearing pilot for the sealed bearing and that fixed that. Trans seemed fine BTW.

I bolted up the ls7 slave and measured it out. For one, it has about .5" more throw. But without any shims it was basically perfect. I maybe could have shimmed it 1/16
" but I just left it. It works great. Engagement is half way through my pedal swing and I'm positive it is fully engaging and disengaging on pedel out/ pedal in. All in all I think it was very successful.

I did have to make a custom pressure fitting to adapt to my -3an line. I also drilled and tapped the bleeder bigger to M10 so I could use my remote bleeder kit. Lastly, since the pressure line comes out at a different angle, I had to make a new notch in the mid plate to pass the line through. If I had a hard line in there I may could have bent it, but my braided AN line was not going to bend to clear. The notch wasn't a big deal though...just drilled a hole and slotted it with a cutoff wheel. All edges rounded off so no cracks propagate.

that's about it. /end thread. Thanks all who helped and gave me other threads to search.

Rob WS6

iTrader: (16)

Good to hear, you got lucky with that LS7 slave being perfect!

cajundragger

iTrader: (2)

I have all gm parts so I didn't think it was a complete shot in the dark.

2001 LS1 with LS6 clutch pack(comes from gm...fw,pp,disk), and the ssr trans with bellhousing.

If I had a weird LQ4 crank flange or something I could see it not working but I was confident.