Won't go in reverse, occasional grinds, clutch pedal feels wrong
02-25-2014, 11:43 AM
#1
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Won't go in reverse, occasional grinds, clutch pedal feels wrong Hey guys.. I have a 2000 SS (45k miles) with a monster stage 3 and a tick adjustable master cylinder. Clutch and master cylinder definitely have less than 10k miles and probably less than 7k.
Every since I have had the car (it had a different moster stage 3 in it when i bought it with a stock master) the first issue is occasionally it won't go into reverse. The shifter will go about halfway through the gate but will not fully go into reverse. However, if you keep pressure on the shifter and slowly let out on the clutch it will drop into gear. This issue still persists with the new monster and tick master.
Secondly, a more recent issue, the car occasionally will grind when shifting both under normal driving and under WOT even though the clutch is completely depressed.
Lastly, I have began to notice the clutch feels different from day to day driving. Sometimes the clutch starts to grab closer to the floor and sometimes it doesn't grab until closer to the end of the clutch pedal range. Not a huge difference but noticeable to someone who drives the car daily. I have also noticed the clutch pedal has some "dead space" when you first start to depress the clutch. What I mean is, you can tap the clutch pedal and it will move about a half an inch without actually beginning to disengage the clutch. Occasionally when shifting the clutch pedal will get stuck in this dead space for a second until it rises all the way off the floor. This dead space will sometimes go away if you tap on the pedal a bunch of times to "pump" it per say.
The clutch however does not slip an there is never any smell of clutch burning.
Hoping someone call tell me what the issue is. Thanks for your help in advance!
-Cody
Every since I have had the car (it had a different moster stage 3 in it when i bought it with a stock master) the first issue is occasionally it won't go into reverse. The shifter will go about halfway through the gate but will not fully go into reverse. However, if you keep pressure on the shifter and slowly let out on the clutch it will drop into gear. This issue still persists with the new monster and tick master.
Secondly, a more recent issue, the car occasionally will grind when shifting both under normal driving and under WOT even though the clutch is completely depressed.
Lastly, I have began to notice the clutch feels different from day to day driving. Sometimes the clutch starts to grab closer to the floor and sometimes it doesn't grab until closer to the end of the clutch pedal range. Not a huge difference but noticeable to someone who drives the car daily. I have also noticed the clutch pedal has some "dead space" when you first start to depress the clutch. What I mean is, you can tap the clutch pedal and it will move about a half an inch without actually beginning to disengage the clutch. Occasionally when shifting the clutch pedal will get stuck in this dead space for a second until it rises all the way off the floor. This dead space will sometimes go away if you tap on the pedal a bunch of times to "pump" it per say.
The clutch however does not slip an there is never any smell of clutch burning.
Hoping someone call tell me what the issue is. Thanks for your help in advance!
-Cody
02-26-2014, 08:29 AM
#3
i had almost this exact problem. in the beginning i just thought the car was just getting some miles on it with normal wear and tear, id have to put the car in first gear then take it out and put it in reverse to get it into reverse sometimes. then it all got worse because i didnt check it out. i had a mcloud master and LS7 clutch. turned out that the dead space was my master on its way out(probably cracked and letting air in somewhere) until it eventually fully broke, i could still drive the car but it wasnt easy, the clutch would literally be dead till the floor and you had to put the car in gear before youd start it just to get it into first or reverse. i replaced that with the Tick master and its been fine since. as for the grinding i assumed that was my synchros getting mashed up from almost forcing it in and out of gears and i was right, however they were never perfect since i bought the car, i ended up sending it to Tick for a complete overhaul and came back better then ever. but you probably dont need to do that, any trans shop should be able to replace those if thats the case.
02-26-2014, 09:11 AM
#4
i had almost this exact problem. in the beginning i just thought the car was just getting some miles on it with normal wear and tear, id have to put the car in first gear then take it out and put it in reverse to get it into reverse sometimes. then it all got worse because i didnt check it out. i had a mcloud master and LS7 clutch. turned out that the dead space was my master on its way out(probably cracked and letting air in somewhere) until it eventually fully broke, i could still drive the car but it wasnt easy, the clutch would literally be dead till the floor and you had to put the car in gear before youd start it just to get it into first or reverse. i replaced that with the Tick master and its been fine since. as for the grinding i assumed that was my synchros getting mashed up from almost forcing it in and out of gears and i was right, however they were never perfect since i bought the car, i ended up sending it to Tick for a complete overhaul and came back better then ever. but you probably dont need to do that, any trans shop should be able to replace those if thats the case.
02-26-2014, 10:55 AM
#5
Sounds like you have a hydraulic issue going on with the pedal acting funny. I'd bleed it and make sure the hydraulic lines are clear of the headers as well as the Tick is adjusted correctly as overextending the pressure plate can cause disengagement issues as well. Hope that helps, Chris 817-750-2000
03-17-2014, 04:04 PM
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First off, I forgot to mention we also replaced the slave as well as the master and the clutch itself. So basically, every part of the hydrolic clutch system was replaced within 10k miles and probably closer to 7k miles including the hydrolic fluid itself. So unless the products were defective from the factory, (monster clutch, tick master and speed bleeeder, GM performance slave) then I really can't see the parts wearing out in such a quick amount of time.
The syncro's could however be getting worn since to my knowledge the transmission itself has never been rebuilt. Wouldn't have been my first guess with the car only having 45k miles but then again I'm no mechanic.
So since I posted originally I have bled the clutch. First issue, when bleeding the clutch, after my dad opened the speed bleeder, I then depressed the clutch, held to the floor, he closed the speed bleeder and then i lifted my foot. The clutch stayed on the ground. The only way the clutch would come back is to lift it up with my leg. But then if you barely tapped the pedal it would fall completely to the floor again.
So, we continued to bleed the clutch by physically lifting the pedal off the floor after the bleeder was closed. After over a pint of fluid bled through the system the clutch would still stick to the floor until you picked it back up. The only way for the clutch to return to normal was to grab the clutch pedal by hand and pump it through its range of motion many times until pressure gradually started to build back up.
Once the pedal felt normal again, we tried to bleed it again to see if the same thing happened and it did. After the cycle of opening the bleeder, depressing the clutch, closing the bleeder, and lifting my foot, the clutch again was stuck to the floor and only returned to normal after pumping it by hand again.
Second issue, the new fluid which also only had about 7k miles on it was very dirty and cloudy with a dark black tint to it. After the completion of bleeding the fluid that we bled out was much clearer. Why would the fluid become so dirty after so few miles? Once again, it was a new master, new slave, new monster stage 3 clutch. The lines were ran as to not come close to the header so the fluid would not become hot.
The only other thing I can think of is to readjust the tick master again. Is there a special way to do so? I had a reputable guy on this forum help with the last clutch, master, and slave install and he took care of adjusting the master. After the break in period I had him drive the car to make sure everything felt right and he said the master was still adjusted correctly. Right now, you push the clutch pedal down about 1/4-1/2 inch to get past the "dead" pedal, then you have about another 2-3 inches of travel before the clutch starts to disengage which puts it at about 1/4-1/3 through the full clutch pedal range of motion before it starts to disengage the clutch.
The syncro's could however be getting worn since to my knowledge the transmission itself has never been rebuilt. Wouldn't have been my first guess with the car only having 45k miles but then again I'm no mechanic.
So since I posted originally I have bled the clutch. First issue, when bleeding the clutch, after my dad opened the speed bleeder, I then depressed the clutch, held to the floor, he closed the speed bleeder and then i lifted my foot. The clutch stayed on the ground. The only way the clutch would come back is to lift it up with my leg. But then if you barely tapped the pedal it would fall completely to the floor again.
So, we continued to bleed the clutch by physically lifting the pedal off the floor after the bleeder was closed. After over a pint of fluid bled through the system the clutch would still stick to the floor until you picked it back up. The only way for the clutch to return to normal was to grab the clutch pedal by hand and pump it through its range of motion many times until pressure gradually started to build back up.
Once the pedal felt normal again, we tried to bleed it again to see if the same thing happened and it did. After the cycle of opening the bleeder, depressing the clutch, closing the bleeder, and lifting my foot, the clutch again was stuck to the floor and only returned to normal after pumping it by hand again.
Second issue, the new fluid which also only had about 7k miles on it was very dirty and cloudy with a dark black tint to it. After the completion of bleeding the fluid that we bled out was much clearer. Why would the fluid become so dirty after so few miles? Once again, it was a new master, new slave, new monster stage 3 clutch. The lines were ran as to not come close to the header so the fluid would not become hot.
The only other thing I can think of is to readjust the tick master again. Is there a special way to do so? I had a reputable guy on this forum help with the last clutch, master, and slave install and he took care of adjusting the master. After the break in period I had him drive the car to make sure everything felt right and he said the master was still adjusted correctly. Right now, you push the clutch pedal down about 1/4-1/2 inch to get past the "dead" pedal, then you have about another 2-3 inches of travel before the clutch starts to disengage which puts it at about 1/4-1/3 through the full clutch pedal range of motion before it starts to disengage the clutch.
03-17-2014, 04:10 PM
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Also, if you say the clutch isn't completely disengaging due to a bad master or slave, then why would letting the clutch pedal up slightly (engaging the clutch) cause the car to go into reverse smoothly with slight pressure held on the shifter? Thanks in advance!
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03-17-2014, 04:41 PM
#8
It wouldn't be so bad if one didn't have to drop the transmission to switch the parts out...
03-17-2014, 06:43 PM
#9
So since I posted originally I have bled the clutch. First issue, when bleeding the clutch, after my dad opened the speed bleeder, I then depressed the clutch, held to the floor, he closed the speed bleeder and then i lifted my foot. The clutch stayed on the ground. The only way the clutch would come back is to lift it up with my leg. But then if you barely tapped the pedal it would fall completely to the floor again.
So, we continued to bleed the clutch by physically lifting the pedal off the floor after the bleeder was closed. After over a pint of fluid bled through the system the clutch would still stick to the floor until you picked it back up. The only way for the clutch to return to normal was to grab the clutch pedal by hand and pump it through its range of motion many times until pressure gradually started to build back up.
Once the pedal felt normal again, we tried to bleed it again to see if the same thing happened and it did. After the cycle of opening the bleeder, depressing the clutch, closing the bleeder, and lifting my foot, the clutch again was stuck to the floor and only returned to normal after pumping it by hand again.
Second issue, the new fluid which also only had about 7k miles on it was very dirty and cloudy with a dark black tint to it. After the completion of bleeding the fluid that we bled out was much clearer. Why would the fluid become so dirty after so few miles? Once again, it was a new master, new slave, new monster stage 3 clutch. The lines were ran as to not come close to the header so the fluid would not become hot.
So, we continued to bleed the clutch by physically lifting the pedal off the floor after the bleeder was closed. After over a pint of fluid bled through the system the clutch would still stick to the floor until you picked it back up. The only way for the clutch to return to normal was to grab the clutch pedal by hand and pump it through its range of motion many times until pressure gradually started to build back up.
Once the pedal felt normal again, we tried to bleed it again to see if the same thing happened and it did. After the cycle of opening the bleeder, depressing the clutch, closing the bleeder, and lifting my foot, the clutch again was stuck to the floor and only returned to normal after pumping it by hand again.
Second issue, the new fluid which also only had about 7k miles on it was very dirty and cloudy with a dark black tint to it. After the completion of bleeding the fluid that we bled out was much clearer. Why would the fluid become so dirty after so few miles? Once again, it was a new master, new slave, new monster stage 3 clutch. The lines were ran as to not come close to the header so the fluid would not become hot.
I always recommend bleeding after initial break in as the fluid gets dirtiest from the disc wearing parallel to the pressure plate and flywheel mating surfaces. The more you slip it the more clutch dust is created and with the slave being in the bell housing it inherently gets past the slave and contaminates the fluid, nature of the beast.
Where is the clutch pedal in relation to the brake pedal? Properly working hydraulics and a miss adjusted master cylinder can cause issues as well, feel free to call for faster help. Chris, 817-750-2000
05-17-2014, 12:53 PM
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Sorry I was away from the car for a while and we had some bad weather. The clutch is really close to the same level as the brake, if anything it is just slightly above the brake pedal. Where is the correct position of the clutch in relation to the brake? Thanks
05-20-2014, 08:51 PM
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We adjusted according to the instructions, but just wanted to make sure where we had it sounded correct. Any way to tell if the clutch is being "over disengaged" by having too much travel in the pedal?
05-22-2014, 06:13 AM
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Ok, so if i lower the clutch pedal in relation to the brake pedal (to make sure the clutch isn't "over-disengaging"), how do i tell if i've went too far? The clutch just wont disengage all the way and the car will creep when in gear and revved high on a flat surface? Thanks
-Cody
-Cody
05-22-2014, 10:17 AM
#15
Ok, so if i lower the clutch pedal in relation to the brake pedal (to make sure the clutch isn't "over-disengaging"), how do i tell if i've went too far? The clutch just wont disengage all the way and the car will creep when in gear and revved high on a flat surface? Thanks
-Cody
-Cody
