Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

I was planning on a budget build and just getting the extra short block in my garage rebuilt, but I found a built short block locally from a fellow member and got a great deal on it. Thanks again cycletech. Now I'm trying to decide how I want to build this.




It's a never ran rebuilt zero decked and balanced 355 short block with 4 bolt mains, forged Icon flat top pistons, forged eagle I beam rods, a 10/10 stock crank, has Clevite h rod and main bearings, pistons and bearings have been coated by polydyn. ARP bolts and studs everywhere. Also has double roller timing chain by cloyes. There's a big carb cam in it now, not sure of the specs but I'll sell it after I pull it since I'm staying with EFI.

I was going to to have get a custom grind cam from LE and run it with stock heads and put LE2s on it later, but now I'm having second thoughts since this block is built so stout. The guy said he was building it to spin up to 7k Rpms but keep it NA. I'm not planning on spinning it up that high.

The cam LE recommended is 227/235 .565/.579 110 LSA cam. He said that it will pull to 6300 or so and retain my bottom end power. He said it's similar to the 503 under 2000 but with more hp/tq at 2500 and up. I currently have a 2400 stall, I know it's small but I wasn't planning on buying a new one since it's pretty new. LE said with that cam and stall it should make pretty good power with stock heads.

Whats some recommendations on how to build this? I'm not trying break the bank on this build and it can be a slow build. Wondering if I should wait and do the heads or run it with stock heads now. At least I'll have a good foundation to work with. The car is staying NA. It will be street driven alot with the occasional track visit. Really just a fun street car. I wanted to retain the stock water pump since it only have about 10k on it, but since it already has a double roller should I use it? I know the ED timing sets are $$ or should I just use a stock replacement set? Are LS7 lifters a good choice? I've read that some ppl are having problems with them. What about oil pumps? The guy threw in a new stock replacement with pickup. Should I get the GM white spring to go with it or not worry about it. I know I want High pressure, not high volume. He also threw in a new scat flexplate, and a ATI super damper. Not sure if I should run those or not. I know this is long but I just want to do it right the 1st time.

ahritchie

iTrader: (1)

Personally, I'd save up and get ported heads and do it once....otherwise, you do a lot of work twice and have to pay to get it tuned again; who knows you could probably find a good deal on some used LE heads. What CR are you aiming for? Personally I'd go electric WP since it has the double roller chain; why let it go to waste and not add an extra 5-10hp?

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

Im not sure on the CR. Im also not very educated on CRs. From what I've read so far I want to get the highest CR I can out of an NA motor. Not sure what I'll get out of a zero decked block. Not sure what head gaskets to use. Most posts Ive looked at said to use the impala head gaskets.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

I'd take 100% advantage of that stout bottom end and use every last rpm you can get. Someone can still cut you a nice cam to drive like stock down low but pull like a scalded dog to 7000. Going to need 12:1 or higher to really keep the down low power. Impala head gaskets on a zero deck block gives 0.026 quench, you want 0.035-0.038 so get that thickness head gasket and your combustion chamber and valve reliefs will determine your compression ratio.

A quick calculation shows with-5cc valve reliefs, 0.035 x 4.1 head gasket, 0 deck block and 54cc chambers gets 11.9:1.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

BSmiff

If you cant find some LE heads used I would consider getting some Gen I heads converted to reverse cooling if I were you. Looks like to me a LOT of people are dumping their Gen I stuff to go LS1 so now would be a great time to get some stock valve angle 23* heads that have either already been worked over or are dirt cheap out of the box.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/classifi...php?view=73530
This would be a great purchase(minus intake). Superior to the stock LT1 casting in every way and already ported. I think the LE2 package direct from Lloyd is like $1600. I would rather pay the little extra and have the heads in this link. Convert them to reverse cooling and make sure whatever intake you choose is port matched. Now you got a beast on your hands.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

What are the current cam specs? A lot of times when people say something like a cam is meant for a carb they mean tight lobe separation because the suffer from the ASSumption that the pcm can't handle a tighter LSA.

Also I suspect you misunderstood LE, a 227degree cam in an LT1 I would expect to PEAK near 6300rpm and pull well to probably 6700rpm if the valvetrain is up to snuff.

Depending on what the current cam is I might suggest doing a proper stall instead of the cam swap.

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

I'm planning on staying with LT1 heads. Gen 1 heads sound like a good idea but then I have to look into getting them converted. Then a new intake. I already have an extra set of lt1 heads and an extra intake so I wont have to worry about down time once I do pull my current motor out.
Trying to get the cam specs from the guy that sold it to me but probably wont get them till Mon. I still have another 24 hrs at work so I can't pull the cam myself at the moment. I think the valve train should hold up. I already have comp pro mag 1.6 nsa roller rockers on 7/16 studs with gm guide plates. With a good set of springs and chromoly push rods I think it should hold together in the upper rpms. Was trying to avoid having to get another stall but it looks like thats not gonna happen. Maybe I can find a good deal on one.

bowtienut

iTrader: (1)

I'm bowtienut and I approve this message
Seriously, 96 is right on with the "carb cam" and stall comments.
Just one thing, maybe LE was assuming he'd run that cam with stock heads, in which case it would peak around 6000.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Valid point.

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

I'm gonna find out about the cam thats in there as soon as I can. One thing that sucks about a 72 hr shift, I can't run out to my garage to mess with the car.

Per LE... 227/235 cam would get you 40 HP or so over the stock cam. It will have a decently choppy idle, make TONS of mid range TQ and pull to 6300 RPM or so. LE2 heads will add 40-50 HP over that. If using a Yank SS 3600 stall, I would use a 231/239 cam. It will have a choppier idle and make another 8-10 RWHP at 6500 RPM. The Yank SS 3600 will be fine with either cam but the 227/235 cam will have a lil more power below 2500 RPM, about the same power from 3000-5500 RPM and then the 231/239 cam will start making more power after that.

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

So I pulled the timing chain/gear and the cam today and since comp is closed today I can't get the specs off a custom grind. If anyone has any info let me know. I also have no idea what timing set this is besides it being a double roller. If anyone can identify it I'd really appreciate it. Here's some pics of both with the part #s.

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

Searched the comp cam #s and I came up with these. They are not from the comp website, just #s I pulled off google from cams with similar grind #s.

248/254 108 lsa
gross valve lift .562/.580
valve lift with 1.6 rockers .600/.619

Looks like a little too much for me. I'm not 100% sure these are exact, just all I can get till I can call comp tomorrow.

warriorcustoms

iTrader: (10)

Since Im broke I will shoot this your way!!! There were 2 sets on Dallas CL last month but gone now...
http://jackson.craigslist.org/pts/4396838907.html

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for the link but I'm broke too. This is gonna have to be a slow build.

Just confirmed it from comp. That is a 248/254 cam. If anyone needs a brand new cam or know someone that needs one pm me. I have no use for it

ahritchie

iTrader: (1)

^ That's a big 'un!

Puck

iTrader: (17)

That is an awesome cam!!!

Bit too large for stock cubes if you're stock PCM limited, but would RIP with a decent headed 383. Someone can cook up a nice 10 second 383 with that guy .

warriorcustoms

iTrader: (10)

For a plan thatll keep you happy longer Just keep that 248/254 cam & put it on the shelf!!! For the 355 you have now get the LE 226 cam & find a set of Dart Pro 1 200cc heads with .620 springs... That way when your tired of that combo you can get those heads ported & build a 396 LTx with the bigger cam & put a LiL spray in the mix LoL That 248/254 @ .05 in a 396 with the Dart heads lightly ported & 2.08/1.6 valves will put you in the 600hp @ the crank club later on I found My Darts on allofcraigslist.com for 1030 shipped... Got a sight more in em now LoL Take your time to find deals BUT Quality Parts & youll be way happier in the end!!! I know AFR makes great heads but to have room to grow I like the Darts... A 355 with out of the box 200cc Dart Pro 1s will Run believe that You can always add the Nitrous Outlet plate for a 150 shot on your 355 combo too LoL Speed & Horsepower is Addictive!!! My Uncle used to tell Me... How fast ya wanna go = How much Money ya wanna Spend!!! Theres Lots of knowledge in this Forum!!! When ya get ready for a tune Moehorsepower is the Man ya need off here!!! Hes in the DFW area & tunes Tony Shepherds world record nitrous LTx powered Z28 plus Many others... Hope My ramblin helps a Little LoL

Huntr1117

iTrader: (18)

I'm gonna sell the cam. I need extra $ for parts for my build. I read that the Dart heads do have a lot of meat on them for porting, but out of the box they aren't that great. I could be wrong, but that was in a few posts. I'm sure ported Darts will flow awesome. Instead of buying another set of heads I'll use that $ to have an extra set of stock Lt1 heads sitting in the garage ported. I like bufmatmuslepants idea. "Someone can still cut you a nice cam to drive like stock down low but pull like a scalded dog to 7000" That sounds like a pretty good idea. I think that I'm going to just save a little longer and get a set of LE2s and have LE set me up with a custom cam. Just do it all at once instead of adding heads later. At least I have a good foundation to build on.

HellTeeOne

Find a set of LE3 or AI 200cc heads. They pop up on the used market all the time and the aftermarket castings are seldom worth the extra money.
The quality of the machine work and valvetrain are what makes a good head, not necessarily the casting.

97 6speed z

Huntr1117, would you consider trading the cam you have for a Comp Cam 230/236 @ .050" duration .544"/.555" cam ground on a 112* LSA ........ that I have?

Let me know!