Considering losing intercooler, thoughts?
05-16-2014, 09:53 AM
#1
Considering losing intercooler, thoughts? Combo is a gt91 408" motor on e85 and methanol injection. Car is running 23psi. I assume the pressure drop is in the 8-10 psi range across my eBay intercooler. With that said the turbo is probably making over 30psi and creating a lot of heat. Is the intercooler only cooling the restriction that it creates? Would I be safe to dump it, add another nozzle and turn the controller down so the turbo isn't working as hard? Thoughts? Thanks, Josh.
05-16-2014, 01:26 PM
#4
What is a good a/a interooler for the price? I obviously know there are better out there than the ebay junk, just not a whole lot of info. Is the treadstone decent? Or a waste of money? If no ic I would definitely add another meth nozzle just looking for experts opinions such as yourself and Martins.
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05-17-2014, 02:40 PM
#8
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Last year when I started to pull the wrist pin out of my piston and I bent the stock crank my 3 bar map sensor was pegged. Two 15 nozzles of pure meth I was under 180* on about a 1/8th mile pull. It was around 80 or 90* out side. I have Garrett 88mm
05-18-2014, 02:24 PM
#13
This is exactly the information that I am looking for. I am going to add a second 14gph nozzle and dump the crappy ebay intercooler. Thanks for all that have responded. I have to relocate my battery, but have a clear path on the passenger side to run the charge pipe through. Removing the intercooler will help with my ac condensor since its blocked by the intercooler. It will remove weight and free up alot of space in the nose of the car. Thanks again guys. Look for some results soon. Just went into a contract on a house with a 3 car garage so will have plenty more room for fabbing and working on the beast.
05-19-2014, 10:08 AM
#14
The orange car we built here at our shop is a good example also.
365 c.i., S480 cast wheel, no intercooler. On 23psi we were seeing 158-165 degree temperatures.
The turbo will make 30psi so we expect them to rise a good bit. We're also spraying water/methanol via the Holley HP EFI and we're at 85% of what it can flow. We'll be turning it up some more to see how much further we can get the IAT to drop.
The car went 5.60@125 on 23psi and 15* timing and 3450 lbs. We're really soft on the tune up right now as we're learning the set-up, but at those IAT's, boost and timing the plug is just barely starting to show heat.
365 c.i., S480 cast wheel, no intercooler. On 23psi we were seeing 158-165 degree temperatures.
The turbo will make 30psi so we expect them to rise a good bit. We're also spraying water/methanol via the Holley HP EFI and we're at 85% of what it can flow. We'll be turning it up some more to see how much further we can get the IAT to drop.
The car went 5.60@125 on 23psi and 15* timing and 3450 lbs. We're really soft on the tune up right now as we're learning the set-up, but at those IAT's, boost and timing the plug is just barely starting to show heat.
05-19-2014, 11:24 AM
#15
Feel like I've aid this a 50 times... You can’t look at the drop in AIT caused by aux injection as any sort of valid number. It’s a pointless number and you shouldn’t’ try to tune anything with it.
The temperatures your bulb type thermocouple report back to you once saturated with any kind of alky or water mixture are false. As the charge air rushes by the saturated bulb, meth/water evaporates at a high rate. This gives a false low reading. Your true charge temps are nowhere near this low. The majority of the benefits found with aux injection take place in the combustion chamber. Cooling the intake a tiny bit is a secondary function. If the reported AIT numbers were the actual temperature of your charge air, no one would need intercoolers. The numbers seem too good to be true for a reason… they are! A properly setup Aux inj kit IMO needs to have the majority of the mixture sprayed as close to the CC as possible. Tiny nozzles can then be placed along the piping to help cool the charge slightly.
As said, first take your readings. The peak and hold cheapie tire gauges work great for this. Picked mine up for $2.99 on ebay.
If you find you have significant pressure drop, I’d give it a shot. With the size of your turbo, ethanol base fuel, and meth inj on top I don’t think you’ll be heating the air as much as you think. I’d also suggest putting your AIT sensor upstream of any aux injection.
Also the whole theory of adding nitrous to cool anything doesn't make sense to me. Yes, you may cool the charge slightly, but when nitrous gets in the cylinder and combusts, you are adding a $hit of oxygen to the mix. This will cause higher CC temps and pressures. (not that it won't make more power if added correctly)
Good luck!
The temperatures your bulb type thermocouple report back to you once saturated with any kind of alky or water mixture are false. As the charge air rushes by the saturated bulb, meth/water evaporates at a high rate. This gives a false low reading. Your true charge temps are nowhere near this low. The majority of the benefits found with aux injection take place in the combustion chamber. Cooling the intake a tiny bit is a secondary function. If the reported AIT numbers were the actual temperature of your charge air, no one would need intercoolers. The numbers seem too good to be true for a reason… they are! A properly setup Aux inj kit IMO needs to have the majority of the mixture sprayed as close to the CC as possible. Tiny nozzles can then be placed along the piping to help cool the charge slightly.
As said, first take your readings. The peak and hold cheapie tire gauges work great for this. Picked mine up for $2.99 on ebay.
If you find you have significant pressure drop, I’d give it a shot. With the size of your turbo, ethanol base fuel, and meth inj on top I don’t think you’ll be heating the air as much as you think. I’d also suggest putting your AIT sensor upstream of any aux injection.
Also the whole theory of adding nitrous to cool anything doesn't make sense to me. Yes, you may cool the charge slightly, but when nitrous gets in the cylinder and combusts, you are adding a $hit of oxygen to the mix. This will cause higher CC temps and pressures. (not that it won't make more power if added correctly)
Good luck!
Last edited by Forcefed86; 05-19-2014 at 11:59 AM.
05-20-2014, 11:04 AM
#18
Forcefed is right about the benefits of injecting water. Look at the development and history of it and you'll discover that it was pioneered by the military during WWII I believe. They were using it on the fighters to get more power, but ran into an issue at high altitudes with the water freezing, so they added in the methanol to keep it from freezing.
I have great success with running 50/50.
I have great success with running 50/50.
05-20-2014, 11:49 AM
#19
I have 50/50 on my e85 5.3 now, but I’m not spraying much. 2gph pre turbo and 12gph post. Just cooling the charge a tiny amount and a little extra insurance against knock. Keeps the internals really clean as well.
In my turbo buick days I used aux inj as a crutch for pump fuel. I replaced a lot of my WOT fuel with straight methanol. My 3.8 v6 ran a progressive kit with 30GPH worth of nozzles at 25lbs on 91 octane. I couldn’t run near that boost with 50/50. Same with my 2jzge setup.
Those old WWII water inj articles are a good read! Pretty nutty what those old radial engines put down on straight water in the test cells.
http://www.enginehistory.org/Frank%20WalkerWeb1.pdf
Rice racing guys are doing some nutty stuff with straight water. The ignition systems are like arc welders though.
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm
In my turbo buick days I used aux inj as a crutch for pump fuel. I replaced a lot of my WOT fuel with straight methanol. My 3.8 v6 ran a progressive kit with 30GPH worth of nozzles at 25lbs on 91 octane. I couldn’t run near that boost with 50/50. Same with my 2jzge setup.
Those old WWII water inj articles are a good read! Pretty nutty what those old radial engines put down on straight water in the test cells.
http://www.enginehistory.org/Frank%20WalkerWeb1.pdf
Rice racing guys are doing some nutty stuff with straight water. The ignition systems are like arc welders though.
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm