libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE: It was not the sunshell that broke, which was the pre-teardown assumption, it' is the Input/overrun sprague assembly that busted.
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So I have gone through three stock automatic transmissions under extended warranty, and when that ran out and trans failed I had a built blueprinted 4L60E by TSI Racing which builds transmissions for 8 sec. cars: http://tsiracing.com The car does have a Yank 3200 stall torque converter and basic tune from Speed Inc., so firmer shifts is a part of that package.

Less than a year later after one visit to the strip and one weekend at Road America and plenty of spirited street driving, my "Beast" Sunshell broke and I lost drive and overdrive and only have gears 1 & 2, is there any better sunshell, or what would be recommended to avoid this failure point?

TIA

mrvedit

Many premium builds now use the Sonnax Smart Shell instead of The Beast, but I don't think the Smart Shell is stronger, just more precisely built and it has the advantage of putting no load on the rear planet's inner bearing.
IMHO there has been too much price pressure on The Beast and as a result they are cheaply built, often out of balance, and in your case perhaps with a flaw.

Perhaps the pro builders here will confirm or correct my opinion.

DietCoke

iTrader: (18)

All the big hp builds use the sonnax shell and sleeve now.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Found it, thanks guys, love the forum, always helpful

http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2454

Predator T/A

iTrader: (7)

I have no had one beast failure in 8 years with 60s behind 850 hp corvettes and numerous fullsize trucks pushing 500 to 600 hp. I still use the beast to this day I havnt bought into the smartshell myself just yet...yes it is sleeved which prevents the separation of the splines from the drum but what about the turning of the sun gear in the splines which I have seen numerous times on the stock shell.

oldtimelt1

iTrader: (1)

Anybody believe this craigslist ad? Billet sun shell

3RD/ 4TH AGAIN ??? No excuse trans. . Billet.H.D. 700R4 4L60E 4L65E - $800UP .. It you are not being asked about tire size, gear ratio, intended use or horsepower level when getting a quote they are selling you a 1 trans does all unit!!! Is this for your car,truck,hot rod!!! With over 20 years exp. Master trained NHRA,NTPA competitor and ASE certified transmission transaxle special Extreme heavy duty rebuild with carbon Kevlar composite clutches and band. Special wide band and new drum. 500 boost valve non stick Teflon coated tv valve,new steel pack,new EPC special billet servo and unbreakable billet sun shell

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Don at TSI says the Sonnex Smartshell is made in China/Taiwan, but so are iPhones, and the quality is great, so it all depends on how closely a manufacturer monitors quality!

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

When I personally as Greg at SONNAX when he was at our shop when we were doing the GM HITECH BLACK EDITION 4L60E build he stated the SONNAX shell was made in USA . I do know the beast is indeed made in china it says so right on the box. We have incorporated the Sonnax shell into out Black Edition and Our Level 3 and will be adding it to the level 2 build soon.




Oh and little note . While yes the IPHONE is assembled in CHINA most of the parts are actually made in GERMANY which is also where most of the production money for it goes GERMANY .

hrcslam

Yes.

$800 for a basic rebuilt that you remove and install without torque converter sounds right inline with most shops. I'm sure if you spec one out it'll be comparable to main stream prices.

hrcslam

Not sure on the Sunshell, but maybe a 4L80e is in your future? Or a T56.....

mrvedit

The Sonnax Smart shell has a reinforcement ring around the splines to strengthen that area. This can be seen in the first picture of the tread where I carefully compare the various sun shells:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...art-shell.html

mrvedit

I don't know how much is many in Germany, but the CPU and much of the circuitry is made by Samsung in various locations including Korea and Texas. Obviously Apple is not happy having their key product made by a competitor and the next generation CPU/circuitry will be made by an independent company TMSC in Taiwan.

http://gizmodo.com/5946240/the-iphon...ade-by-samsung

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...en-iphone-ipad

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

This thread keeps getting better thanks esp. Me edit.

TSI is suggesting switching to the upgraded 6 gear planetary front & rear, mine is 4, the newer 4L75E has them. He says it can help keep the spline centered to keep it from wobbling inside the sunshell - whatya think? $400-500 upgrade kit cost, from 4L75E, which is reportedly essentially a slightly upgraded 4L60E... As I recall he said C6 Vettes have them.

mrvedit

First, I think you mean 5-pinion, not 6 pinion (see below). A 4L75E is basically a 4L65E with ISS (Input Speed Sensor).

I noticed your post on my previously linked thread on sun shells where you ask about the newer style reaction carrier shaft. The new reaction carrier shaft is absolutely needed for the 5-pinion planets that GM is now selling. I documented this in details starting around post #12 in this thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...n-planets.html

So, yes the new reaction carrier shaft with its torrington bearings top and bottom, would seem to center the sun shell and other internals better. I think the Sonnax Smart Shell is a nice addition to all that too, more so than The Beast.

Note that Performabuilt just announced their "4L65E Black Edition" rated at 1000HP. Among other premium and billet parts it uses Sonnax Smart Shell.

A key part of their 1000HP 4L65E is the Sonnax Smart Tech input drum. Combined with a billet input shaft it costs about $750, but I have spoken to various performance builders that are successfully using it in 750+HP trucks. It may not solve the 3/4 clutch problems once and for all, but solves the problems with broken snap rings and coning, and has room for one more friction. It includes the Sonnax reinforcement ring for the area around the input shaft.

BTW - There is a 6-pinion planet (I have it); it is an expensive custom billet part that gives provides closer gear ratios. 1st gear is 2.84 instead of 3.06; 2nd is 1.57 instead of 1.63.

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

mrvedit, How do you like the difference in the new ratio's with the custom 6 pinion planetary?

mrvedit

I make too many changes (at once) to give you track comparison numbers. After my MT Drag radials wore out two years ago I tried Nitto NT555R-17 (26" tall) and always had traction problems, therefore the lower 2.84 was an advantage. Last month I tried brand new MT Drags (28" tall) and since they hooked perfectly, the higher 3.06 might have been better. (I have a 3.42 rear and 3600 stall).
Like everything at the track, the best trans ratios depend upon manner factors - rear ratio, engine power, torque curve, stall speed, tire size, tire type, overall traction, etc.

I bought the 6-pinion planet, like everything else I discuss here, to experiment and share my experiences.

1FastBrick

iTrader: (16)

I am not overly concerned with track numbers, more about how they drive over all.

mrvedit

You would need a pretty well calibrated butt to feel a 10% difference in gear ratios. I certainly don't. I do think the $1200 can be spent better elsewhere.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Update: oops, I did mean the five gear planetary from GM...

So who makes this custom billet part you refer to?

mrvedit

Sorry if I have my doubts, but I have neither seen nor heard of an OEM 6-pinion planetary.
I don't know who makes the billet close-ratio 6-pinion planetary, but PATC and FLT sell it. I bought mine from a member here.