View Full Version : Headlights NOT on


mySStery_machine
07-12-2004, 06:43 AM
Have a MAJOR problem here, my headlights will not come on automatically OR manually. Fogs work just fine but the headlights make a static/cracking type noise through the actual light switch to the left of the column. I think maybe since there has been so much humidity in this area and I have had the A/C crankin' that maybe condensation has built up and dripped to cause the problem inside. All fuses otherwise are good but the system periodically spikes in conjunction with the crackling noise. Until this is figured out I cannot do any type of night driving past about 7...HELP. :cheers: :chug:

mySStery_machine
07-12-2004, 01:56 PM
Ttt...please!!!!!!

TA TED
07-12-2004, 02:34 PM
Replace the ambient light sensor with a straight piece of wire (by defroster vent). I doubt that's it, but it's quick and easy. Better order yourself a headlight switch module. Most likely it's failed internally. Get a schematic and jumper the 12v supply at the switch connector to the (I believe) yellow headlight wire. This will prove if the problem was within the switch.

mySStery_machine
07-13-2004, 07:10 AM
Got a new headlight switch module and it smoked the whole thing , ahhh the smell of burning electronics. So now I'm really concerned since I still have no headlights, luckily I still have parking andfog lights though. HELP ME RHONDA!!!! (or anyone else for that matter that could help)

TA TED
07-13-2004, 07:53 AM
Sounds like a partial short to ground on the post switch side of the circuit. I don't have the schematic for the LS1's, but if someone does I could tshoot via internet.

mySStery_machine
07-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Thanks I will see what I can find here or go out and buy a Haynes or Chilton's

WhiteBird00
07-16-2004, 08:41 AM
Thanks I will see what I can find here or go out and buy a Haynes or Chilton's

Here is the Camaro Headlight & DRL schematic...

http://www.fl1v.org/ls1/camaroheadlights.gif

mySStery_machine
07-19-2004, 08:52 AM
Thanks a lot for the diagram...now where to start? Why did the new module burn I wonder and there was a clicking/sizzling sound earlier when the headlights were trying to go on. It never happened with the parking lights though, now that clicking/sizzling sound has gone away though...I wonder.

WhiteBird00
07-19-2004, 09:01 AM
Well, do the highbeams work? If so, then you can eliminate the headlight switch and the high beam side of the system from the dimmer switch forward as being the source of the problem. That might narrow it down somewhat.

mySStery_machine
07-19-2004, 09:53 AM
Neither the headlights or the high beams work. So that would lead me to believe that it is tied in somehow to the dimmer switch, but hey what do I know. I'm here looking for the answers, so obviously I don't know much. :lol:

mySStery_machine
07-19-2004, 04:02 PM
I do believe after all is said and done that it may be the headlight relay switch. We shall see...

mySStery_machine
07-23-2004, 09:09 AM
Still have yet to get around to this, but in the meantime...any ideas from anyone?

ely
07-25-2004, 04:55 PM
i have a problem whith my car alarm. i have a 98 trans am an every time i arm the alarm
the head light gou up and down can anyone help. thank you

WhiteBird00
07-25-2004, 06:36 PM
i have a problem whith my car alarm. i have a 98 trans am an every time i arm the alarm
the head light gou up and down can anyone help. thank you

This is caused by a stripped gear in the headlight motor. The alarm system is designed to make sure the the headlights are closed when it is set but it can't tell because the gear is stripped so the resistance isn't right. So, it raises and lowers the headlights to make sure they're closed.

You have three choices: you can get a new headlight motor, you can open up the motor and rotate the gear 180 degrees so the stripped side isn't used, or you can open up the motor and put in a new metal gear to replace the factory plastic one. Putting in a metal gear is the only way you'll be sure that it won't happen again but rotating the existing plastic gear doesn't cost anything except your time.

ely
07-26-2004, 09:59 PM
hy thank you for you help i will do that. :)

Wildman
07-26-2004, 10:30 PM
Still have yet to get around to this, but in the meantime...any ideas from anyone? Do you have a Volt/Ohm meter available?
If so,
1)disconnect the battery
2)measure dc volatge from the Yellow wire to ground (just to make sure there isn't any voltage there after the battery has been disconnected).
3)measure resistance (ohms) from Yellow wire to ground, almost any reading is good, other than open (infinate), or short (0 ohms).
4)if you read a short, disconnect the low beam relay and measure. That will tell you if the relay is shorted out.

Start from there.
Hope that helps you.
Paul

Wildman
07-26-2004, 10:31 PM
Also, I am really suprised you are not blowing fuses.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 07:07 AM
As I was digging around last night I decided to go behind the stereo to get to the relay swith. Does anyone know the part number for the relay? I heard that the relay was next to the DRL control relay box. A diagram and part number would be infinately helpful in my quest here. Thanks in advance :cheers:

TA TED
07-27-2004, 09:33 AM
The relays you're talking about are in the DRL module behind the radio. Remove it, pop off the cover and inspect the circuit board.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 09:42 AM
I just got off the phone with Chevy and they are saying the module that I found last night behind the stereo is the DRL/headlight module. They also informed me that to the right of this behind the glove box area is the three relays that I need to get to. The relay in the middle is the winner according to them...this sound right to all people? The other relays they said are sensors for theft and something else ( I can't remember).

WhiteBird00
07-27-2004, 10:03 AM
I just got off the phone with Chevy and they are saying the module that I found last night behind the stereo is the DRL/headlight module. They also informed me that to the right of this behind the glove box area is the three relays that I need to get to. The relay in the middle is the winner according to them...this sound right to all people? The other relays they said are sensors for theft and something else ( I can't remember).

No, as you can see from the diagram, the headlamp and parking lamp relays are internal to the DRL module (broken line surrounding the relays in the diagram). Checking the service manual component locator page shows a theft deterrent relay behind the dash but no separate light relays.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 10:31 AM
So then I need to open that module I found last night and just replace that one relay? Thanks for the help WhiteBird got a copy you can shoot me of the other stuff you were looking at?

TA TED
07-27-2004, 10:32 AM
No, as you can see from the diagram, the headlamp and parking lamp relays are internal to the DRL module (broken line surrounding the relays in the diagram). Checking the service manual component locator page shows a theft deterrent relay behind the dash but no separate light relays.


He's right, the starter disable relay is located to the right of the glovebox opening above the BCM, however, no headlight relays there.

WhiteBird00
07-27-2004, 10:42 AM
So then I need to open that module I found last night and just replace that one relay? Thanks for the help WhiteBird got a copy you can shoot me of the other stuff you were looking at?

Well, you can open up the DRL module and see if the relay is replaceable. I'm sure that GM doesn't sell it separately (they'll sell you the whole module) but you might find a generic pc-board relay that will work.

Sorry, the manual is in web page format so it would be very difficult to post. You can get the service manual CDs on ebay for around $40. They cover all GM models from 98-up as well as service bulletins and other info for earlier models.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 11:30 AM
See the part numbers I got off of the module I found last night was 10407669 and that comes back via GM as a DRL/headlight module. The parts section today came back as 12177233 being the actual relay. Any confirmation? DRL module is over $100 and relay is about $30.

WhiteBird00
07-27-2004, 11:40 AM
My parts list shows 10407669 as the correct number for the DRL module. However, 12177233 is listed as the rear hatch release relay. It is mounted near the DRL module next to the theft deterrent relay (which is part number 12103601). The parts list doesn't show any internal parts of the DRL module being sold separately - just the module as an assembly.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 11:53 AM
OK so then the whole thing has to go then I guess...dammit! So one relay inside is good for parking and power sending to fogs...and one is crap. The parking dimming as headlights would be going on is a good thing then I would guess correct? This shows that at least SOME of it is working.

WhiteBird00
07-27-2004, 11:58 AM
Yes, there are two internal relays - one for headlights and the other for parking lights. The fog lights use a different relay which is under the hood in junction box #1. The front lights dimming is proper operation - they should be on full bright as daytime running lights and then dim to running/parking lights when the headlights are turned on.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 01:31 PM
OK so my original assessment from two weeks ago was correct, it needing a new relay now I need to locate the part from a salvage yard so it won't cost so damn much...maybe ebay. Thank you for all the help. Hopefully I will have one in so I can get to the track Thurs, it's been killing me not able to leave past dark in my car, especially since we moved to within 5 mins of the local track and what sweet music every Thurs and Sat.

mySStery_machine
07-27-2004, 02:12 PM
Just found it for only $25 over at a salvage yard, the guy needed to know where to find it and then said 'Uhh $25 sound good?' Guess I found a winner, it's from a 99 too so not too bad there.

mySStery_machine
08-01-2004, 09:01 AM
WHITEBIRD or anyone electronic savvy I have changed out the DRL module and still no headlights are working. Could it be the relay in the parking brake area? I was thinking it may be somehow linked since it I was using the bypass to get the original problem of headlights coming on instead of the DRLs, and then just turning the headlights on when needed at night.

WhiteBird00
08-02-2004, 09:42 AM
OK, lets start with some testing to see if we can narrow down the source. Best place to start is at the headlight switch. You can get at the connections by removing the trim plate and the two bolts that hold the switch in place, then pulling the switch out of the dash.

First, check that you have 12V at both red wires. One is the 12V battery feed which comes from a fusible link which is under the hood on the left inner fender. The other is the output to the DRL module. Both should show 12V+ at all times. If neither does then check the fusible link. If one does but the other doesn't then replace the switch. (Note: you will also have 12V+ at the orange wire but that is the feed for the parking/running/fog lamps and you said that they still work.)

Now that we've established power, let's check output. Connect a test light from the yellow wire to a ground. With the switch OFF or in the PARK position there should be no power on the yellow wire. When you move the switch to the HEADLIGHT position the yellow wire should have power. If not, replace the switch. Another way would be to place a jumper wire between the red power supply and the yellow output wire to see if bypassing the switch gets the lights working. Just be careful because that would be a high-current connection.

The next step is to test the headlight dimmer switch. You will find a 3-pin connector near the bottom of the steering column on the left side that has yellow, tan and light green wires. First check that the yellow wire has power when the headlight switch is on. If not, find where the yellow wire is broken between the headlight switch and the dimmer switch. Then check that the tan wire has power in the low beam position and the light green wire has power in the high beam position. If not, replace the dimmer switch.

From there, the wires just run through the big grommet on the left side of the firewall to the headlights and then to separate left and right grounds. I am assuming that it's unlikely that all the bulbs would have burned out at once or that both side ground connections would go bad at the same time. If everything else checks out, check for power on the tan (low beam) and light green (high beam) wires at the headlights then trace back to find any break in the wires.

mySStery_machine
08-05-2004, 12:30 PM
This really helped a lot Whitebird the only thing that I cannot figure out and nor can the electronics guru I have helping me is, where the hell is this fusable link you speak of? I have been under the hood and looking all over but can't find what you are talking about. I see all the connections over behing the battery towards the ECM but see nothing like I think you may be talking about. Another type of schematic or really copious directions would be great. :cheers:

WhiteBird00
08-05-2004, 12:45 PM
According to the service manual, the fusible links (there are two) are located "Forward of the left front wheelhouse, behind the underhood electrical center #2". They are black in color and are both connected to a heavy gauge red wire from the "Engine Wiring Harness Junction Block #1" at one end. The other ends both are connected to smaller red wires - one goes to the headlight switch and the other goes to the BCM.

I hope this helps because the manual doesn't have any pictures or diagrams of these fusible links that I could post.

mySStery_machine
08-06-2004, 07:15 AM
OK so that would mean left as in driver side, I wasn't sure if it was left looking at the car or left once in the car. Those must be the 'open' links under the lid in the engine fuse area. Does this sound about right?

WhiteBird00
08-06-2004, 08:32 AM
Yes, parts and service manuals always refer to left and right from the driver's position. There are two electrical junction boxes on the left (driver's side) fender well. There are three fusible links bundled together below the heavy cable that attaches to the red covered stud on the rearward box. They are short pieces of wire with black insulation that has a broken white line running along them.

mySStery_machine
08-06-2004, 04:46 PM
OK so I went along and checked all output numbers and this is what I came up with. I have power at port J behind the switch but not at G. The yellow has no power EVER either at the switch or the 3 point juncture. Remember now that when I bought a new switch al while ago that it just smoked out and for the most part died. I luckily did that at the salvage yard and just told them sorry but apparently that wasnt what I needed. I am no longer getting the 4th of July sparks though from bridging directly from J to the yellow so maybe a new switch is in order now? There is another yard in the area that has one available. What say you?

WhiteBird00
08-07-2004, 03:18 PM
Power at pin J would mean that the fusible link is OK. That's your main power supply to the switch. If you have no output power at pin G (DRL module output) then the switch itself is fried. There appears to be some kind of internal fuse or fusible link inside the switch (according to the diagram) but it doesn't seem to be replaceable according to the manual. That internal fuse would also keep power from reaching pin E (the yellow wire feeding the lights).

Replacing the switch will be necessary but I'm concerned that whatever caused it to burn up in the first place may still be a problem. Try checking the wires at both E and G with a meter for any short to ground that might have caused the original problem.

mySStery_machine
08-07-2004, 03:56 PM
Hey Whitebird do you have PayPal? I need to sent you some $$$ so I can at least buy you a beer for all the help. I was thinking a grounding prob over near the new battery I put in could be a problem, might it be a ground near the handbrake since I used that to bypass the orig prob for so long? Just things I think about while sitting around at night (since I can go out) and drinking. :cheers: :chug:

As a side note how would I be checking exactly for this bad ground? The stupid gene has stuck me down once again.

OK yellow E is checking in with a whopping 0.0 and the 2nd red G is coming in with a huge 0.09, that's about it lead the way. Oh and grounds at the battery are good into the harness.

WhiteBird00
08-07-2004, 09:09 PM
What you want to look for is either the E or G pins being shorted to ground someplace (worn insulation on the wire or whatever). You do this with a multimeter set to ohms. Touch the red meter probe to the switch pin and the black to a known good ground like a bolt under the dash. The meter should not show any number close to zero. The reading will change somewhat because the circuits are connected indirectly to ground but it shouldn't be close to zero (for example, the yellow wire goes through the headlight bulb to ground so the filament prvides resistance). If it does show zero then you'll have to follow that wire until you find where it's grounding out.

Thanks for the offer but I couldn't take money from someone who also lives in Jacksonville (even if in another state). ;)

mySStery_machine
08-08-2004, 07:23 PM
Does the schematic show where those wires go to? If they go down to the handbrake I might start there since it was being used for about 3 weeks to bypass the DRL stuff. I have no idea, just trying NOT to have to pull all the wiring apart to get to the source of the problem.

Also was the clicking/crackling and surging of power I had earlier all part of the same problem of a possible bad ground? That would make sense to me, but so would a faulty switch.

WhiteBird00
08-09-2004, 09:02 AM
No, the only headlight-related wire that goes to the parking brake is a light blue wire from the DRL module that prevents the DRLs and automatic headlights from coming on while the parking brake is engaged. The parking brake switch has only the one input wire that grounds through the switch casing when the parking brake is engaged. That means that, even if it got shorted, it wouldn't cause any damage and would only prevent automatic operation - the lights would still work using the headlight switch.

It is quite possible (even likely) that a short to ground on one of the headlight switch output wires would cause crackling or sizzling noises.

BTW, what happens when you use a jumper to connect pin J (battery power) to pin E (headlight output). Do the lights go on? Or does the jumper get hot like it's feeding a short? That might give you some indication of where the problem lies. Just be careful.

mySStery_machine
08-09-2004, 09:37 AM
No lights came on but it did make a 4th of July show the first time I tried that about 2 weeks ago. This time nothing happened but the heat sink gets REALLY hot. That's about it, so it's one of those wires that's grounding out down the line? I guess I will start pulling tape later today.

mySStery_machine
08-09-2004, 01:20 PM
OK E is running a Ohm of 1.0 and then G and J are both running 0.0. What do you think about all of this.

WhiteBird00
08-09-2004, 04:31 PM
Uh, J can't be showing zero - that's the battery feed wire. Your whole car would be melting if you could read 0 ohms to ground on a hot wire.

If the wire on the E pin is showing 0 ohms to ground then that is probably the wire that is shorting out. First, unplug both headlights and then test again to see if you still have a short to ground on that wire. If so, you will need to trace it to where it's shorting. Most likely places are where the wire goes through the dash and any other place where it might have rubbed against some metal that wore through the insulation.

mySStery_machine
08-09-2004, 08:36 PM
Well I went ahead and disconnected the lights and got a ohm rating of about 178 from both E and G but still nada out of J. I'm really confused and think it may be a Chevy repair day if the new headlight switch burns out once I put it in. Any more input? The ohms dropped a bit after hooking up the brights (I think, it's been so long) but still well over the 0.0, I do believe it spiked at one time to the 330 range. :confused:

WhiteBird00
08-09-2004, 09:49 PM
Try unplugging the wires from the switch as well as from the headlights and then check the resistance. There should be infinite resistance on the yellow wire unless there is a short in it someplace.

mySStery_machine
08-10-2004, 07:38 AM
If that is the case then the wires are good and there is just a problem with the switch? Again you are the man...:hail:

WhiteBird00
08-10-2004, 07:53 AM
Well, you should probably do the same thing with the red wire on pin G - disconnect it from the switch and also from the DRL module and then check to make sure that there is infinite resistance to ground. If both wires check out OK then you know there isn't a short in them.

It's still possible that the DRL module itself is bad so you might want to leave it disconnected when you first plug in the new switch. If that works but they quit when you plug in the DRL module then you'll know that it is the culprit.

mySStery_machine
08-10-2004, 08:05 AM
I actually just disconnected the lights from the actual light and left the DRL module intact to get that reading on the yellow wire on pin E. I really don't want to take that risk and smoke another switch either if it is the DRL and that would happen if it worked w/out and then when I plugged in the DRL module after correct?

mySStery_machine
08-11-2004, 03:21 PM
WhiteBird did you fall off the map? I was waiting for your input on some issues before proceeding... :cheers:

WhiteBird00
08-11-2004, 04:02 PM
Sorry, somehow I didn't get an email saying there were new postings.

Your're right about the DRL module - if it was the original problem then plugging it in could fry another switch. But what other choice do you have besides getting another module?

If you plug the headlights in and disconnect the wiring plug from the back of the headlight switch, then jumper the red 12V wire to the yellow headlight wire do the lights come on? If so, you are guaranteed to have lights after putting in a new switch. But it still leaves the possibility of the DRL module being the problem that fried the switch in the first place. Maybe you could find a cheap DRL module at a junk yard and just replace it to be safe. Unfortunately, it is solid state and the manual says there is no way to test it other than swapping it out.

mySStery_machine
08-11-2004, 04:20 PM
I have the cheapy DRL mod in there right now and tried the jumper WITH the switch still intact (from the rear) and nothing. Last time I tried the jumper trick it was the 4th o' Julycelebration BUT with the old DRL module. I guess tonight will be jumper w/out swtch and see if it lives. Will that be about right? Thanks!

WhiteBird00
08-11-2004, 05:06 PM
There are two DRL mods - disable DRLs and disable auto-headlights. Which did you do?

Try the jumper trick first with the both the headlight switch and the DRL module unplugged. If you get lights then try the new headlight switch but leave the DRL module unplugged - the lights should work. Then you've got to decide if you want to risk plugging in the DRL module and trying again. If you leave it unplugged you won't have turn signals.

You can eliminate the DRL module from operating the headlights or parking lights (and eliminate the possibility of it shorting out the lights) but still leave it functional for everything else. Just disconnect and tape up the red wire from pin D and the yellow from pin F at the DRL module black connector.

mySStery_machine
08-11-2004, 06:03 PM
I meant DRL mod as in module not as in 4 light mod sorry. But hey I got home helped my kid with some quick 4th grade stuff and went outside to try the jumper directly at the source. The outcome...HEADLIGHTS!!!!!! I guess the bad DRL module burned up the original switch somehow and then fried the secondary as well, tomorrow I'm picking up a new one and getting the front right tire replaced and getting my ass to the track!!!!!!! :hail: :burn:

WhiteBird00
08-12-2004, 08:10 AM
You didn't say that you needed the front tire replaced. I'll bet that's been causing the headlight problem all along. :rotflmao:

mySStery_machine
08-12-2004, 08:40 AM
DAMN DAMN DAMN next time I will know better!!!! Thanks again I owe you a couple of rounds if you ever make it to this Jacksonville. :cheers: :chug:

nemss1
02-05-2009, 08:10 AM
will these diagrams apply for the whole lighting system on a 00 camaro?

WhiteBird00
02-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Yes, all 98-02 Camaros have the same wiring.

KY_TA
05-20-2009, 08:32 AM
Question for WhiteBird00.

I have a 98 TA, and looking at the wiring diagram, do the low beam lights go off when the high beam lights are on?
This is from looking at the Headlamp Dimmer Switch C(low beams), A(high beams), and B being feed by C1-F on DRL or E on Headlamp Switch.

WhiteBird00
05-20-2009, 08:46 AM
Question for WhiteBird00.

I have a 98 TA, and looking at the wiring diagram, do the low beam lights go off when the high beam lights are on?
This is from looking at the Headlamp Dimmer Switch C(low beams), A(high beams), and B being feed by C1-F on DRL or E on Headlamp Switch.No, on Firebirds the low beam headlights remain on when the high beams are selected. Camaros are wired so that the low beams go off when the high beams are selected but it's easy to modify them to work like a Firebird.

KY_TA
05-20-2009, 09:16 AM
No, on Firebirds the low beam headlights remain on when the high beams are selected. Camaros are wired so that the low beams go off when the high beams are selected but it's easy to modify them to work like a Firebird.

I do not think I have a tan wire from C(low beams) on Headlamp Dimmer Switch to low beam lights.
(I need to verify this.)
I am burning up the fuse link in the Headlamp Switch.
I have unplugged the Headlamp Switch and jumped E and J. All lights work fine.
With the high beams on, I in plug the Headlamp Dimmer Switch. This turns off the high beams but the low beams stay on. I donor see how this can be with the wiring diagram on post. (Post diagram is the same as the one in my service manual.)

If I jumper Headlamp Switch E and J. with a 15amp fuse, and high beams on it blows the fuse. But with a 20amp fuse it holds. So I am pulling between 15 and 20amp.
What is the fuse link in the Headlamp Switch rated at?
And where are the low beams being feed from?