70Stang

iTrader: (2)

Ok so I have a bunch of questions.

I have a 228R cam from TSP. I only have the cam.

What else do I need to make this cam work?

The motor is STOCK.
Do I NEED to run dual springs? Do I NEED new seats and retainers?
I would like to do the LEAST possible amout, but not have the motor fall apart in 10miles..

Will I be able to spray a 125 shot on this cam?
What supporting mods will I need?

I have heard that a 112LSA is a little small for nitrous. Is this true on such a 'small' shot? Will I be ok??

Any other things that I missed, or haven't thought of would be awesome to know!


Thanks guys!

AdamSS

iTrader: (3)

YES, YES, and YES - You will need to run dual springs. Patiot gold, or Crane spring.
Also, picking up a stronger pushrods would be a good idea...

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

You only need to run 918 springs with that cam, you can use stock retainers. Hardened pushrods are a good idea but not a must, I would do them. You can spray that cam just fine.

70Stang

iTrader: (2)

MustangEater, that is what I hoped to hear!

Lucian

iTrader: (1)

I would definately look into getting new pushrods. I have many friends that have bent rods from N2O alone. And yes to all the others as well. IMO: it is better to spend a little money now for insurance that you likely wont have to spend alot of money later

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

I agree the extra $75 in pushrods from Trick Flow or comp are a good insurance, but not a 100% must, maybe only a 97.89% must lol

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

918s will get you by, but I would prefer Patriot doubles if your going to put alot of miles on it. I agree that pushrods are pretty important.

Kevin 276

Like Jason said...all of the things you asked do I need I would do. A little insurance in my mind goes along way and if you are spraying and driving on a regular basis, why not spend just a little extra $$$ By the way, I have that same cam and it performs well.

Good Luck

AgFormula02

iTrader: (13)

The use of nitrous has nothing to do with the pushrod being bent.
The stock pushrods are fine, and some consider them to be a safety item on a 6 speed car. In a valve float situation, I'd rather bend a pushrod, than a valve. You do have to worry about deflection, as well as the pressure of the pushrod. If your spring is going to have a lot of pressure, and the cam is goign to be very agressive, you sometimes do not have a choice.
If you are an auto, which means less chance for over rev, then thunder racing one piece pushrods are hard to beat. Good price for what you get.

RedHardSupra

iTrader: (1)

Since the new (known) record for TR224 is 480rwhp, and you have a bigger cam AND then spray it, I'd say you might wanna look into a fuel system. Think about it: if you're doing 400+rwhp and then you spray it, what would you guess will happen when you spray? Lots of super cold air, out of fuel, 17:1 AFR @ 6000rpm... oh, I see holes in pistons in your future!

70Stang

iTrader: (2)

RedHard, I doubt I will see anywhere near 480RWHP on this cam...I am looking for maybe 360ish...I still have stock heads/intake/tb/manifolds/etc...

I am going to do a new FuelPump, Springs, Seats, Pushrods and Timing Chain...thanks for all the info guys!!

ss1le02

iTrader: (4)

That's what happened to me 394rwhp with a 100 shot wrecked the piston land on #8 piston along with the sleeve and block. Get the Bosch #36lb injectors with a tune.

RedHardSupra

iTrader: (1)

HA! Finally someone that said the truth instead of bullshitting or repeating what they heard/read, thank you for bringing it up!

The fact that you can go above 400rwhp on stock injectors, does not mean you can do it safely and all the way to the redline. Nitrous just pushes it way beyond the safe range. Also, if your power peaks at 5500rpm, and you rev to 6600, then with some big injectors and a good tune, you should be able to at least hold, if not make more power all the way to the redline.

Getting power out of rpms can be great, at the last NvsS one of the sponsor shop cars spun to like 8200rpm. That's 'free' power, as long as you can make some torque in that range, and because it's a function of rpm, you can make some mad power. It will not happen on stock injectors though. They do not flow enough to sustain power up to such stratosferic rpms. That's how these guys run low 10s on stock displacement. Mad compression, and mad rpms. That's just the laws of physics, and you cannot cheat them. Eventually though, you gotta burn petrol, and enough of it _throughout the entire rev range_ to make it safe and healthy.

Supra's come with big 6x550cc injectors (about 54lb/hr) and some sick bastard decided to spray 150shot on his already strained stock setup(about 480rwhp at like 22 or 24psi IIRC). He got over 610rwhp (stock turbos, stock fuel, upped boost) but eventually he ran out of fuel, and went lean. Lean under boost==big boom bang.

Running out of fuel just by a little (bad tune) can be catastrophic, so imagine what happens when you actually run out of injectors, that's not gonna be some little shortcoming, that's gonna be an automotive equivalent of a ****-block.

If you're putting a big cam, don't spray, if you're spraying, don't put a big cam in. My stock '99 a4 went over 120mph on spray + stock cam/lid/exhaust/maf tuned for n2o.
If you're doing both, get injectors/rail/fuel pumps, I don't remember exactly what you run out of first in ls1, check out the fueling/injection forum.

Why are you putting a big cam in, if you're planning to have only 360rwhp? you can get 360hp many other ways, without all the drawbacks of a big cam. someone just went 372rwhp on z06 cam, and another guy went almost 400rwhp on a 216/220 cam. LS1 forums make people way too 'cam happy.' Think, don't duplicate. And listen to guys who tell you what have failed, they usually don't lie, unlike all the other keyboard warriors coming up with automotive science-fiction.

70Stang

iTrader: (2)

I think it will be fine. We will see...

Oh and by the way, I made 416rwhp on the spray, and i didn't lean out anything...I know a whole bunch of people with big cams/spray that don't blow motors.

70Stang

iTrader: (2)

Oh and RedHard, my 100shot is a WET KIT, so injectors have nothing to do with it....

goober35

iTrader: (1)

What kinda wet kit are u useing. Does it draw the fuel from the rail or do you have a sepret fuel systom. I bet you are pulling from the rail witch means with the spray and the cam you might lean out. I would deffently get the pump.

70Stang

iTrader: (2)

I plan on getting a pump...But I don't need injectors/rails/etc...

goober35

iTrader: (1)

What injectors do you have. And no i dont think you need a rail.

RedHardSupra

iTrader: (1)

if all you're making is 416 on spray (is that with the new cam? i hope not), then you should be fine. but if you're closer to 400 and then plan to spray another 100+ on it, then you're in trouble. somewhere around 450 seems to be the magic number for stock injectors, but I'd stay on the safe side of things. Injectors are cheap, and with nitrous, it is a damn good insurance. I, personally, wouldn't go past 400 without injectors, but that's because I'm a paranoid freak that hates to wrench on broken things.

ss1le02 had the best example, he's a proof of my whole rant here.

does anyone with around 400rwhp have autotap/hptuners? i'd like to see injector duty numbers past 5000rpm on such cars, I bet you they're starting to push it close to the limit.

MyLS1Hauls

iTrader: (2)

I'm running 95% duty cycle at 6500 rpm with my stock 26.6lbers and roughly 400 rwhp. I wouldnt exactly say its a dangerous situation N/A. I'd never do it on nitrous though. At 5000 they were still in the safe zone.