LEATHL_WS6

Curious. I have a TSP 231 237 cam with a set of PP 5.3 heads. They have been milled .020 for a final CR of around 11:1. I had it on the dyno tonight and it wouldn't make power and no knok at 29 degrees so we bumped it to 32 degrees. It made the exact same power and still no knock. So then we dropped it to 26 degrees. It made the excat same power and the afr actually went a little lean instead of going rich.

What gives?

Another weird thing is while logging data with EFI Live. When Igo WOT EFI Live stutters and wont capture all the data sometimes it actually locks up for a couple of seconds then it pick back up. It has done this with 2 different laptops.

Any ideas guys. this is driving me crazy I have been messing with the thing for 2 years now and I'm going crazy.

Thanks Rob

NoGo

iTrader: (2)

Are you guys logging on the dyno what your actual WOT timing is?

And how much down on power are we talking?

LEATHL_WS6

Oh yea I logged every run. The numbers I listed are actual data from the runs. But as I mentioned it was weird because EFI Live was like stumbling it wasn't recording all the data. It would run reall slow then stop for a second then pick back up. It doesn't do that on the street. Maybe because it is coming up to rpm so much faster. I don't know I think there is something wrong with my computer.

Power is in the 390's I would think I should at least see 420 to 430 with my setup. It has all boltons. FLP Longtubes, Ported TB Stock MAF, LS6 Intake, 30lb injectors, PP 5.3 Heads Milled .020 for 11;1 CR, TSP 231 237 cam. I know plenty of people who have made 440 to 450 with similar setups. I would just be happy with 430 or so.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

I think I have that much in mine and I made 440 RWHP with a nasty cam and 11:1 in the FL summer.

gomer

iTrader: (13)

I run 31* on my setup without any knock retard.. just A'tapped it yesterday on the street and it was clean thru 4th gear on 93 octane and 116* IAT's.

CHRISPY

I actually made more power at 23-24 degrees WOT timing than higher with 11.8:1

The 4 inch stroke is a factor in that though.

If you are actually going leaner at lower timing you might pick up power richening up the car.

LEATHL_WS6

OK seems some people are running that kind of timing. I guess my next question is why doesnt my power change going from 32 deg to 26 deg? I mean thats a huge change. You would think there would be some kind of power change there. I mean it was dead on 394 both pulls.

As for the AFR we were close it was 12.7 and 12.5. Shouldn't pulling that much timing have a bigger effect on the AFR?

I'm just at a loss here. I obviously should be making more power. Seems when ever I get on the dyno the car becomes Christine. I have pulled 10% fuel from PE vs RPM table and there was no change at all in AFR. Seems the car is doing what it wants and not what I tell it to do.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

What are your Ltrims at WOT

-=Merlin=-

FWIW

I friend of mine went from 28 to 32 deg without a much of a change in power output.

LEATHL_WS6

)

0 at WOT

Ltrims are -6 to -9 almost everywhere and always got 0 at WOT. The only place i'm ever pos is at idle.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

11:1 + 32 degrees of timing might knock at the peak of summer, but at least you were running 12.5:1 AF as opposed to 13:1.

There are a lot of reasons why a car might not dyno as high as others, best thing to do is to find other setups and look at what you lack or look at for the culprit.

Here in Chicago, 440rwhp with a stock bottom end is rare if it's actually even been done. 425rwhp has been done a number of times.

LEATHL_WS6

John

I have looked at plenty and to be honest I don't think I lack. I'll change that. I do lack for 440 to 450rwhp. I have no Electric Water Pump and no Under drive pulley. The setup I'm running should make 390 untuned.

Short block is an ARE Street Elminator. Ross forged Pistons with 0 deck height. I made 417 last year with a 224 228 cam shaft and a set of heads that flowed 280 and only had 10.5:1 at best was probably more like 10.3:1. This year 231 237 cam a set of 5.3 heads that I saw flow 301 at 600 lift. They have been milled .020 for close to 11:1 CR (the pistons have 3cc valve reliefs) Everything else is there and the same as last year, all boltons. I have tried 2 different MAF's.

No matter what I do I can't get the AFR to go above 12.7. I pulled 10% fuel from PE vs RPM and the AFR did not move. Somethnig has to be wrong somewhere. I just wish I could find it.

I ordered a new computer it will be in tomorrow. So I'm going to try that.

Thanks Guys keep the ideas coming. I like be sure I checked out everything that anyone else would of.

Rob

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I've never seen 440-450rwhp on my dyno from a H/C.The most I've seen is 432hp and most are 390-420rwhp.Your timing problem might be the air quality and it just can't get enough.I run in this problem during the summer at the track. 24 degree's or 30 degree's of timing and get the same exact ET.
As said above,try 23-24 degree's of timing and see how it does.I know Cartek cars run this low of timing and run fast.

LEATHL_WS6

I'll have to try 24 just for the heck of it. The thing that is weird to me it that changing the timing makes no difference...... Still the same HP from 26 to 32.

As for no HC car making 440. I'm not really expecting to make 440 but 425 on my setup should be easy.

There was another guy on this dyno before me he had pp 5.3 heads and a 228 cam longtube and a loudmouth. He was running 29 degrees and they had to back it off because it was knocking. He had all the other boltons. stock bottom end an A4 and made in the high 420's. My car bigger cam more compression Manual trans. only made in the 390's. There has to be a reason and a problem.... I just need to find it.

Heck there was even a stock WS6 there with just tuning that made 337. Sure that one is a freak.

Thanks Rob

PurEvl

iTrader: (2)

back your timing off to 24 and try it again, some cars dont like alot. I ran better at 26 then 30 when I has h/c only. Also I picked up 2hp from 26-30.

Krazy98Z28

iTrader: (12)

I had that same shortblock and couldnt get more than 396rwhp, makes me wonder i tell ya. 2 dyno tunes on the same dyno, one with the engine new and the 2nd with like 3,000 miles and same HP this is with a TEA stage 2 5.3 and 232/236 cam and 30* timing. what weight oil you running just out of curiousity??? and hows the oil pressure??

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I would not go leaner than 12.5:1 at WOT on a Dynojet, it will be leaner than that under load aka on the street.

Well maybe do that underdrive pulley too. I think it's okay to compare numbers to other on the forum but I mostly look at the other cars that use the same dyno as me.

LEATHL_WS6

I did make 417 last last year with a 224 228 cam and this shortblock. S i can't really fault the Shortblock. I run 5w30. Oil pressure is good around 25 to 30 at idle and goes up nice with the rpm about 60 at 6500.

LEATHL_WS6

Agreed on the other cars using the same dyno. Nice thing was I have some good compos that pp headed A4 WS6 right before me made in the high 420's. Steve the shop owner has seen plenty similar setups making 420 to 430. He does all the cars in the area for miles. A lot guys from this forum have been on this dyno. Steve was amazed and baffled as to why I only made 390.

I have been on this dyno a dozen times trying to find out why it wont make power. I swear it like Christine. How can I pull 10% fuel and not see a difference in AFR?

Weird.

Why wouldnt you run leaner than 12.5. everyone seems to run at 13.0. Compression?

Rob

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Your not the only one with low numbers, I tuned a 2002 SS a few weeks ago and he only made 404HP & 365 TQ with a A/F of 12.5! Timing was at 28.

He has:

TSP 231 237 Cam
PP LS6 Heads
Pulley
SLP LT with cats
Catback
Lid

I did a thread in the PCM section about how much a MAF should flow and I was guessing his heads aren't flowing like they should...