MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

After talking to alot of my customers PLUS Chris Sikora(who just did a photo shoot for GMHTP)you race promotors need to get TOGETHER and get some rules that are the same. The magazines ARE NOT GOING TO COVER ONE EVENT!!!!! If you guys would build a set of rules as group then you will get coverage. I dont care if they are Nineballs rules OR Thunders, OR North vs. South.
I race my car as advertising as does Mikey @ Rapid and Wade @ ARE plus many others. We deserve the recognition from the magazines. All of our faithful customers that come out and spend their money at our places of business and put these shops on the map ALSO deserve magazine coverage.
All I'm saying is that the customer OR racer is getting screwed at these races by all the different promotors. If you want people to come then get the rules straight AND get some magazine coverage that is how you make this thing big!!!!!

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

I hate to say it, but you are right Brian....I agree with you completely. You never know what to do with your car, because you will prolly have to make changes for every race out there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Need more consistency!

Skelton

I agree 100%. Thats how the stang boys became so popular. Now it should be our turn.

H82BBad

I agree also. But with everyone selling heads and cam packages I dont see why there isnt a heads and cam class.IMO there should be.....
1 Heads up street power adder/stock ci/stk unported heads stock cam, on a drag radial
2 heads up street stk heads and cam NA on a drag radial
3 Heads and Hyd/cam NA any tire stk cubic inch
4. Heads and Hyd/cam power adder Stk CI
5 Heads up NA any ls1 NA limited to 28x10.5 non w tire And no c5r head's
6 Heads up power adder only limit being 28x10.5 tire, no c5r heads
LS1 unlimited...anything goes

3300 lb weight for all but unlimited it would be 3000 lbs
Sound good?

<small>[ December 07, 2002, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>

It'llrun

How about getting an NMRA or FFW rulebook to start off. Safety requirements that meet NHRA would be mandetory for all classes and you could have a really good baseline for which cars to class with which, based on the same guidelines they use. It would be an easy "jumpstart" to classifications and you'd also know more about possible competition!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

I can tell you this Brian... The Thunder Shootout rules and format are pretty well set as is except for some tightening up of Street Stock engine modification rules and adding of some new classes.

As for the magizines go they can come if they want but the main objective of the race is to give Thunder Racing customers a place to showcase and compare the performance of their cars. Of course everyone is invited.

Besides I thought our Outlaw rules were pretty well dead on. Do you think we should keep the weight for Outlaw at 3200 or drop it to 3000lb??

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

The point I'm trying to make is I dont care what the rules are. Joe K, Tom, Tony, and PSJ who are promoting these races should get together and try to consolidate some rules. The attitude of well the magazines can come IF they want to sucks. In the end you will be running racers off.

java

Madman, no offense meant, but you say "magazines" like there is a plethora of reading material for the late model F-body crowd ... other than GMHTP what is there other than the occasional article in CHP or PHP? GMHTP in my opinion has an elevated view of themselves and expect too much to get their articles if they want the shootouts to have the same rules.

The races are for us not them. Therefore, it should be the other way around, the racers that buy their magazines will be at the races ... if they want to increase THEIR MAGAZINE'S exposure then they should be were the racers are.

<small>[ December 08, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: java ]</small>

Geoff

iTrader: (3)

I think Madman has some very valid points. Unfortunately, I also think Java is somewhat right, LOL. When we approched GMHTP about covering our race, we were told that didn't have enough pages in the magazine to cover "just another race". I would say that if any promoter or promoters puts on more than one race it will simply get too big for the magzines to ignore at the risk of them becoming irrelevent to their readership.

I haven't actually looked at the North VS. South rules yet so I really can't comment on them. I would advise anyone contemplating putting on one of these races to very careful about not making the rules too complicated, this can make it a bitch to police and run off racers.

Also no single set of rules is going to satisfy everbody: Angie's car couldn't compete under our rules because her car is too light, Nineballs car is too heavy to compete in the class his engine displacement puts him in, Mikey can't run W tires, etc. In my opinion the rules need to be configured to attract the most racers and those few that cars that don't conform will either have to modify their cars or bracket race. On the other hand index or bracket racing with no car rules is a good way to get a lot of racers, but is that really racing? IMHO real racing is getting to the finish line first and not penalizing someone for going too fast.

None of the above comments should be taken as flaming, just as my random thoughts on the subject. I think it would be good to open more dialogue on this subject. Anyone else?

Air21

i agree with it'llrun .i know you guys dont like to hear it but the NMRA has some kickass classes and rules. The only way to really get around all the rule problems is to create a new racing league. You already have 3 races setup for this year, whats 3 more? This isnt really too far out of reach, If you could get a larger sponsor to step in... The magazines will cover whatever is hot, wether they have enough pages or not.

Bob Cosby

NMRA started in 99 with only 3 races - and one of them was the well-established Motorsport Nationals. They expanded to 6 in 2000, 8 in 2001, 7 in 2002 (one was cancelled due to track construction delays), and they are going to have 8 in 2003. It's a building process, with a fine line between enough and too much.

It takes a great deal of commitment, money, and effort to make it a successful program take off. You can't do a 'half-***' series and expect it to succeed. Since the beginning, the NMRA has been the sole focus of originally 3 people, and now somewhere around a dozen, with a few dozen more putting in part time work. They use their magazine - "The Race Pages" - as promotional tool. It has turned into a BIG deal.

That said, and can start as a 'grass roots' organization, and it doesn't have to get as big and bulky as the NMRA. It will still take a lot of time, money, and committment to make it happen - and it especially takes at least one person who is keenly focused - and who has industry connections (this can't be understated...it is important). The possibilities are quite exciting. As has been said...put a decent program together and the magazines WILL come.

Enough rambling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

java

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Geoff:
<strong>I think Madman has some very valid points. Unfortunately, I also think Java is somewhat right, LOL. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I just heard the Arch Angels trumpets blow LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by java:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Geoff:
<strong>I think Madman has some very valid points. Unfortunately, I also think Java is somewhat right, LOL. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I just heard the Arch Angels trumpets blow LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're not going to believe this but I even agree with you on this one.

Again I call em like I see em....

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

If the rules were all the same we could setup our cars to be competitive within them. If you want some serious coverage and exposure (of both the cars, LS1TECH.COM, and its sponsors), the races all need similar rules so you can establish a nationwide type competition.

Big Rick

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>If the rules were all the same we could setup our cars to be competitive within them. If you want some serious coverage and exposure (of both the cars, LS1TECH.COM, and its sponsors), the races all need similar rules so you can establish a nationwide type competition.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Werd

<img border="0" alt="[Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/corvette.gif" />

GeorgeC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>If the rules were all the same we could setup our cars to be competitive within them. If you want some serious coverage and exposure (of both the cars, LS1TECH.COM, and its sponsors), the races all need similar rules so you can establish a nationwide type competition.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm with Terry on this one... A standard set of rules would work out better for everyone, IMHO... Cars could be set up with certain classes in mind to run at their best in that particular trim, and folks who go to all the races wouldn't have to worry about changing parts around for different events. I'd love to see a late model F-body racing series blossom and do well.

Not that it means ****, but I'd support it. I'm usually willing to tow ~12hrs. or so for something like this. What ever happened to the NFRA?

KECHME

I'm sick of putting my 2 cents in, because I don't think the "promoters" are listening. EVERY BODY WANTS A CLASS THAT FITS THIER CAR PERFECTLY!!!! It's not gonna happen, so make some freakin standardized rules and lets go racing. If I can't be competitive in a certain class I'll either have to step it up, or run the brackets. The thing is, either way I'll be there because I love these damn cars. I think there are alot of people just like me that are gonna show up, even if there is not a class that suits them perfectly. I am honestly thinking about going mustang racing, I would almost rather be a benedict arnold and have a good time than to stay here and suffer along with this mindless crap that we are trying to call a F body racing series. IF ANY OF THE PROMOTERS NEED HELP IN ANY WAY, FEEL FREE TO CALL ME. I WILL START A FRIGIN FUND RAISER, OR HELP BUILD INTREST OR WHATEVER. I think it's time for us to take one or get off the pot.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Quick note, GMHTP is full up this year for event coverage...

I talked to Cameron Evans at Popular Hot Rodding and there's a chance of some coverage.

(NFRA is not really anything right now since it's too expensive to do by myself and takes like all my free time by myself).

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

If there was a class that was going to stay a round and have some rules written in stone I would be competing in it. I think alot of others would too. Nobody wants to keep spending more and more money to be "legal" for each event. In short, I agree with MADMAN.

VipZ28

iTrader: (4)

Sean, I agree with you, everyone would like to have a class that fits thier cars. Personally, a little thrashing the nights before the events (true BeaSSt style <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) isn't too big of a deal, except for the fact that your car is no longer what you are used to, and what it has been set up for. If we had some standardized rules it would help competitiveness, and possibly the fun factor because people wont be rushing to change stuff the night before races <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> If it doesn't happen, i'll still be there with my upcoming vehicle (circumstances permitting) and will definatley be crewing for Dave and Steven.