CAT3

iTrader: (9)

I have been out of the tuning loop for almost a year with my deployment to Afghanistan, but I have been re-reading the stickies and various posts as time permits on the VE table issues.

Is there any solid formula, table, spreadsheet on tuning with VE or has VE been abondoned for a new way?

Interesting enough was Joe's replies about using VE as the correct way to truely tune, rather than all the IFR, MAF tables etc, assuming the VE is THE fuel table.

Also, what tool is used to determine which cells are doing what most accurately, EFI, ATAP or does HPT have similar.

Thanks, I know its a lot to ask but I do appreciate it.

Charlie

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

HPT and Efilive (v 7.0) should be able to plot trims and AFR on a table format similar to the ve table. With this information you can then go back to the ve table and adjsut accordingly. Looking at the "ve cracked" thread you will see gameover posted a formula which calculated airflow back from a ve value. I plotted out Nogos's and gameovers formula and there was a +/-1% deviation between the two...

I and a few others have been using thier ve tables to tune some are mafless and some still have the maf in place and we have seen great results. My IFR table is stock and I havent messed with the MAF tables because my MAF somehow has disappeared

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

There's a long brain-curdling thread about the VE
table. What I got from it is, that above 4000RPM
it's all MAF, as you head down from 4000 toward
idle it blends in more and more VE in a composite
airflow value and by idle it's all or almost entirely
VE. Unless you unplug the MAF.

Several guys have gotten all fired up about SD tuning
and there's been a lot of discussion of it here and on
HPTuners site.

My own VE adjusting is more limited. I use it to get
idle and throttle transients right, suppress tip-in ping
/ KR and that kind of thing. I've never used the
spreadsheets for that. I have forced open loop and
1.00 fuel/air multiplier, and looked at O2s as indicators
of which way to move the VE values.

Each of the tables has their own "sphere of influence"
and models a particular component or aspect. In my
opinion all of the cal tables (IFR, MAF, VE) want nothing
more or less than realism, and "tuning" is for the tables
that command the desired result. But "calibrating" doesn't
sound so sexy.

Bink

Hey CAT3!! Welcome back!
Many Thanks, from all, for your Afghanistan tour.

ChrisB is working on his PhD - hasn't been around for a long time (no longer a moderator).

NoGo (He is the MAN! ) is concentrating on work (like many of us) and doesn't come around as much.

Joe Overton - I haven't seen a post by him in quote awhile.

gameover - having dissembled the PCM he's been able to confirm and provide insight into much of this.


I'm running my car Open Loop, through the MAF, with a complete VE table computed using NoGo's Equation. My Cam -> 239/251, 0.570".106LSA.

A correct VE table makes everything else more functional....especially with fly-by-wire.

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Bink, thanks, hope you dont mind if I save the hails for when I return back from this carpbox next April, yep still over here. Much calmer recently, and ....well anyway.

So, I can use either of the formulas posted in the VE table cracked, No-Gos and/or gameovers? I read thru every post on every page of scanning for a definitive answer, seems like there was still some part of the equation the two were different on. Ok, so I wil stick with this for now.

And so the old theories of tuning by adjusting IFR, MAF, and all that is now mostly out the window? And in it place is VE adjustments for tuning? Cool.

HumpinSS, how do you like the MAFLESS tune, less worries about MAF failure, but what abotu everyday driving? Any issues? Some say its more responsive, and other say less efficient (poor mileage). Whats your score on it?

Thanks,

Charlie....still in ***-crack-is-stan.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I like MAFLess a lot better than the maf. The maf seemed to make the car want to load up and was just a bear to tune. No issues what so ever just a SES light that i will eventually get around to taking care of. It is more responsive I cant comment on the mileage because the car has been down with a broke diff for a month now. But from my obeservation once up and running i expect to pick up some but prolly not due to me removing the maf. With HPTuners it was real easy to get dialed in. The ltrims still update with the MAF unplugged via the o2 sensors. HPTuners displays LTRIm information in a histogram in ve format. This was used in conjunction witht he ve table to dial the idle/pt mixtures in. After a little drivng and a couple passes on the table everythign fell in line


Thanks for protecting our country

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Good info, thanks. Just one more thing to try and teach myself. Ughh.

Third Gear

iTrader: (3)

Hey CAT3! Thanks for your service!

Well so far I have modified my stock VE significantly (worked over ZO6) to correct a KR issue I had. I can't quite figure out why this worked so well, but it has. With the way larger values KR would be down to a minimum, but if I'd put the stock table back in I would get 3-4* KR. Although S and L trims wouldn't change much. Strange. Even with 100 octane I got the same results. For some reason it just "likes" the ZO6 table. I think it's probably better to focus on the "air" side of things as opposed to fuel since there are more variables with the air side.

Lately I've been messing with the timing to see if I noticed any difference using a worked over 02 SS table. So far so good... it "seems" a bit more responsive in some areas. I've recorded 29-30* of timing up top with no KR. Actually I've been getting slightly less KR then normal. Just little spikes here and there... which is normal for me... well good luck

p.s. this tuning stuff is fun and addicting