Alot to be said about combinations....
12-16-2004, 09:39 PM
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Alot to be said about combinations.... I dyno'ed my girlfriends car today. Here is her current combo:
AFR 205's unmilled
Stealth II 224/220 116 581/581
FLP's, no cats thru a magnaflow cat back
Ported TB
Lid& K&N
3.73's Ten bolt
Vig 3200
364 rwhp locked, it looks to be around 350 unlocked on the graph.
Combo before; Absolute Stage twos with all new Manley valves and Patriot golds, Ti retainers.
Corsa Cat back with a bullet muffler and no ported TB everyting else the same.
388 rwhp unlocked, 405 locked
Same as above with no bullet muffler but with 224/228 112 578/591 and Patriot LQ4's milled .021
403 unlocked.
We hope to get track times with the current combo this weekend....
AFR 205's unmilled
Stealth II 224/220 116 581/581
FLP's, no cats thru a magnaflow cat back
Ported TB
Lid& K&N
3.73's Ten bolt
Vig 3200
364 rwhp locked, it looks to be around 350 unlocked on the graph.
Combo before; Absolute Stage twos with all new Manley valves and Patriot golds, Ti retainers.
Corsa Cat back with a bullet muffler and no ported TB everyting else the same.
388 rwhp unlocked, 405 locked
Same as above with no bullet muffler but with 224/228 112 578/591 and Patriot LQ4's milled .021
403 unlocked.
We hope to get track times with the current combo this weekend....
12-17-2004, 10:06 AM
#3
The cc volume of your Absolute Stage IIs was probably smaller than your unmilled AFR 205s. Compression makes big power, don't forget that.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-17-2004, 10:36 AM
#4
Your comparing apples and oranges with those two setups. One has a tad over 10:0:1 compression and the other has a tad over 11.0:1. Thats good for 2-4%. The cams aren't even close. There is no way a cam with a 116 lsa is gonna be even close to one on a much tighter 112. Your post just doesn't make sense.
Phil
Phil
12-17-2004, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RX-Ben
corrected or uncorrected?
Was there a retune involved? What was the AFR?
Same dyno? Similar weather?
Was there a retune involved? What was the AFR?
Same dyno? Similar weather?
Yes, all combo's where tuned & corrected. The afr for the current set up is in one of the columns above. A/F was similar on all three. All where on the same dyno. The weather for the Absolute combo was the warmest of the three.
Last edited by Spellbound; 12-17-2004 at 10:52 AM.
12-17-2004, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Your comparing apples and oranges with those two setups. One has a tad over 10:0:1 compression and the other has a tad over 11.0:1. Thats good for 2-4%. The cams aren't even close. There is no way a cam with a 116 lsa is gonna be even close to one on a much tighter 112. Your post just doesn't make sense.
Phil
Phil
Your right, I wasn't bashing, I just thought it was interesting on how combinations can affect your power.......It was obvious to me and the tuner that the afr's did not like that cam. How much difference does a 1/2 point of compression make in rwhp?
12-17-2004, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
The cc volume of your Absolute Stage IIs was probably smaller than your unmilled AFR 205s. Compression makes big power, don't forget that.
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12-17-2004, 02:17 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Spellbound
Yes, they were milled .015 from Absolute and then had a clean up mill of .006.
This is the reason I asked about the cc volume in the first place. Compression will make a big difference in numbers. The difference between 10:1 and 11:1 is around 15-20 rwhp with the right cam choice.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-17-2004, 05:09 PM
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The Absolutes were 63cc's LS1's, the AFR's are 66cc's. This will not account for the large power drop unless the AFR's don't function well with reverse split cams.
I went from 59.5cc chambers to 64cc chamber TEA-AFR's and picked up power and a shitload of torque.
I went from 59.5cc chambers to 64cc chamber TEA-AFR's and picked up power and a shitload of torque.
12-17-2004, 09:40 PM
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yeah, but with a reverse split and 116 lsa i'd say you're either looking to turbo the car in the future or youre, well im not sure. Thats too wide of an lsa man. 3200 stall? slap a single pattern 224 on there with a 114 lsa and im sure it will love it.
12-18-2004, 05:08 AM
#12
Hello...
AFR did ALOT of dyno testing with our 205's prior to hitting the market with our 224/228 Head and Cam package I have been featuring in my car and others.
I can tell you for a FACT, a single pattern cam will make less power than a forward split (going thru a full exhaust system in a street car with AFR 205 heads), and a reverse pattern cam will make even LESS. I've tried to help you guys with a winning "formula".....not just a great pair of cylinder heads.
Mill the heads to 61-62 cc's (shooting for 11 to 1 CR), use an .040 cometic gasket, and install an AFR part # 6016 camshaft straight up out of the box and take the time to degree and make sure its installed exactly where the cam card tells you it should be. The advance is "pre-ground" in the cam so in an ideal world "dot to dot" will hopefully be extremely close.
I bet you see a 30-40 HP gain and a nice bump in torque across the curve as well....Keep us posted if you do. The AFR cam is very docile and has a slight lope at 800-850 RPM's....a great "all around" street cam that makes excellent power over a wide RPM range (it will pull strong to 7000 RPM with a FAST 90 and the right valvetrain set-up....normally peaks around 63-6400 but definately doesn't fall on its face till over 7000 RPM's).
Good luck,
Tony M.
AFR did ALOT of dyno testing with our 205's prior to hitting the market with our 224/228 Head and Cam package I have been featuring in my car and others.
I can tell you for a FACT, a single pattern cam will make less power than a forward split (going thru a full exhaust system in a street car with AFR 205 heads), and a reverse pattern cam will make even LESS. I've tried to help you guys with a winning "formula".....not just a great pair of cylinder heads.
Mill the heads to 61-62 cc's (shooting for 11 to 1 CR), use an .040 cometic gasket, and install an AFR part # 6016 camshaft straight up out of the box and take the time to degree and make sure its installed exactly where the cam card tells you it should be. The advance is "pre-ground" in the cam so in an ideal world "dot to dot" will hopefully be extremely close.
I bet you see a 30-40 HP gain and a nice bump in torque across the curve as well....Keep us posted if you do. The AFR cam is very docile and has a slight lope at 800-850 RPM's....a great "all around" street cam that makes excellent power over a wide RPM range (it will pull strong to 7000 RPM with a FAST 90 and the right valvetrain set-up....normally peaks around 63-6400 but definately doesn't fall on its face till over 7000 RPM's).
Good luck,
Tony M.
12-18-2004, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Hello...
AFR did ALOT of dyno testing with our 205's prior to hitting the market with our 224/228 Head and Cam package I have been featuring in my car and others.
I can tell you for a FACT, a single pattern cam will make less power than a forward split (going thru a full exhaust system in a street car with AFR 205 heads), and a reverse pattern cam will make even LESS. I've tried to help you guys with a winning "formula".....not just a great pair of cylinder heads.
Mill the heads to 61-62 cc's (shooting for 11 to 1 CR), use an .040 cometic gasket, and install an AFR part # 6016 camshaft straight up out of the box and take the time to degree and make sure its installed exactly where the cam card tells you it should be. The advance is "pre-ground" in the cam so in an ideal world "dot to dot" will hopefully be extremely close.
I bet you see a 30-40 HP gain and a nice bump in torque across the curve as well....Keep us posted if you do. The AFR cam is very docile and has a slight lope at 800-850 RPM's....a great "all around" street cam that makes excellent power over a wide RPM range (it will pull strong to 7000 RPM with a FAST 90 and the right valvetrain set-up....normally peaks around 63-6400 but definately doesn't fall on its face till over 7000 RPM's).
Good luck,
Tony M.
AFR did ALOT of dyno testing with our 205's prior to hitting the market with our 224/228 Head and Cam package I have been featuring in my car and others.
I can tell you for a FACT, a single pattern cam will make less power than a forward split (going thru a full exhaust system in a street car with AFR 205 heads), and a reverse pattern cam will make even LESS. I've tried to help you guys with a winning "formula".....not just a great pair of cylinder heads.
Mill the heads to 61-62 cc's (shooting for 11 to 1 CR), use an .040 cometic gasket, and install an AFR part # 6016 camshaft straight up out of the box and take the time to degree and make sure its installed exactly where the cam card tells you it should be. The advance is "pre-ground" in the cam so in an ideal world "dot to dot" will hopefully be extremely close.
I bet you see a 30-40 HP gain and a nice bump in torque across the curve as well....Keep us posted if you do. The AFR cam is very docile and has a slight lope at 800-850 RPM's....a great "all around" street cam that makes excellent power over a wide RPM range (it will pull strong to 7000 RPM with a FAST 90 and the right valvetrain set-up....normally peaks around 63-6400 but definately doesn't fall on its face till over 7000 RPM's).
Good luck,
Tony M.
Now if I can talk her into one more cam or head change, lol