New Personal Best...finally!
12-18-2004, 07:36 AM
#1
New Personal Best...finally! After borrowing a stock MAF from a neighbor down the road, I finally got to take the car to the track. Of course, me doing everything at the last minute, I was rushed to get there. I wasnt expecting too much out of the car, but my goal was to run an 11.30. I only got to make 2 passes because after the 2nd pass, the tranny started acting up and wouldnt let me go into 2nd or 3rd gear. So I had to call it a night. 
Anyhow, it wasnt my 10 sec. pass that I wanted, but I didnt expect it to go that fast with the weight or the cam. Here are the results with not being able to make adjustments, without trying different settings, etc. Overall...I'd have to say Im happy. I was pretty excited. I know the car has more in it and the 60 ft. definately needs some working on. I think when I dial it in, I can definately see another tenth knocked off.
First pass...
60 ft.: 1.52
1/8th: 7.172
MPH: 95.81
1/4: 11.30
MPH: 115.23
By the way, on the first pass, I hit the rev limiter twice on the 1-2 shift and hit the brakes right before crossing the finish line. I would of imagined that I could of probably pulled an 11.1X
Second pass...
60 ft.: 1.58
1/8th: 7.11
MPH: 96.40
1/4: 11.22
MPH: 116.90
This was with a 3340 race weight, Yank PT4400, 4.10 gear, bolt-ons, and MTI C2 cam (224/.581/112). With a little more weight reduction, get the car setup, adjusted, and dialed in, and bigger cam, the car definately has a 10 in it which is my #1 goal! Im very happy with the results, felt good going down the track. I wish I would of manually shifted the first pass and would of gone through the traps without getting on the brake. Would have like to seen what I would of ran. Only thing that I wonder about my times, is the MPH and the 60 ft. I would think the car should be in the 1.4s and my MPH I would of thought to be higher because I ran that MPH with a SS4000 and a 3.42 gear. Anyhow, finally glad I could get the car out in a hurry. Hopefully when I get the tranny issue worked out and the squeeling I had trying to make a 3rd pass, I'll take her back out. Let me know what you think of the runs. Thanks.
Anyhow, it wasnt my 10 sec. pass that I wanted, but I didnt expect it to go that fast with the weight or the cam. Here are the results with not being able to make adjustments, without trying different settings, etc. Overall...I'd have to say Im happy. I was pretty excited. I know the car has more in it and the 60 ft. definately needs some working on. I think when I dial it in, I can definately see another tenth knocked off.First pass...
60 ft.: 1.52
1/8th: 7.172
MPH: 95.81
1/4: 11.30
MPH: 115.23
By the way, on the first pass, I hit the rev limiter twice on the 1-2 shift and hit the brakes right before crossing the finish line. I would of imagined that I could of probably pulled an 11.1X
Second pass...
60 ft.: 1.58
1/8th: 7.11
MPH: 96.40
1/4: 11.22
MPH: 116.90
This was with a 3340 race weight, Yank PT4400, 4.10 gear, bolt-ons, and MTI C2 cam (224/.581/112). With a little more weight reduction, get the car setup, adjusted, and dialed in, and bigger cam, the car definately has a 10 in it which is my #1 goal! Im very happy with the results, felt good going down the track. I wish I would of manually shifted the first pass and would of gone through the traps without getting on the brake. Would have like to seen what I would of ran. Only thing that I wonder about my times, is the MPH and the 60 ft. I would think the car should be in the 1.4s and my MPH I would of thought to be higher because I ran that MPH with a SS4000 and a 3.42 gear. Anyhow, finally glad I could get the car out in a hurry. Hopefully when I get the tranny issue worked out and the squeeling I had trying to make a 3rd pass, I'll take her back out. Let me know what you think of the runs. Thanks.
12-18-2004, 08:05 AM
#4
Thanks. I'm running a 200-4R and the consistency on the shiftpoints isnt as good as a computer controlled tranny like a 4L60E. I've played with the throttle valve cable to see if I can get it dead on, but no luck. Not sure if something is wrong with the tranny or if the fluid was low, but it hit the rev limiter on the first pass on the 1-2 shift and I think it hit it once on the 2-3 shift, but cant remember. So 2nd pass I shifted it manually.
12-18-2004, 09:47 AM
#6
My 4L60E is bullet proof,I have 50 runs on it now and it still shifts like it did when I put it in,over 4K miles ago.I will be very happy with 125 runs before I need to redo the clutches.
Set your rev limiter at 6800 and set your shift lite at 6500 with that cam BeaSST.Do NOT change the cam,it will run 10's with the C2 as this is a great cam.I'd work on the susp. alittle,take alittle more weight out and bring that TP4400 up to about 2800 to 3000 and let it go.It'll run 10's the way it sits,just tweek what u have now and you'll be telling me I was right
BUT.........
I think there might be some slipping going on w/your box.You only went 20MPH from the 1/8 to the 1/4,I'd expect 24MPH from there which would put u at 119 so get the box checked.
Pretty decent ETs for a cam only car,BeaSSt
Set your rev limiter at 6800 and set your shift lite at 6500 with that cam BeaSST.Do NOT change the cam,it will run 10's with the C2 as this is a great cam.I'd work on the susp. alittle,take alittle more weight out and bring that TP4400 up to about 2800 to 3000 and let it go.It'll run 10's the way it sits,just tweek what u have now and you'll be telling me I was right
BUT.........
I think there might be some slipping going on w/your box.You only went 20MPH from the 1/8 to the 1/4,I'd expect 24MPH from there which would put u at 119 so get the box checked.
Pretty decent ETs for a cam only car,BeaSSt
12-18-2004, 10:59 AM
#7
Nine Ball, the car never had a 4L60E in it. It started out as a 6 speed and then I converted it to a 200-4R back in January of last year.
JS, my rev limiter is set at 6900 rpms and to set the shift points, you either have to add weight or remove weight from the weights on the governor. When I first had the tranny built, it would shift almost dead on, but now it seems to wanna overshift a lot. That is why I manually shifted it on the 2nd pass.
I definately need to work on the suspension, I have yet to get it dialed in. I also plan on removing some more weight, just have to figure out what else I want to get rid of.
What do you mean there may be some slippage going on with my box?
JS, my rev limiter is set at 6900 rpms and to set the shift points, you either have to add weight or remove weight from the weights on the governor. When I first had the tranny built, it would shift almost dead on, but now it seems to wanna overshift a lot. That is why I manually shifted it on the 2nd pass.
I definately need to work on the suspension, I have yet to get it dialed in. I also plan on removing some more weight, just have to figure out what else I want to get rid of.
What do you mean there may be some slippage going on with my box?
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12-18-2004, 12:31 PM
#9
Possibly that explains the low mph..
You should try and use this equaztion when figuring et/mph based on the 1/8 et/mph.
EG
7.11 X 1.56 = 11.09 (+/- .10)
96.49 X 1.25 = 120.05 (+/- 1MPH)
Looks like your ET was close but your MPH was 4mph off,I think its probaly a combo of hitting the limiter and no lockup and not the trans.
U have a 10 Sec pass in this car so dont change anything,just kweep tweeking this setup (rev limiter/trans shifts/susp.) and you'll have your 10 Sedc slip.
You should try and use this equaztion when figuring et/mph based on the 1/8 et/mph.
EG
7.11 X 1.56 = 11.09 (+/- .10)
96.49 X 1.25 = 120.05 (+/- 1MPH)
Looks like your ET was close but your MPH was 4mph off,I think its probaly a combo of hitting the limiter and no lockup and not the trans.
U have a 10 Sec pass in this car so dont change anything,just kweep tweeking this setup (rev limiter/trans shifts/susp.) and you'll have your 10 Sedc slip.
12-18-2004, 01:05 PM
#11
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
Nice new numbers.
You have two challenges, maximixing your power and the other is hooking it. If it was my car I would mess with shift points, not worry about locking up the converter. I'd keep a journal of shift points, or log them. I'd bump the 1-2 shift point up until the car falls off. I'd be shifting at 6500 for sure with that cam as a baseline. I'd then mess with 2-3 shift.
I'd then address the short time. Slicks will typically grow +2psi during your burnout, what are you starting out at? A 1.58 with your combo is probably at least a 1/2 car length of tire spin. A low 1.5 might be a dead hook for you depending on the weather and which converter you have. I would never run the tires less than 12psi hot, tweak other stuff. If you put front QA1's at 2/2 loose, you can't go wrong for a baseline. As far as the rears go, I like to start at 4/4 loose and then go from there. At a sloppy track you might go less. At a great track you can go harder. At an ideal track you would run 6 or even 8 hard in the back but we never have that kind of track prep up here. But 6 to 8 hard in the back is what veteran chassis tuners shoot for.
You have two challenges, maximixing your power and the other is hooking it. If it was my car I would mess with shift points, not worry about locking up the converter. I'd keep a journal of shift points, or log them. I'd bump the 1-2 shift point up until the car falls off. I'd be shifting at 6500 for sure with that cam as a baseline. I'd then mess with 2-3 shift.
I'd then address the short time. Slicks will typically grow +2psi during your burnout, what are you starting out at? A 1.58 with your combo is probably at least a 1/2 car length of tire spin. A low 1.5 might be a dead hook for you depending on the weather and which converter you have. I would never run the tires less than 12psi hot, tweak other stuff. If you put front QA1's at 2/2 loose, you can't go wrong for a baseline. As far as the rears go, I like to start at 4/4 loose and then go from there. At a sloppy track you might go less. At a great track you can go harder. At an ideal track you would run 6 or even 8 hard in the back but we never have that kind of track prep up here. But 6 to 8 hard in the back is what veteran chassis tuners shoot for.
12-18-2004, 01:17 PM
#13
John is correct u dont need to lu the verter but its gonna be helpful as far as trap mph.
I run my Hals at 4 front and the rears are set tight (comps 50/50).
Maximizing your setup will require SLICKS...Set them at 13lbs cold and go from there,start shifting 6300 and work your way up until it falls off like PJS told u..
The cars got a 10 with alittle tweeking...
I run my Hals at 4 front and the rears are set tight (comps 50/50).
Maximizing your setup will require SLICKS...Set them at 13lbs cold and go from there,start shifting 6300 and work your way up until it falls off like PJS told u..
The cars got a 10 with alittle tweeking...
12-18-2004, 04:44 PM
#14
Wow, Im really shocked that Im even getting responses, I really appreciate the effort and the time you take to help me out!
Pro Stock John, I have no way of knowing where the car starts falling. The only thing I can tell you is that the hp peaks around 6400 and carries it to about 6600 where it slowly starts to drop. The curve is actually quite flat. My dyno graph is in the dyno section. That is why I shift the car around 6600 rpms. I cant play with the shift points by adjusting the computer. I run a 200-4R tranny which is non-computer controlled. Does it make a difference that I shift the 1-2 and the 2-3 differently? I would think if the car makes power till 6600 rpms, then to shift it at that rpm. Im no expert, that is why I ask.
On the tires, I started out at 15 psi cold, then on the 2nd pass I dropped it down to 13 psi cold. I only got to make 2 runs because I had tranny problems. I cut a 1.52 on my first run at 15 psi launching at 2000 rpms, but I dont consider that a good hook knowing that I run a Yank PT4400 and a 4.10 gear.
The front shocks were set at 2, the rear shocks were set a 4, and the right rear air bag pressure was set at 20 psi.
JS, I'm running 26x10x15 Mickey Thompson ET Drags. On the shift points, how can I tell when the car starts falling if I have no way of logging anything? (no Autotap)
Pro Stock John, I have no way of knowing where the car starts falling. The only thing I can tell you is that the hp peaks around 6400 and carries it to about 6600 where it slowly starts to drop. The curve is actually quite flat. My dyno graph is in the dyno section. That is why I shift the car around 6600 rpms. I cant play with the shift points by adjusting the computer. I run a 200-4R tranny which is non-computer controlled. Does it make a difference that I shift the 1-2 and the 2-3 differently? I would think if the car makes power till 6600 rpms, then to shift it at that rpm. Im no expert, that is why I ask.
On the tires, I started out at 15 psi cold, then on the 2nd pass I dropped it down to 13 psi cold. I only got to make 2 runs because I had tranny problems. I cut a 1.52 on my first run at 15 psi launching at 2000 rpms, but I dont consider that a good hook knowing that I run a Yank PT4400 and a 4.10 gear.
The front shocks were set at 2, the rear shocks were set a 4, and the right rear air bag pressure was set at 20 psi.
JS, I'm running 26x10x15 Mickey Thompson ET Drags. On the shift points, how can I tell when the car starts falling if I have no way of logging anything? (no Autotap)
12-21-2004, 06:13 PM
#16
I didnt get much practice or enough runs to make adjustments to see what works best, but hopefully next time out, things will be better. I called my tranny builder and told him what was going on with the tranny and he said more than likely the the governor spring must have popped off. So Im probably going to look into it tomorrow.
The front shocks were set at 2 and the rears were set at 4, with the airbag in the passenger side spring set at 15 psi. When I get to go out again, Ill play with that a bit more.
The tires were set at 13 cold. I didnt get to mess with pressure either because of the limited runs. I plan on playing with it as well next time out. They were brand new, I heated them up pretty good on the first run and not as much on the 2nd. I forgot again to mark the tires to see if the rims were spinning.
Setting up the pinion angle Im not sure is right just yet. Im going to set it at -2 since I have half poly, half spherical ends. That is what I was told to run with half solid and half poly. I'll have to get that worked out too.
Again, with the limited runs, I only got to stall the converter up to 2500 rpms or so. I'll play with that as well.
The first run I hit the limiter twice on the 1-2 shift and I cant remember if I hit it on the 2-3 shift. On the 2nd run, I didnt hit the limiter at all, but I short shifted the 1-2 shift and the rpms hovered at 6500 in 3rd towards the end of the track. Not sure what was going on. Anyhow have any idea? From what Ive been told here, I should shift the car 100-300 rpms above my hp peak. I think the cam peaks around 6300. Is this not true?
I wanna pull more weight out, but not sure what I want to keep and what I dont mind going. I'll have to give it some thought and get to it.
I dunno, for the converter, gear, and weight, I think the car should be pulling 1.4Xs. What do you think?
The front shocks were set at 2 and the rears were set at 4, with the airbag in the passenger side spring set at 15 psi. When I get to go out again, Ill play with that a bit more.
The tires were set at 13 cold. I didnt get to mess with pressure either because of the limited runs. I plan on playing with it as well next time out. They were brand new, I heated them up pretty good on the first run and not as much on the 2nd. I forgot again to mark the tires to see if the rims were spinning.
Setting up the pinion angle Im not sure is right just yet. Im going to set it at -2 since I have half poly, half spherical ends. That is what I was told to run with half solid and half poly. I'll have to get that worked out too.
Again, with the limited runs, I only got to stall the converter up to 2500 rpms or so. I'll play with that as well.
The first run I hit the limiter twice on the 1-2 shift and I cant remember if I hit it on the 2-3 shift. On the 2nd run, I didnt hit the limiter at all, but I short shifted the 1-2 shift and the rpms hovered at 6500 in 3rd towards the end of the track. Not sure what was going on. Anyhow have any idea? From what Ive been told here, I should shift the car 100-300 rpms above my hp peak. I think the cam peaks around 6300. Is this not true?
I wanna pull more weight out, but not sure what I want to keep and what I dont mind going. I'll have to give it some thought and get to it.
I dunno, for the converter, gear, and weight, I think the car should be pulling 1.4Xs. What do you think?
12-22-2004, 09:34 AM
#17
Originally Posted by JS
You only went 20MPH from the 1/8 to the 1/4,I'd expect 24MPH from there which would put u at 119 so get the box checked.
That's the first thing I noticed. I ran 7.1 @ 96 in the 8th but ran 11.2 @ 119.7 in the 1/4. I do have the 4L60E though and I am also locking my converter in 3rd. I can't for the life of me understand how you and many others are making it to the traps without locking your converter. Maybe something is wrong with my converter but I run out of rpm around 95 mph with my converter unlocked so I have no choice. I have 26 inch Hoosier QTP's and 4.10 gears and cross the finish line at 6500 rpm at 119 mph with the converter locked.
Isn't there also some ET he can shed if he locks the converter? Seems to me if he locked the converter he would gain mph and lose ET, best of both worlds.
12-22-2004, 02:20 PM
#18
PewterZ28, before I was running a SS4000 and a 3.42 gear, so locking the converter wasnt really necessary I guess. But now Im running a PT4400 and a 4.10 gear, so I definately think I need to lock the converter. I dont have the tranny wired up yet so that I can lock it up, but its not going to be a problem, I just have to get off my lazy butt.
Could you explain these 2 quotes please:
Could you explain these 2 quotes please:
I can't for the life of me understand how you and many others are making it to the traps without locking your converter.
Maybe something is wrong with my converter but I run out of rpm around 95 mph with my converter unlocked so I have no choice.
12-22-2004, 04:31 PM
#19
The first quote I meant that there are a lot of people on here who don't lock their converters but still manage to get to the finish line before running out of rpm. If they had 3.23 gears or something I would understand but many of them have 4.10's or more. I guess a lot of people are using really tall tires too. 
The second quote I meant that I wonder if my converter is slipping more than it should because I run out of rpm around 95 mph when it is unlocked. Other people don't seem to have this problem. Maybe there's something I'm missing that others are doing and I'm not. All I know is I did the calculations to figure out what size tire I need with my 4.10 gears to go through the traps around 6500 rpm. I did the calculation assuming the converter was locked in 3rd gear. I can't imagine the size tire I would need in order to make it to 120 mph with the converter unlocked!
Anyone know if Coach is locking his converter? He's running a cam only set up I believe but I'm pretty sure he has 5.13 gears and an TH400! I would think you would HAVE to lock the converter with that combo! Coach?
The second quote I meant that I wonder if my converter is slipping more than it should because I run out of rpm around 95 mph when it is unlocked. Other people don't seem to have this problem. Maybe there's something I'm missing that others are doing and I'm not. All I know is I did the calculations to figure out what size tire I need with my 4.10 gears to go through the traps around 6500 rpm. I did the calculation assuming the converter was locked in 3rd gear. I can't imagine the size tire I would need in order to make it to 120 mph with the converter unlocked!
Anyone know if Coach is locking his converter? He's running a cam only set up I believe but I'm pretty sure he has 5.13 gears and an TH400!
I would think you would HAVE to lock the converter with that combo! Coach? Last edited by PewterZ28; 12-22-2004 at 04:36 PM.