View Full Version : Penalty/fine in IL for not having cats??


bowtieman81
12-21-2004, 02:40 PM
I am trying to decide if I should get a catted y pipe or not. What would be the fine if I get pulled over for having a loud exhaust and they find out I have no cats? Fort the car I want LT headers, ORY, cutout in I-pipe and stock muffler. Car already has cutout in it, so I figured might as well keep stock muffler on it. Also, does anybody know how loud it would be going through stock muffler or if it would be raspy?

horist
12-21-2004, 04:28 PM
well the fine would be 2000 i believe... it's not an IL law it's a federal law

I do not know anyone that's gotten busted for this though... several have passed recently w/out cats... I plan on testing next april w/my true duals (no cats) that dump before the axles

SilverGhost
12-21-2004, 04:33 PM
i got hit in fall of 03 when i was pulled over. the copper gave me a mover title illegallyi modified exhaust. I believe he mentioned he was being nice and not hanging me for lack of cats though. so mine was just a standard mover.

RPM WS6
12-21-2004, 06:41 PM
The fine would be $2500 for individuals or $25,000 for dealers/manufactures. Here's some info I found while researching a while ago.....

The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in any motor vehicle in compliance with regulations under Title II of the Act (i.e., regulations requiring certification that vehicles meet federal emissions standards). The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Accordingly, any change from the original certified configuration of a vehicle or engine, or the manufacture or sale of a non-original equipment aftermarket part or system could be considered a violation of section 203(a)(3) of the Act. This would include modifications to the fuel delivery system.

This is not the sort of fine that would be given by a traffic cop though, it's a USEPA fine to be enforced by the Feds. I suppose a local police department could report it to an ILEPA Regulator who would review the case and maybe inspect the car, and then cite it for any violations and possibily turn the case over to the Feds for the USEPA to prosecute; or maybe the ILEPA would do it themselves......

Will that ever happen to you? Well, to sum it up, I think you've got a hell of a better chance of winning the Mega Millions game..... TWICE. ;)

Worst you'd probably ever face in IL would be the same experiance Silverghost posted above. Get cited for illegal exhaust and pay a standard traffic fine. I drove around with an ORY for years with my '00 WS6. Got pulled over a couple times too, cops never said a word about the exhaust, and they were state troopers too. :eek:

Dan00Hawk
12-22-2004, 10:58 AM
I've gotten a ticket for illegal exhaust in WoodDale only because it was louder than stock. The cop never thought to check if I had cats... Meanwhile, I've passed the EPA test without cats (224 cam, MTI stage 2 heads, FLP headers w/ no cats).

So until they start actively checking, or you say or do something that draws their attention to the fact that you don't have cats, you are likely in the clear and don't need to lose sleep worrying about it. :)

BADSZ28
12-22-2004, 01:10 PM
These rules are crap. Why should anyone care about what exhaust is on the car as long as it passes tests. If the car is below limmits it should be fine. Just another way the government has you by the balls.

stik6shift93
12-22-2004, 04:52 PM
Been driving around for 4 years without cats and have never had any problems. Most i've ever gotten was a loud exhaust ticket, cop thought i didn't have mufflers on the car. He looked under the sides and asked why i didn't have mufflers, i told him it's in the back in the middle, didn't even notice i wasn't running cats, or my cutout wideopen right next to my muffler in back when he looked at it :jest: . I wouldn't sweat it at all, most cops won't even get on their knees to look under your car.

AdamSS
12-22-2004, 07:47 PM
These rules are crap. Why should anyone care about what exhaust is on the car as long as it passes tests. If the car is below limmits it should be fine. Just another way the government has you by the balls.

It's not below limits, and they only reason it's passing is because people fool the computer by deleting rear Oxygen sensors.
If Illinois still had the sniffer test on OBDII cars, you wouldn;t pass without cats. Even with LT headers and cats you wouldn't pass... I know a couple people in NY that do not pass sniffer with cats and TR224 cam...

Not trying to be a tree hugger here, but let's face the reality: No cats = crap coming out of your pipe....simple as that.

Nothing wrong with cats. They rob ~2rwhp max if you run them. Small price for healthy enviroment...

RPM WS6
12-22-2004, 07:56 PM
Nothing wrong with cats. They rob ~2rwhp max if you run them. Small price for healthy enviroment...

I disagree. They clog easy with big cams, they complicate your exhaust system (install, routing, and clearance), they mellow the exhaust note (good or bad depending on personal taste), they cost extra $$$, they usually rob more than just 2rwhp (plus rwtq) at many points in the useable rpm band, and your fuel economy will increase with their removal (I've proven this on a couple cars).

For a car that sees little usage like a nice weather weekend cruiser or race car, the enviromental "damage" is not even measureable.

97M6Formula
12-22-2004, 08:42 PM
When I removed my cats I was getting easy an extra 20 miles out of a tank and I hate damn catsall they do is cause more problem I say F*** em

BADSZ28
12-23-2004, 10:51 AM
I have heard of guys (before OBDII testing) that would pass without cats. You can tune it to poor less gas out the pipes for a cleaner burn, also add more fuel because you can fail too rich or too lean. If you get it right you can pass sniffer without cats.

AdamSS
12-23-2004, 11:48 AM
I just wish people were speaking less out of their asses, and more from their brains....

Cats do make a huge difference, and no matter how well you tune, without cats you will polute like crazy...

Check out this Study done at University of Michigan....
See figure II, and how cats decrease HC emissions....

http://www.engin.umd.umich.edu/ceep/reports/97-98/shamim.html

LS1csherm
12-23-2004, 02:45 PM
No cats on any of my vehs
Never had a problem.
I also hear folks cutting shells in half and welding them around pipes to give
the appearance that the cats are there - passes the "visual" test.
Personal pref for me. If it passes the tests - all the better

MeentSS02
12-23-2004, 05:15 PM
Cats suck...they are independent, don't like to cuddle, etc. They pretty much just meow, crap in a box, and eat all of your food.

And in about a week, my car won't have them either :) I figure for every Hybrid Honda on the road, I need to be making up for them. It is kinda like the Lion King. Circle of life. You know the song...

MadIceV8
12-23-2004, 05:38 PM
I was told by a IL cop that if you get pulled over without CATS they are supposted to impound your car on the spot and its a minimum $500 fine. He let us go, but said he wanted to warn us.

RPM WS6
12-23-2004, 05:56 PM
I just wish people were speaking less out of their asses, and more from their brains....


Not sure who this was directed at, but if it was me then I suggest you re-read my post before making such statements.

Incase you didn't notice, everything I posted was correct. Can you disprove any of it? Here, I'll quote myself so you don't even have to scroll back up:

I disagree. They [cats] clog easy with big cams, they complicate your exhaust system (install, routing, and clearance), they mellow the exhaust note (good or bad depending on personal taste), they cost extra $$$, they usually rob more than just 2rwhp (plus rwtq) at many points in the useable rpm band, and your fuel economy will increase with their removal (I've proven this on a couple cars).

No one is saying that cats don't help to reduce emissions (at least I'm not making that claim). The point is, you made the statement, "Nothing wrong with cats", and all I did was point out that there are in fact downsides to using them. Period.

Do they reduce emissions? Yes.
Do they rob power? Yes.
Do they cost money? Yes.
Do they hurt MPG? Yes.
Do they clog easy with LARGE cam motors? Yes.

So I guess we're both right. ;)

Anyway, it's the holiday season so merry christmas and happy new year! :cheers: :)

stik6shift93
12-23-2004, 06:11 PM
On bolt on cars cats do a lot to cleanup the exhaust, however once you get to the point were you have a cam in the car they don't do as much. There's to much raw fuel in the exhaust for them to do their job properly. They will clog a lot sooner with the extra raw fuel too. Also to whoever, i can guarntee that you will never come close to passing without cats in our cars. The only way i could see you passing is if you had a geo metro.

Harley-Davidson88
12-27-2004, 02:12 PM
I am trying to decide if I should get a catted y pipe or not. What would be the fine if I get pulled over for having a loud exhaust and they find out I have no cats? Fort the car I want LT headers, ORY, cutout in I-pipe and stock muffler. Car already has cutout in it, so I figured might as well keep stock muffler on it. Also, does anybody know how loud it would be going through stock muffler or if it would be raspy?

I wouldn't worry about it much in our area. I have never heard of anyone getting busted for it around here. I plan on going with race headers and true duals here in a few months.

I have been pulled over twice with my loudmouth and nothing was even mentioned about my exhaust. I do make sure to shut my car off as soon as I pull over just to be safe though.

Steve Burger
12-29-2004, 11:17 AM
I agree with Harley. Around here it is not an issue. Now go hug a tree! :)

BADSZ28
12-29-2004, 01:23 PM
I know of two F-Bodies that passed without cats. A 93 and a 95 T/A. Both had long tubes with ORY pipes. I don't just talk out of my ass and make shit up. I also saw a Fox body pass after a few injector swaps at a shop I used to work at. It was a blown and built 5.0. I think he went from 42lbs to 36lbs to pass. Don't get me wrong most times a tune or injector swap is not enough. These guys were lucky. Also I never said that the cats do nothing for smog, they do reduce emissions.

stik6shift93
12-29-2004, 08:54 PM
Again i will say there is absolutely no way that one of these cars will pass a sniffer without cats, with the set epa limits it's not possible. You can lean the hell out of the car put alcohol in your tank and it still won't come close, sorry but i'm going to have to call bs.

bigbadblackws6
12-30-2004, 12:15 AM
Cats suck...they are independent, don't like to cuddle, etc. They pretty much just meow, crap in a box, and eat all of your food.

And in about a week, my car won't have them either :) I figure for every Hybrid Honda on the road, I need to be making up for them. It is kinda like the Lion King. Circle of life. You know the song...


no cats once spring hits.....

st8 thru exhaust

hooker headers
hooker no-cat y-pipe
no mufflers

i agree with the hybrid honda thing u said.

sorry everyone... i respect the environment but i gotta have the sound and the power.............

haha

Velocity
12-30-2004, 11:26 AM
no cats once spring hits.....

st8 thru exhaust

hooker headers
hooker no-cat y-pipe
no mufflers

i agree with the hybrid honda thing u said.

sorry everyone... i respect the environment but i gotta have the sound and the power.............

haha


Have you ever driven a car with wide open exhaust like this? Do you have any idea how loud that is going to be? :eek2:

Also... why would you run a y-pipe if you don't intend on using mufflers? It doesn't sound like you have completley thought this through.

I hope you know what you're getting yourself into. Otherwise, you're in for a rude awakening... literally.

Velocity
12-30-2004, 11:27 AM
I know of two F-Bodies that passed without cats. A 93 and a 95 T/A. Both had long tubes with ORY pipes. I don't just talk out of my ass and make shit up. I also saw a Fox body pass after a few injector swaps at a shop I used to work at. It was a blown and built 5.0. I think he went from 42lbs to 36lbs to pass. Don't get me wrong most times a tune or injector swap is not enough. These guys were lucky. Also I never said that the cats do nothing for smog, they do reduce emissions.

If you're talking about sniffer tests, this post is pretty hilarious.

Velocity
12-30-2004, 11:48 AM
One more thing bigbadbalckws6... your info says St. Joseph... are you moving to Illinois or something? Where is the car registered?

Guys - if his car is registered in Michigan he won't have to worry about ANY testing at all... sniff, visual, computer... nothing.

He would just have to worry about an IL cop pulling him over because he's too loud or something... I run LT headers, ORY, and Corsa catback... I'm in MI, never any sort of testing. I've driven the car in several states, and never gotten pulled over for any reason, and never had any problems with the exhaust. He'll be fine.

02WS6Bird
12-30-2004, 08:41 PM
im getting cats...for SOUND reasons alone...that and my dad is an IL State Police officer, as well as a former mechanic, he says to get the cats....avoid the hassle of the impounding of the car...delete the rear 02's or whatever so you can PASS EMISSIONS and enjoy the freakin thing! lol...the cats arent that much of a nuissance or anything, just something thatlll help ya sleep better at night, atleast thats how i see it. when he was a kid him and his buddies would run straight pipes...so many times has he recommended it for me lol but eh not my style. if you get them or not it wont make much difference...you can always purchase shells to place over the pipe for the appearance...otherwise if your not worried about some1 looking under the car....F*ck 'Em and stay away...

RPM WS6
12-31-2004, 03:05 PM
....avoid the hassle of the impounding of the car...

I've personally never heard of this happening to anyone in IL. And I would think the ONLY way that any cop would go that far is if they really had it in for that specfic person for some reason.

the cats arent that much of a nuissance or anything

They can be, depending on the design of the rest of your exhaust system (making it very hard to fit them in) and the size of your cam. If your cam is big enough, it doesn't matter how well you tune it the cats will clog often.

Personally, in the last 8 years or so I've had quite a few cars without them. I've been pulled over a number of times for various stuff, and even with a loud exhaust (and raw fuel smell & lopey cam) no cop has ever made mention of the cats, ever.

If you're working with a stock cam and stock style exhaust system/routing then go ahead and use 'em (I'm leaving them on my Z28). But for any extremely aggresive setups I'd just leave them off. IMO.

:cheers: