Western Members - Got rolled by Force Fed Performance

After 2 clutch installs, a bunch of money, and threatened physical violence, all I have to show
for my dealings with Keith at FFP in Sac is a weak clutch pedal, freshly scratched tint, improperly installed switches, and a damaged transmission.


This spring I took my 2002 Trans Am to FFP (then in Yuba City) to have them replace the stock
clutch & flywhell, install an SLP line lock, and a driveshaft loop. This was against my
cousin's (TheBrain) recommendations, but I had heard good things about FFP from other guys on
the boards.


The first round with them seemed to go alright. Keith obviously knows quite a bit about LS1s,
and we talked about the install, and how he'd have the clutch flywheel balanced be fore
installing it. Cool. The main problem we ran into was delays in getting the parts installed,
which mainly just cost me time off work to get rides down from Chico.


The day I went to pick up the car, it wasn't done yet, so I hung out at the shop and waited.
The only apparent problem at the time was a soft brake pedal (which I attibuted to the line
lock), and some vibration in the tranny/shifter at high (>3500) rpms. Fine, no biggie. I didn't
know if the lightweight flywheel caused this or the new clutch or what.


Over the next few months, there was a growing 'chatter' sound - which I thought was just the
SPEC stg 3 (Xpad), so it didn't really occur to me that there was any problems brewing...until
the day this 'chatter' turned into a full on grind.


I took the TA to a local tranny shop, and went for a long test drive with a mechanic there. He
told me that the problem was most likely a worn pilot bearing, and that the most common cause
of this on a car with 26k miles was improper installation - like the tranny was slipped in by
torquing the bolts down when it wasn't aligned just right.


Then I called SPEC, told them the story. They thought it may also be a flywheel bolts backing
out. They said the pilot bearing they use is the same GM bearing.
Then I called Keith and asked him how we should proceed. He said to bring the car in, and if
the problem was theirs, they'd make it right. They'd take pictures of everything and send them
to me so I could see exactly what was going on in there. Cool.


I brought the car down on Monday, Dec 20. They were going to tear it down on Tuesday morning
and let me know. Tuesday goes by, no call. I call back on Wednesday, they say they'll get to it on Thursday. Fine.


Thursday brings a call around noon from one of the mechanics at FFP. he said the pilot bearing
has 'disintegrated' and that the input shaft was marred because of this, and may have excessive
play. He was going to call Tremec, check the tolerances for end play, and get back to me in
case the tranny needed to be rebuilt so we could fix everything before buttoning it back up. He
was also going to take pictures.


At this point, I am not too happy about the potential of a trans rebuild, but what can I do. I called back later that day to check on the status, and they say the car is done and that I can pick it up in the morning. Sorry, no pictures.


Friday morning I get to the shop around 9:20am as they are opening. I asked Keith about the
tranny and he said that it needed to be repaired. I asked him what was going to keep the car from chewing through another pilot bearing now that the input shaft is chewed up and has
excessive play...he says "nothing." Then I said, "why did your guys put the car back together then? We talked about getting the trans fixed if it needed it." He said I could bring the car back in and they wouldn't charge for pulling the tranny. And I got my bill for $354.


Keith claimed that the problem (pilot bearing) was caused by a problem with the transmission.
However the transmission was fine when I took the car in the first time with 22k miles (now has 26k). Something isn't adding up, but I am not pressing the "I'm not paying" issue because by this time I just tired of getting the run-around.


I go out to my car and notice that the beauty ring around the line lock switch is missing (and
the nut is on backwards)...and the electric cutout switch in the ash try is in crooked, and
that the ash try no longer fits in the console, and that my shift light cover is missing
(always sits in the ash try), and that my new passenger tint is scratched. WTF?


I go back in and ask about these things, 15 minutes goes by while the guys check the car and
the shop for the pieces. The beauty ring was the only piece found. I asked Keith about the
tint. He tells the other mechanics "trannys jump up and scratch tint all of the time" - the
guys laugh. I'm not laughing. I tell Keith that it looks like a few 'teeth' marks - like from
pliers. He says no, I'm wrong, and that the tint was scratched when I got here.


They all go back inside. I check the car again for the missing pieces, and wait outside. 5
minutes later I go inside and they are all having a little meeting. Through the glass door I watch as one of the mechanics is motioning to Keith like he is pivoting with something large in his hands. I tought, "cool, he is explaining how my tint got scratched," and walk inside.


Immediately, the conversation stops and the guys are motioned to leave the room.
I asked Keith what was up, and he lit into me. "You're trying to get something for nothing" - to which I reply, 'I just want my stuff done right'.
Then he proceeds to call me a "f^&*in loser", this and that, not very pretty. I tell him that I feel like I'm getting screwed. Then he takes a few steps towards me and puffs himself up before
saying "Do you wanna do something about it". This guy is in my face challenging me to fight.


Super. I tell him "do you really want to go to jail over this when I'm being screwed?"
Doesn't seem to phase him. I take a few steps back, open the door, and stand in the doorway. He continues to come towards me, cursing me, and tells me to get the f@ck off his property. So I
leave. No threats to him, no more arguments. I don't want to spend the rest of Christmas Eve in
Jail or the hospital.


Witnesses to this at this point are:
A customer with a red corvette (drag prepped)
My wife
My sister
I don't know if any of the other mechanics saw any of this.


So, I've paid Keith twice for replacing my clutch, and so far I've gotten nothing but trouble, and a damaged transmission. The clutch pedal is really weak now, and the first time I shifted at 5000 rpms it stuck to the floor. I wonder if they even bled the lines. And still no
pictures.


Keith @ FFP is the most disrespectful business owner I have ever dealt with. I expect this kind
of behavior at the bars in Chico, but not out of someone who I've paid twice to do work that
hasn't been done correctly once.

I am really sorry to hear what happened to you. I fill for you. I am a store manager for a goodyear. I think you should take this up with bar. I can get a name and number for you to call. Bar is by far great for customers that have been screwed by shops like this. Let me know if you want the info I will get it for you. I would if I where you. I also would never do business with them hearing this story.

Yes, I would appreciate that info 1 BLOWN V8 - thank you.
-Aaron

take the bastard to court. this is why i do my own work. i hate being in that situation. i needed an exhaust done, obviously i couldnt do it myself so i brought it to strickly performance. similar results. what the hell is this world coming to. just a bunch of asshole people that dont care for their jobs. sorry to hear about your situation.

Wow. That totally surprises me. Keith was a really nice guy when i needed to talk to him he helped me out alot. We sat down for a good hour to discuss my car. Blows my mind really. But if he did what you said he did, take him to court with your proof. Don't let him intimidate you if he is in the wrong. Good luck, hope this get's settled soon and painlessly but i just don't see that happening.

Let us know what happens becuase i was considering having them do some work on my car. All shop owners need to understand, this stuff does get around, and it WILL effect your business.

Yes, it surprised me as well. I've talked with him for a couple hours here and there about my car. But after a couple of shoddy installs, things change I guess.

That sucks man...I hope everything works out for you.
E-mail him this link and have him give his side, I'd love to hear it :D

Dude, what will this do for you? Your posting everywhere about this crap, your only posting your side. and the people that know both sides say you need to grow up. Do you think posting everywhere will hurt his buisness? uh, fat chance, because people know Keith, his shop, and how he handles his buisness. If you dont like it, learn how to do things yourself, or go somewhere else we dont care. Hey other posters, do you think a succesfull buisness man and shop would have gotten succesfull if they REALLY treated everyone like what he said?????...just something to think about ;)

Dude, what will this do for you? Your posting everywhere about this crap, your only posting your side. and the people that know both sides say you need to grow up. Do you think posting everywhere will hurt his buisness? uh, fat chance, because people know Keith, his shop, and how he handles his buisness. If you dont like it, learn how to do things yourself, or go somewhere else we dont care. Hey other posters, do you think a succesfull buisness man and shop would have gotten succesfull if they REALLY treated everyone like what he said?????...just something to think about ;)

Fuckin' A!

To everyone reading this.. Im asking you to not to form an opinion without Keiths side of the story... I mean go ahead if you want but in all honesty it isnt fair to FFP. Keith has documented, and signed in some cases, paperwork from soslo regarding this situation. Childishly flaming FFP like this is not going to make anything better for you, soslo.

Id also like to point out that Keith @ FFP is a stand up guy.... he is one of the BEST IN THE BUSINESS! The thing is Keith is a NO BULLSHIT person.. he will tell you like it is and apparently some people cant handle the upfront type of person Keith is... personally I respect Keith for being like that... apparently some people, like soslo, will get butthurt cause someone isnt willing to tell them what they want to hear instead of the upfront and honest truth.

So let me get this straight. You're pissed because your tranny has too much end play and took out your pilot bearing and you got charged for the R&R. The beauty rings was a 2 minute fix, and the ashtray wouldn't stay put because he refused to use JB Weld on it (like it was before). Not sure about the tint.

After hearing both sides, it seems that you just wanted to throw a shit fit to get out of paying for the R&R on the tranny.

Keith is small guy, and by no means intimidating. If he actually puffed up and called you a loser, you should have stepped up and took him out instead of becoming a little Internet crybaby on every car site you could find.

Like I said on another site, FFP has done a lot of work on my car. They have put a couple scratches on my car (it happens), but always pointed them out to me and offered to pay the detailing costs.

Go back and play on the Ford boards with your 16 year old friends.

The bad part about this is that it does affect bissness.

Hence the reason for all his "cut and paste posting" If it cost him 2 coustomers it has cost mroe than the cost of fixing it right.

This is what,....the third site that I personaly know of were he has posted the exact same thread 100% word for word.

Any of tyou that have put a clutch in a car can figure out the validity of his complaints.

Keith is small guy, and by no means intimidating. If he actually puffed up and called you a loser, you should have stepped up and took him out instead of becoming a little Internet crybaby on every car site you could find.

:eyes:
Look, there are 3 sides to a story, his, the store owners', and the truth.
I think it's sad that there are people like you that think this way...yea, kick his ass. Besides the fact that almost everyone in this country is so fuckin sue happy, fighting won't solve anything....so let's say he kicks Keith's ass, then what? I bet Keith will want to fix his car then :eyes:

He has the right to voice his opinion, so does Keith. I'm not taking sides here, that's why I said Keith should give his side...then everyone can decide for themselves if the shop is reputable or not...what's the big deal?

Otherside of the story, as posted on our club message board, for those who like to believe every god damn thing they read...

I was not at a computor until today because mine at home is not working right now.
I’m sorry people bring their personal problems to a public forum when they could have been resolved in private providing they want to. I have always liked the “NorCal” forum better than the rest because it was a family oriented place & was not spammed by solicitors or people bashing one another or businesses.
I will start by saying this, anyone who has dealt with me before knows that I try my best to be rational and fair with all my customers. I take care of our mistakes at our expense and give the customer the benefit of the doubt if the situation could go either way. I will state the facts of the situation and let it go at that. I will not waste my time defending myself in a situation where it could have been taken care of at the shop. Also where the facts are drastically construed and one sided when I should be spending my time working on loyal customers cars, this is very unproductive. I would also like to thank those who have supported us as well as those that have not passed judgment before they have heard both sides.
1) We installed a customer supplied “SPEC” clutch on 6/09/04 with a new roller pilot bearing (mileage was 22,153). The car came in on 12/20/04 with 26,934 miles a difference of over 6 months and just shy of 5,000 miles since the original install. Customer told us he would be coming back to Sacramento on Friday 12/20 for other reasons & wanted to pick it up then to save a trip.
2) Here is a disclaimer that the customer signed off on just prior to us originally installing the clutch (Have signed copy on file): “In the past we have had bad luck with the clutch system you brought us to install (unable to match balance which would cause severe vibrations if not balanced). We are going to have a machine shop match balance the assemble provided it will balance. Either way we are not liable for any problems you may have with the performance or vibrations associated with the clutch system. There is NO WARRANTY. Also the clutch needs 500 miles of normal stop and go driving before any hard driving is done. By signing below I (customer’s name) understand this.”
3) Customer told us he thought the noise was a bolt rubbing on the bell housing because we did not tighten it properly.
4) I told the customer before he brought the car into us that if we found a mistake on our part that there would be no charge. I also told him that if we found that the problem did not lie with our work that he would be responsible for the estimate repair bill in which he signed.
5) I drove the car through the parking lot before we started to work on the car and in my opinion a majority of the noise was from the transmission with a slight occasional noise from what I felt might be the clutch assemble so we proceeded to remove the tranny.
6) The problem turned out to be that the pilot bearing had started to come apart due to the excessive end play in the end put shaft.
7) We called the customer (12/23 in the early afternoon) to inform him of our findings; digital pictures were taken & informed him of what we felt needed to be done in order to prevent the problem from reoccurring. Customer declined on having the tranny repaired so our only option is to install a new pilot bearing and send him on his way.
8) The customer came in the shop with a bad attitude & made the comment that now he was going to have to pay the R&R of the tranny again when he decided to have it fixed. I said yes. He then stated that he wished we had told him that the tranny needed to be repaired before we reinstalled it (We did). He proceeded to be rude and complain about having to pay the bill so I told him that if he wanted to leave the car with us that we would R&R the tranny again at no additional charge (He would be responsible for only one R&R charge plus the pilot bearing) but he was to take care of getting the repaired.
9) The customer proceeded to leave, but after about 4 minutes he then came back in. His complaints now were that the 2 beauty rings/nuts that hold the toggle switches (Cut-out & line lock) in place had the wrong nut on the wrong switch (one was black & one was silver). He also accused us of scratching the window tint on the passenger side window. By this time I was running short on patience because it was obvious that no matter what I did the customer was not going to be happy unless we did work for FREE. I went out and looked at the beauty rings and asked Billy to switch the two and asked him if he possibly scratched the window because if we did then I would make it right. I explained to Billy that I would not be mad over apx. a $40.00 repair but I wanted be fair. He assured me he did not do it as well did Issac. I myself had a hard time seeing that we could have done it considering all the work was done from the underside of the car.
10) The customer and I went back in the office in which the customer proceeded to complain about the window and him having to pay the bill. I once again offered to R&R the tranny again at no additional charge if he left the car with us & he got the tranny repaired (this was done not because we were in the wrong but to simply try to make peace and prevent an ordeal such as this thread from arising). The customer said NO but that he felt he should be compensated because of the beauty rings, window tint & because we originally told him we were going to do the work for free (NEVER did I say this. Also then why did he sign a work order that showed a charge for the R&R in the event we found no error on our labor install). I said what compensation are you looking for, Response; “Not having to pay any of his bill”, I told him this was ridiculous. I told him that if we had done lets say work on his motor where we had to lean over his fender and his accusation was scratches on the fenders then I would be more inclined to believe him. I also said that lets say he came in corrigibly and paid his bill then came back and politely told me that he noticed his window tint was scratched that the whole picture would come across differently. At this point in time it was obvious that no matter what we did he was not going to be happy because he was looking for something for nothing and because of this he had little credibility with me. We were getting no where with the situation so I told him to leave the shop. We both exchanged words and I again asked him to leave several more times. When he continued disrespecting me in my business and would not leave I then proceeded to walk around the other side of the counter where he was standing and at this point he darted out the door like a bullet and remarked do you want to go to jail. This was probably because he was running his mouth off but felt he was unable to back it up. Either way I will be respectful if the other party does the same but when you act as the person did then yes I will tell you to leave and not to come back because the hassle and stress is not worth the energy it takes.
Once again thank you, sorry for the BS & hope everyone one has a safe and happy new years.

And for the record, I believe this is the funniest part of the story.

We both exchanged words and I again asked him to leave several more times. When he continued disrespecting me in my business and would not leave I then proceeded to walk around the other side of the counter where he was standing and at this point he darted out the door like a bullet and remarked do you want to go to jail.

:lol:

1) We installed...
True

2) Here is a disclaimer that the customer signed off on ...
This is true. I signed the disclaimer. I also paid to have FFP take the clutch/flywheel to a machine shop and have everything match balanced before being installed. And the clutch was fine. This wasn't the problem.

3) Customer told us he thought the noise was a bolt rubbing on the bell housing because we did not tighten it properly.

True - that is what SPEC said might be the problem. I also told them that I took it to another shop who told me the pilot bearing was installed incorrectly.

4) I told the customer before ...
True


6) The problem turned out to be that the pilot bearing had started to come apart due to the excessive end play in the end put shaft of the transmission. This excessive end play will chew up the pilot bearing.
I say false because there wasn't excessive endplay before the first install (at 22,153 miles).

7) ...Customer declined on having the tranny repaired (Recommendation was to have a tranny shop open it up and repair what ever else they felt was needed in addition to fixing the input shaft end play that caused the problem) so our only option is to install a new pilot bearing and send him on his way, this was his option not ours.
Completely false. I called repeatedly to check on the situation. One of the mechanics informed me that the trans may need to be rebuilt, but that he was going to call Tremec. He was also compare the endplay with a brand new T56 sitting in the shop. When I called later that night, the car was already put back together.

8) The customer came in the shop with a bad attitude & made the comment that now he was going to have to pay the R&R of the tranny again when he decided to have it fixed. I said yes. He then stated that he wished we had told him that the tranny needed to be repaired before we reinstalled it (We did). He proceeded to be rude and complain about having to pay the bill so I told him that if he wanted to leave the car with us that we would R&R the tranny again at no additional charge (He would be responsible for only one R&R charge plus the pilot bearing) but he was to take care of getting the repaired.
Again, false. I came in at 9:20 - right after you waled in Keith. You sat at your desk and did paperwork for 5-10 minutes while I read magazines at your counter. You printed an invoice for $354 and I signed it. This was before I even saw the car.
Did I ever say I wouldn't pay? No. What I said was, "How was the endplay?" And you said it was bad and that the tranny would need to be rebuilt. To which I replied, "Why did you put it back together then? I talked to a mechanic last night who said he wouldn't put it back together if it needed to be rebuilt."
Believe it or not - I wanted the car to be fixed correctly in the first place, not get bandaids over and over.

9) The customer proceeded to leave, but after about 4 minutes he then came back in. His complaints now were that the 2 beauty rings/nuts that hold the toggle switches (Cut-out & line lock) in place had the wrong nut on the wrong switch (one was black & one was silver). He also accused us of scratching the window tint on the passenger side window.
Yes, because I hadn't even seen the car yet. I was going to cut my losses and get everything repaired BY A DIFFERENT SHOP AT MY OWN COST.
But when I saw pieces missing and both switch re-installed incorrectly, plus scratched tint - it was icing on the cake.

10) The customer and I went back in the office in which the customer proceeded to complain about the window and him having to pay the bill. I once again offered to R&R the tranny again at no additional charge if he left the car with us & he got the tranny repaired (this was done not because we were in the wrong but to simply try to make peace and prevent an ordeal such as this thread from arising). The customer said NO but that he felt he should be compensated because of the beauty rings, window tint & because we originally told him we were going to do the work for free (NEVER did I say this.
The only thing I asked for was compensation for the tint. You offered to have your guys reinstall the switches, and I said no because it isn't difficult, I can do it my self. The point is that this stuff should have been done right in the first place. You did offer to give me free labor for re-dropping the tranny. By now I didn't want your shop to continue working on the car.

Also then why did he sign a work order that showed a charge for the R&R in the event we found no error on our labor install).
Because you wouldn't check the car if I didn't.

I said what compensation are you looking for, Response; “Not having to pay any of his bill”, I told him this was ridiculous.
False. I said "I just want it done right"



I also said that lets say he came in corrigibly and paid his bill then came back and politely told me that he noticed his window tint was scratched that the whole picture would come across differently.
I did do this. Don't you see? I was sick about the whole situation and didn't want your shop to keep working on the car. You always come across as nice "sure, we'll tear the car down for free if it's our problem" - then the next thing I know I'm paying for it.

We were getting no where with the situation so I told him to leave the shop.
You did ask me to leave the shop...AFTER (in front of another customer:
1. telling me I needed to learn to tune my own car
2. repeatedly calling me a F&*k'n loser
3. coming at me with your arms out and asking "you wanna do something about it?" (this is when I asked him if he wanted to go to jail)

As soon as told told me to leave, I did. I didn't say anything to you afterwards.


This was probably because he was running his mouth off but felt he was unable to back it up.
Nice jab. It's these kind of little comments that help to show people your true colors. These are the kind of comments that I'm sure the Bureau of Automotive Repair likes to see from all of the 'reputable' shops.

This is getting funy now!!!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Can't we all just play nice?

I would like to thank who ever it was that posted my side of the story. I am very busy tuning vehicles and do not have time to chase him from board to board. I have exhausted my efforts on trying to resolve this issue, I even Pm'ed the following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFedPerformance
We obviously do not see things from the same view point but either way we got off to a bad start. Forget the finger pointing & let me know if you would like to resolve this issue. I will be civil as long as you give me the same respect and will venture into this peacefully and honestly. I will be willing to R&R the tranny at no charge, once the tranny has be reviewed by a tranny shop specialist then I will make a determination on reimbursing you for the 2nd R&R based on what his findings are as to the cause of the problem. We have very few unhappy customers but I all ways try to make a peaceful part if at all possible. Please feel free to give me a call at 1-916-331-1611 if you are serious about trying to resolve this issue.

As you can see I tried to resolve this issue several times to which he declined. What more can a business do in an attempt to be fair.

I like to hear about things like this because it needs to be brought up if a place does you wrong just as if they do everything perfect. Not going to say who is right or wrong because only they know what actually happend. But IMO something had to happen for this post to even have been started. I hope you guys work on whatever happen and call a truce.

I like to hear about things like this because it needs to be brought up if a place does you wrong just as if they do everything perfect.

Thing is there isnt one shop that does everything perfect, but I know what you mean. You cant please everyone.... and if someone gets miffed about something the only thing you can do is try to make it right. With that said FFP has tried to resolve the issue. Hopefully people that read this will understand these things do happen... and notice the fact that FFP made the effort to make it right.

Just thought I'd share the rest of the PM with the class...

Originally Posted by ForceFedPerformance
We obviously do not see things from the same view point but either way we got off to a bad start. Forget the finger pointing & let me know if you would like to resolve this issue. I will be sivel as long as you give me the same respect and will venture into this peacefully and honestly. I will be willing to R&R the tranny at no charge, once the tranny has be reviewed by a tranny shop specialist then I will make a determination on reimbursing you for the 2nd R&R based on what his findings are as to the cause of the problem. We have very few unhappy customers but I all ways try to make a peaceful part if at all possible. Please feel free to give me a call at 1-916-331-1611 if you are serious about trying to resolve this issue.




Hi Keith, I too want to resolve this issue.
Yesterday I filed a case with the Bureau of Automotive Repair. Hopefully that will be a fair way for both of us to take care of this situation without further problems.
-Aaron



Originally Posted by ForceFedPerformance
I am letting you know that if this is the route you chose to take I will respect your decision but my offer will no longer be on the table.



I had already gone through other channels to get this taken care of by the time FFP had contacted me 4 days later.

Cool.. looks like you guys are square then... all is fair. Right on.

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with the B.A.R.
Keith told them a couple lies:
1. That I had performed significant modifications to the car since the clutch install.
Completely untrue. Since the clutch install, I have done:
A. Window Tint
B. New slotted/drilled brake rotors
C. Tuning

2. That I used an inferior clutch.
I didn't realize a SPEC stage 3/Fidanza flywheel setup was inferior.

3. He said that the transmission's input shaft was loose, and that his shop could not have done anything to prevent this problem.

If that is the case then:
A. Why wasn't I told that my 23k mile tranny needed a rebuild when I brought it in the first time?
B. Why didn't he explain to the B.A.R. the causes of input shafts getting chewed up (damaged pilot bearing)
Which would have led to the causes for input bearings to fail: improper installation of transmission

Now he is also unwilling to cooperate with the B.A.R. to find a resolution, so the B.A.R. explained to me that the next steps are:
1. having the tranny removed&examined by a transmission shop; have them document the findings
2. take FFP to court

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with the B.A.R.
Keith told them a couple lies:
1. That I had performed significant modifications to the car since the clutch install.
Completely untrue. Since the clutch install, I have done:
A. Window Tint
B. New slotted/drilled brake rotors
C. Tuning

2. That I used an inferior clutch.
I didn't realize a SPEC stage 3/Fidanza flywheel setup was inferior.

3. He said that the transmission's input shaft was loose, and that his shop could not have done anything to prevent this problem.

If that is the case then:
A. Why wasn't I told that my 23k mile tranny needed a rebuild when I brought it in the first time?
B. Why didn't he explain to the B.A.R. the causes of input shafts getting chewed up (damaged pilot bearing)
Which would have led to the causes for input bearings to fail: improper installation of transmission

Now he is also unwilling to cooperate with the B.A.R. to find a resolution, so the B.A.R. explained to me that the next steps are:
1. having the tranny removed&examined by a transmission shop; have them document the findings
2. take FFP to court


As posted by Keith....

First off, this will be my last post in regards to this issue. I tried to resolve this thing from the beginning and got nowhere. I am now to the point that I am sick of dealing with someone this irrational. There is more to solving complaints than always giving in to someone, its called principal.
I told the person at BAR that my OPINION of the clutch supplied was that they were not so great of a clutch. Secondly they asked why the dealership would not cover this repair under warranty. I explained that the car had been modified to a point that the warranty was voided: modified heads (according to the customer), cam, cut-out, line lock, headers just to name a few). I am not for sure whether the cam was in the car when the clutch was originally installed or not but I did not remember the car running as awful the 1st time in came in (not in regards to the clutch). I do not recall the tranny having the severe issues the 1st time it came in as it did the last time. (note the possibilities of causes below) I told BAR that I originally tried to peacefully resolve the issue before they got involved but now that he has gone to the extreme that he has by slandering the shops name on various boards, manipulating the facts, & his lack of willingness to be cooperative that I no longer cared to deal with the customer. I feel that this will lead to further issues & that the only way the customer would ever be happy is if we paid for a new tranny & install even if we where found to not be at fault. Even then there is no way to say he would not continue slandering us on the board, so what is there to gain.
NOTE: Also the pilot bearing was still intact, not completely disintigrated, but the cage had started coming apart and ONE needle bearing was not in line with the others but the pilot bearing was still COMPLETE & IN PLACE. The input shaft was NOT able to wobble around in the backside of the crank, the bearing was still complete. If the pilot bearing was damaged when installing the tranny then it would not have lasted as long as it did, almost 5K miles and 6+ months. Also why would we fight putting in a tranny when it would take less time & effort to use the alignment tools we have & let the tranny slide in place smoothly. The tranny has internal issues besides the input shaft. The tranny made a bad howling noise when in gear and driving as well as the tranny sometimes was rough going into gear and popped out of 1st several times. These issues can not be caused by installing a tranny for a clutch R&R. Now if the pilot bearing was completely gone and there was NO support on the input shaft then maybe.
There is no way for anyone on this board, including myself, to know if a person has driven his car hard, beat on it, missed shifts etc. Why would one go to the extreme effort and money to do the mods that he has done to his car if he is not going to use them? There is no way to say 100% for sure which one of us is wrong or maybe it could be a combination of the two of us, at least I can admit that and offered to find a solution & was willing to take a 3rd parties diagnosis for cause of the problems (tranny shop). I think that maybe reputation speaks for itself so the likely hood that I caused the problem is pretty slim and that if I did, I would have taken care of it. Bottom line is he needs to grow up, take responsibilty for his actions, quit looking to find scape goats for his personal issues and just pay to get the car fixed.

This could have been avoided if he had taken my offer, yet he declined and felt BAR would have done more. Now that BAR's decision was not to his liking he is back to bashing FFP on the boards. This just goes to show that he would not be happy unless someone else came out of pocket for a new tranny he wasn't willing to rightfully pay for. For the amount of time this has taken for both of us he could have already been on the road with a fixed tranny and a couple free R&Rs. Its time for him to take some responsibility.

Maybe he should sell the car, buy a Geo or Kia & leave it stock so you will have a factory warranty. Just a suggestion.

First off, this will be my last post in regards to this issue. I tried to resolve this thing from the beginning and got nowhere.
Sure didn't seem that way when you mocked me, threatened me, cursed me and threw me out of your shop on Christmas Eve. In front of your mechanics, a customer, my sister, and wife.


Secondly they asked why the dealership would not cover this repair under warranty.
I explained that the car had been modified to a point that the warranty was voided

I told Debbie the same thing - that my modifications would have voided the factory warranty.

...warranty was voided: modified
heads (according to the customer), cam, cut-out, line lock, headers just to name a few).
Just to name a few? You named more than I have ;) Mostly right. I don't have headers. I think your major problem is that you exxagerate the facts until they seem to back you up.

I am
not for sure whether the cam was in the car when the clutch was originally installed or not but
I did not remember the car running as awful the 1st time in came in (not in regards to the
clutch).
Yes, all of the engine work was done (minus tuning) before I brought the car to you.

I do not recall the tranny having the severe issues the 1st time it came in as it did the last time.
Because it didn't have any of the issues. The reason the car ran so crappily is because you could barely get it in gear, and it "grinded" terribly when trying to shift.

I told BAR that I originally tried to
peacefully resolve the issue before they got involved
You didn't contact me after I left the shop (Friday) until after I posted online (Sunday) and AFTER I already talked with the BAR (Monday). How can you possibly say that?

NOTE: Also the pilot bearing was still intact, not completely disintigrated, but the cage had started coming apart and ONE needle bearing was not in line with the others but the pilot bearing was still COMPLETE & IN PLACE.


That is funny for a couple of reasons:
1. Your mechanic told me the pilot bearing had 'disentigrated' - his word, not mine.
2. Your mechanic told me the input shaft was "chewed" up because of this.
3. You charged me .5 hour of labor to 'remove the pieces'

Bottom line is he needs to grow up, take responsibilty for his actions, quit looking to find scape goats for his personal issues and just pay to get the car fixed.

How many times should I do this? I've paid you twice already.

Maybe he should sell the car, buy a Geo or Kia & leave it stock so you will have a factory warranty. Just a suggestion.
I wasn't concerned about the factory warranty. My concern is when other people try to 'get one over' on me.

:lol:

:lol:

WTF is so funny ?

WTF is so funny ?

Dont worry about it.. I wasnt laughing at you.

Honestly soslo.
U need to stop acting like a kid. Just cause U are trying to get something for nothing, don't get mad at a shop for not following suit.

I mean honestly son......... U think just cause U go on the "Internet" and make a "Few Phone calls" ur gonna ruin his business???????



Let me answer for U...........NO. Ur not.


Keith has been doing business for a long time now. And he more then likely has run into quite a few people like u. DO u think if keith really didn't take care of his customers, would he be able to move the shop to a bigger building????


so why don't u just take his offer, and grow up. He tried to make it right, and u denied his offer. so just nut it up, swallow ur pride, and shake hands.

Honestly soslo.
U need to stop acting like a kid. Just cause U are trying to get something for nothing, don't get mad at a shop for not following suit.

Do I know you sscamaro387? It blows me away that a lot of the NorCal guys are acting like this. When I lived in Fremont and went out to dinner w/you guys and went to GTGs, there was never a problem. Ask Chewy, Mike, Matt, F8L, Jennifer - maybe even Rick remembers me. People that know me also know that I am not some punk kid looking to cause trouble.

Then suddenly - I happen to be one of the few people who have a bad experience with FFP, and LOOK OUT - somebody is out to ruin the shop's business. Give me a break.


I mean honestly son......... U think just cause U go on the "Internet" and make a "Few Phone calls" ur gonna ruin his business???????

This is one of the dumbest things I've read online. You are quoting words for what reason? To make me look bad. Grow up man.


Keith has been doing business for a long time now. And he more then likely has run into quite a few people like u. DO u think if keith really didn't take care of his customers, would he be able to move the shop to a bigger building????


Look, like I told F8L - I'm sure Keith does good work for a majority of his customers, or he wouldn't be in business. I'm not arguing anything against that. What I'm saying is - it didn't happen with me. Get over it.


so why don't u just take his offer, and grow up. He tried to make it right, and u denied his offer. so just nut it up, swallow ur pride, and shake hands.
In case you didn't read what I had to say in my couple of main posts/replies - he didn't try to make it right OK? He kept saying things after the fact when they meant nothing. And his word means nothing to me. So why would I want to go back and trust someone who has given me no reason to?

And drop the condescending crap, the "son", and the "U" - it makes you look like the kid.

First, when you R&R a stock transmission; it all of a sudden should not have any "excessive end play" on the input shaft.
Second, A new clutch and flywheel combo should not have to "rebalanced". Is this some kind of "made in China Crap" or what.
Just sounds like a bad install to me and the speed shop should be liable.

It blows me away that a lot of the NorCal guys are acting like this. When I lived in Fremont and went out to dinner w/you guys and went to GTGs, there was never a problem.

Why are you blown away? Cause some of us are willing to defend FFP?

What you really should be blown away by is the people, like most the Ford members on CAFords, that are so bandwagon happy that theyll say anything to look "cool" and "agree" with you. Youve gotta admit most of those fools are out of line.



Then suddenly - I happen to be one of the few people who have a bad experience with FFP, and LOOK OUT - somebody is out to ruin the shop's business. Give me a break.


Youre not out to ruin FFPs business? :lol: Fooled me... how many boards did you make it a point to "cut and paste" to and I think in one case one thread in lounge and another in the CA forum.


In case you didn't read what I had to say in my couple of main posts/replies - he didn't try to make it right OK? He kept saying things after the fact when they meant nothing. And his word means nothing to me. So why would I want to go back and trust someone who has given me no reason to?



Keith didnt try to make it ok? I find that real funny... I saw the PMs, hell you posted them.. Keith didnt care that you made a threat with BAR or went web board happy and posted what you did. Even AFTER you mentioned you already persued BAR, in your threads, and slandering FFP he still offered to resolve the problem. If you think he was offering cause you mentioned BAR or cause of your posts then you are sadly mistaken. He did it simply cause he wanted to make things right regardless of what you had done or said.... you couldnt reverse your posts on the boards.. and you couldnt retract your BAR threat.. so if he really didnt want to fix it then why the hell would he?

Why are you blown away? Cause some of us are willing to defend FFP?

No - I'm blown away because no matter what anyone else says, you've already made up your mind. You refuse to believe that there is a possibility of FFP messing something up.


Youve gotta admit most of those fools are out of line.
I agree - some of the guys said stupid stuff about retaliation. And if you noticed I made a post right after that crap started coming out telling people not to do anything to Keith, FFP, or the cars there




Youre not out to ruin FFPs business? :lol: Fooled me... how many boards did you make it a point to "cut and paste" to and I think in one case one thread in lounge and another in the CA forum.


Would you rather me re-write the same thing in 4 different ways? Or would you rather me not share my experience with the 2 regional sections on national boards, and 2 local boards? All of which I read/post to.


Even AFTER you mentioned you already persued BAR, in your threads, and slandering FFP he still offered to resolve the problem.

You are wrong. Keith retracted his offer once he found out that I had already pursued the BAR. Do you want me to cut/paste that post again?



If you think he was offering cause you mentioned BAR or cause of your posts then you are sadly mistaken. He did it simply cause he wanted to make things right regardless of what you had done or said.... you couldnt reverse your posts on the boards.. and you couldnt retract your BAR threat.. so if he really didnt want to fix it then why the hell would he?
I assume he was offering because of the bad press. You need to get the timeline straight, Avengeance. It's getting silly trying to explain this to you.
Everything went down on Friday. I origianlly posted my experience when I got home on Sunday. He didn't contact me (via PM) until Tuesday. And he didn't PM me until after he posted, and then I replied again.

What part of that makes you think he wanted to make things right with me out of the goodness of his heart? He probably just wanted to get this thing over with. Me too!

Here's the kicker - I didn't want to work with him directly at this point. I didn't want my car back at his shop again. We didn't hug before I left the shop on Friday.
Get that through your head - I wanted to bring in a third party to help resolve this. Why is that such a crime? You make it sound like I am trying to drag him to a murder trial.

Well, Keith didn't want a third party. So he retracted his offers. Sounds like he really wanted to help.

We can keep posting back and forth if you want, or you can PM me, or both. Believe it or not I'd be glad to talk to you more about this.

No - I'm blown away because no matter what anyone else says, you've already made up your mind. You refuse to believe that there is a possibility of FFP messing something up.



I never said that.. Ive even mentioned the fact that only 99% of their customers had a good experience. I know that theres a hand full of people that havent had good experiences, including your cousin (?). In this line of business you cannot please everyone. I KNOW theres a possibility that they may have done wrong.. I just happen to doubt it and if so its been blown out of proportion a tad.

You are wrong. Keith retracted his offer once he found out that I had already pursued the BAR. Do you want me to cut/paste that post again?

I assume he was offering because of the bad press. You need to get the timeline straight, Avengeance. It's getting silly trying to explain this to you.
Everything went down on Friday. I origianlly posted my experience when I got home on Sunday. He didn't contact me (via PM) until Tuesday. And he didn't PM me until after he posted, and then I replied again.


I know he retracted.. and Ill tell you EXACLTLY why he did. Just for the simple fact that IF you two end up in a legal battle and you happen to lose you cant come back and say "Hey.. I want to take you up on that offer."

From a business standpoint I think you can understand that. Its NOT cause he didnt want to fix this. Its actually silly to think you cant figure that out.


What part of that makes you think he wanted to make things right with me out of the goodness of his heart? He probably just wanted to get this thing over with. Me too!


You obviously didnt get the point of my last post.. Im saying he did this "out of the goodness of his heart" for the simple fact that the damage you had done at that point was done... him offering to help find a solution wasnt going to reverse the fact that you were threatening with BAR or the fact that you plastered what "happened" on several boards. So yes.. Keith GENUINELY wanted to find a solution... you decided you didnt want to go that route so he retracted his offer for reasons I stated above. Its simple really. So if you cant see that he offered that help sincerely after me thouroughly walking you through it... then I dont think youll ever get it.


Get that through your head - I wanted to bring in a third party to help resolve this. Why is that such a crime? You make it sound like I am trying to drag him to a murder trial.


Nothing wrong with that at all..



Well, Keith didn't want a third party. So he retracted his offers. Sounds like he really wanted to help.

We can keep posting back and forth if you want, or you can PM me, or both. Believe it or not I'd be glad to talk to you more about this.

Keith actually did offer a 3rd party opinion, remember the part about bringing in a outside tranny shop to diagnose the problem? Hell if you wouldve played your cards right you couldve had BAR do their thing and at the same time had your car at a tranny shop being diagnosed knowing that if they proved FFP wrong you wouldve had Keith backing up his word to help you out.



We can keep posting back and forth if you want, or you can PM me, or both. Believe it or not I'd be glad to talk to you more about this.

I dont mind making this public.. I really dont think there is anything else to put on the table though.. if you cant get what I said through your head then I dont know how to make it easier for you to understand.

pardon my ignorance, I dont live in California, but I have a real hard time believing that a reputable business person would call you a fucking loser in public like that unless you had already gone way beyond the bounds of an acceptable customer-style interaction, and into threats yourself.

I hope you guys can fix this but I gotta say I'm with FFP on this. I've heard nothing but good things about them. anyway goodluck man with whatever your car needs to have done.

Disclosure: I do not know the person that started this thread and had not seen his call sign before seeing this thread. I can in no way speak of his current situation. However, that being said, "IT, IN NO WAY SURPRISES ME AT ALL."

Facts:

1) FORCE FED PERFORMANCE IS IN MULTIPLE LAWSUITS AT THIS TIME UNLESS THEY HAVE RECENTLY SETTLED A FEW OF THEM. Check Lexus.

2) Bone Process Service. The only process server, in Yuba City, stopped by that location at least five times in the last year for at least four clients, to their recollection. This was according to Bone Process Service, which is run and owned by a very nice older lady. Feel free to call them.

3) FFP has had multiple customer complaints due to their negligence and lack of experience. Verified by both actual, written and verbal corespondence that I have in my possession from multiple owners.

4) They have damaged the exterior of at least six cars in the last year alone. Verified by both written and verbal corespondence.

5) During the time I have known, Mr. Fetcher has, "bad mouthed," at least three other tuner's in the presence of myself and a witness. Some of these tuner's were professionals when he was wearing diapers.

6) According to him, in presence of myself and a witness, he has served jail time for, "assualt."

My Personal Opinion

1) He is absulotely a liar.
2) He is no more than a , "Thief."
3) Character, from scale of 0-10. He is big zero in my opinion.
4) Opinion regarding his so called overhyped experience on scale of 0-10. I give him a, Two. This guy is full of crp..
5) If received $50,000 in free modification money to use on another car and had to use the services of, "Force Fed Performance," to obtain the funds, I would not do it. The liability in time, frustration and various others matters dealing with them would easily outweigh any economic/enjoyment advantage. I would rate my experience with them as a -10.
6) I have found Mr. Fetcher to be particularly aggressive and combative in some of my past conversations with him. In fact, according to him, again, in front a witness, this has gotten him in trouble of at least two occasions.

Further, I think that his combative and vocally abraisive nature stems from the fact, that he is the size of a runt, "Chihuahua."

THIS MY FIRST AND LAST POST ON THIS THREAD. 1) I AM NOT OPENING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS PARTICULAR POST and 2) I WILL BE RESPONDING TO ANY COMMENTS. It will be interesting to see if any more information comes forth regarding ones actual experiences with FFP.

lol..I think I'll stay away from FFP.

Looks like the real truth is coming out now...

wow.. :emb:

Well this is shitty..Im in the market for tuning too :cry:

Keith May Be A Good Tuner But His Customer Service Sucks. He Takes On Too Much Work At One Time. I Think He Should Just Say No To Some People, And Tell Them He Can't Fit Them In Right Now. Instead Of Taking Your Deposit And Saying Yeah I'll Have Your Car Done In A Week Or So.

Please note: I don't know soslo or his car.

Don't know of the resolve but we had a complaint on this company up here in Reno (not soslo). We couldn't help the person as it was out of state and the amount was less than a $1000. We referred him to California's BAR. This was late spring or early summer 2004.

I agree that everybody does make mistakes - it is how you handle them is the key. As an outsider: Looks as if some of the posts are friends/employees of the company in the belittling of soslo. Seems as if Force Fed is trying to justify its shoddy work and put the blame on the consumer (which as I know first hand can certainly be the case at times). In the case of this business...where there is smoke; there is fire. I think I would not have them work on any of my vehicles. I have spent too much hard earned money on my cars to have somebody not watch over my car when it is in their care for mods, repairs or improves.

Scratches, dings, poor workmanship and/or shoddy customer service - don’t you guys in California have another company who can handle this type of work properly?

Please note: I don't know soslo or his car.

Don't know of the resolve but we had a complaint on this company up here in Reno (not soslo). We couldn't help the person as it was out of state and the amount was less than a $1000. We referred him to California's BAR. This was late spring or early summer 2004.

I agree that everybody does make mistakes - it is how you handle them is the key. As an outsider: Looks as if some of the posts are friends/employees of the company in the belittling of soslo. Seems as if Force Fed is trying to justify its shoddy work and put the blame on the consumer (which as I know first hand can certainly be the case at times). In the case of this business...where there is smoke; there is fire. I think I would not have them work on any of my vehicles. I have spent too much hard earned money on my cars to have somebody not watch over my car when it is in their care for mods, repairs or improves.

Scratches, dings, poor workmanship and/or shoddy customer service - don’t you guys in California have another company who can handle this type of work properly?


there aint shit in norcal :(

My opinion: I have had keith partially tune my car, not fully yet because my opti took a dump on the dyno, and had a few exhaust leaks=MY FAULT.

Keith was a really nice, down to earth guy. Made me feel completely comfortable, and was/is extremely knowledgeable. I have zero complaints, as many many of us dont.

BUY AMERICAN...you state all these wonderful facts, and at the end lowball him calling him a runt or should I say Chihuahua? Then you wonder why he has "assualted people" or "been in jail" like you say. Maybe(if the statements made by BUY AMERICAN are true) he has "been to jail" and "Assaulted" people because of jerks and immature people like yourself and their comments. If you and who ever decides to never do business with keith or FFP every again, thats your decision, that sure wont be mine or many other peoples.

And as for the "jail" thing or "Assault" thing, if that were true and you didnt feel comfortable around people like that, you better move to the moon, cause their everywhere. Its how you deal and act now that matters. This is my opinion....

I was just at FFP and Keith didnt seem like a nice,down to earth guy like you say Wicked, just my opinion though ;)

"Nice" to me may be different to you. What I may find offensive or disrespectful, may not be to you, and vice versa. By no way, do I find Keith disrespectful, or rude. Now that I think about it, there are wayyy to many variables :mood that day, your opinion and my opinion. What I am simply stating is that my experience with FFP was excellent, and I dont plan on taking my car elsewhere.

My opinion: I have had keith partially tune my car, not fully yet because my opti took a dump on the dyno, and had a few exhaust leaks=MY FAULT.

Keith was a really nice, down to earth guy. Made me feel completely comfortable, and was/is extremely knowledgeable. I have zero complaints, as many many of us dont.

BUY AMERICAN...you state all these wonderful facts, and at the end lowball him calling him a runt or should I say Chihuahua? Then you wonder why he has "assualted people" or "been in jail" like you say. Maybe(if the statements made by BUY AMERICAN are true) he has "been to jail" and "Assaulted" people because of jerks and immature people like yourself and their comments. If you and who ever decides to never do business with keith or FFP every again, thats your decision, that sure wont be mine or many other peoples.

And as for the "jail" thing or "Assault" thing, if that were true and you didnt feel comfortable around people like that, you better move to the moon, cause their everywhere. Its how you deal and act now that matters. This is my opinion....

:eyes:

I'm not friends with Keith or Billy, nor do I work at FFP. And I'm here to say that FFP has done all the work on my car, and I had no complaints. They worked through some tuning issues that were very frustrating and never said or did anything that would make me question their work. I have paid enough money to FFP for services and parts that I could buy another 4th gen F-body easy. And have never had any reservations about doing it again. All these people bitchin' about shit. If you don't wanna go to FFP don't. Otherwise whats the point of all the BS. Damn paper champions, and Internet warriors all they do is talk talk talk.

If a shop owner has a problem with all his customers then I fault the shop owner.

If a shop owner has plenty of happy customers and a couple of unhappy ones then it's the customer being unreasonable. A shop owner can't please everyone.

Keith has been more than fair and went way beyond the call of duty, bending over backwards to please, and only a few (very small percentage) are still unhappy. That's the facts from several reliable sources and it's not his fault. Keith is very skilled, has plenty of happy customers, and I would not hesitate to take my car to him. As a matter of fact, he is the only one in within a hundred miles that I would trust to properly tune my car.

Brent???

So, do you PERSONALLY know anyone in a current lawsuit with FFP???


Disclosure: I do not know the person that started this thread and had not seen his call sign before seeing this thread. I can in no way speak of his current situation. However, that being said, "IT, IN NO WAY SURPRISES ME AT ALL."

Facts:

1) FORCE FED PERFORMANCE IS IN MULTIPLE LAWSUITS AT THIS TIME UNLESS THEY HAVE RECENTLY SETTLED A FEW OF THEM. Check Lexus.

2) Bone Process Service. The only process server, in Yuba City, stopped by that location at least five times in the last year for at least four clients, to their recollection. This was according to Bone Process Service, which is run and owned by a very nice older lady. Feel free to call them.

3) FFP has had multiple customer complaints due to their negligence and lack of experience. Verified by both actual, written and verbal corespondence that I have in my possession from multiple owners.

4) They have damaged the exterior of at least six cars in the last year alone. Verified by both written and verbal corespondence.

5) During the time I have known, Mr. Fetcher has, "bad mouthed," at least three other tuner's in the presence of myself and a witness. Some of these tuner's were professionals when he was wearing diapers.

6) According to him, in presence of myself and a witness, he has served jail time for, "assualt."

My Personal Opinion

1) He is absulotely a liar.
2) He is no more than a , "Thief."
3) Character, from scale of 0-10. He is big zero in my opinion.
4) Opinion regarding his so called overhyped experience on scale of 0-10. I give him a, Two. This guy is full of crp..
5) If received $50,000 in free modification money to use on another car and had to use the services of, "Force Fed Performance," to obtain the funds, I would not do it. The liability in time, frustration and various others matters dealing with them would easily outweigh any economic/enjoyment advantage. I would rate my experience with them as a -10.
6) I have found Mr. Fetcher to be particularly aggressive and combative in some of my past conversations with him. In fact, according to him, again, in front a witness, this has gotten him in trouble of at least two occasions.

Further, I think that his combative and vocally abraisive nature stems from the fact, that he is the size of a runt, "Chihuahua."

THIS MY FIRST AND LAST POST ON THIS THREAD. 1) I AM NOT OPENING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS PARTICULAR POST and 2) I WILL BE RESPONDING TO ANY COMMENTS. It will be interesting to see if any more information comes forth regarding ones actual experiences with FFP.

I have been using FFP for 3 years. I have taken my 02 z28, 03 Cobra, and now my Z06. I have never had any problems and I have been very happy with there work. It sucks to hear what happened to you. But from my personal expiereince this is by no means the norm.

Disclosure: I do not know the person that started this thread and had not seen his call sign before seeing this thread. I can in no way speak of his current situation. However, that being said, "IT, IN NO WAY SURPRISES ME AT ALL."

Facts:

1) FORCE FED PERFORMANCE IS IN MULTIPLE LAWSUITS AT THIS TIME UNLESS THEY HAVE RECENTLY SETTLED A FEW OF THEM. Check Lexus.

2) Bone Process Service. The only process server, in Yuba City, stopped by that location at least five times in the last year for at least four clients, to their recollection. This was according to Bone Process Service, which is run and owned by a very nice older lady. Feel free to call them.

3) FFP has had multiple customer complaints due to their negligence and lack of experience. Verified by both actual, written and verbal corespondence that I have in my possession from multiple owners.

4) They have damaged the exterior of at least six cars in the last year alone. Verified by both written and verbal corespondence.

5) During the time I have known, Mr. Fetcher has, "bad mouthed," at least three other tuner's in the presence of myself and a witness. Some of these tuner's were professionals when he was wearing diapers.

6) According to him, in presence of myself and a witness, he has served jail time for, "assualt."

My Personal Opinion

1) He is absulotely a liar.
2) He is no more than a , "Thief."
3) Character, from scale of 0-10. He is big zero in my opinion.
4) Opinion regarding his so called overhyped experience on scale of 0-10. I give him a, Two. This guy is full of crp..
5) If received $50,000 in free modification money to use on another car and had to use the services of, "Force Fed Performance," to obtain the funds, I would not do it. The liability in time, frustration and various others matters dealing with them would easily outweigh any economic/enjoyment advantage. I would rate my experience with them as a -10.
6) I have found Mr. Fetcher to be particularly aggressive and combative in some of my past conversations with him. In fact, according to him, again, in front a witness, this has gotten him in trouble of at least two occasions.

Further, I think that his combative and vocally abraisive nature stems from the fact, that he is the size of a runt, "Chihuahua."

THIS MY FIRST AND LAST POST ON THIS THREAD. 1) I AM NOT OPENING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS PARTICULAR POST and 2) I WILL BE RESPONDING TO ANY COMMENTS. It will be interesting to see if any more information comes forth regarding ones actual experiences with FFP.

And where the fuck did you get these "facts"? Oh wait, this is your "first and last post". Yeah, you're really fucking credible, dipshit. You wont even backup your claims with anything short of your own internet dribble.

:judge: :engarde: And where the fuck did you get these "facts"? Oh wait, this is your "first and last post". Yeah, you're really fucking credible, dipshit. You wont even backup your claims with anything short of your own internet dribble.