pdd

iTrader: (3)

any ideas?

JoeyGC5

iTrader: (24)

Coolant leaks come to mind, as well as possiblity of head lift ad warping. All from possibility of improper torque loading.

pekkaz

too little and uneven clamping force from bolt to bolt

BB

iTrader: (7)

Do you use the ARP Moly on both ends of the studs?

VSGLS1

iTrader: (8)

Torque would be skewed without oil or ARP lube per ARP's directions. Hmm...you could use the lube on both ends of the studs for properly trqing of the studs.

BB

iTrader: (7)

Just got off the phone with ARP. For studs lube both ends unless one is in water then use sealant. And lube both sides of the washers to eliminate metal to metal contact to get proper torque readings.

No lube = incorrect torque values. That could mean a lifted head.

J-Rod

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner....

Torque values are there for a reason. Its alos why they have them with both the moly lube, and with oil. Simply put, there is no reason to go with an upgraded fastener if you won't put the clmaping force of the fastner to use...

JoeyGC5

iTrader: (24)

what I'm chopped liver?

pdd

iTrader: (3)

thanks guys

DanZ28

iTrader: (5)

Would you not also get gauling since your using like metals (nut, washers, and stud)??

Dan

J-Rod

Ok, you're right too... So co-winners....

Mirek

Does anybody know what the stock bolts require?
My dealer had the heads off and then when I pulled them there was this "smelly" paste. I think somebody called this out once before but I do not recall what it was or if it was actually required. The dealer used "quite a bit" of it on some bolts. The heads did not leak and I know how messy some GM wrenches can be.

Tram

iTrader: (14)

So is motor oil equal to moly lube?

I just got my head bolts and got no lube..

Will motor oil ruin this? I really wanted to get the heads put on today, but may not get to if motor oil won't work..

BeemerZ28

iTrader: (5)

motor oil is not equal to moly lube, but it is better than nothing. Are you using GM headbolts or ARP stuff?
I would only use oil or moly lube on the ARP stuff, their instructions specify a torque rating is using moly lube or oil too
The GM headbolts have loc-tite preapplied and I wouldnt want to mess with that stuff, plus the stock headbolts are different because of their torque to yeild nature, meaning torque figures are not as big of a deal just making sure the bolts yeilds(rotation tightening method)

Tram

iTrader: (14)

I've got ARP head bolts...

The other thing is, the instructions recommend 30wt oil, but I don't have any straight 30 weight.. I have some 5w30, but at 60* (ambient air temp) it's not going to be 30 weight..

I wonder if Auto Zone would have something I could use..

BeemerZ28

iTrader: (5)

personally I think the 5w-30 will be fine. Your instructions should say to torque your bolts to a higher rating than if you are using moly lube, or are you missing those too?
If I remember right my ARP studs said to torque to 70ft-lbs(in the specified sequence obviously and stepping up the torque rating in 3-steps not just at 70ft-lbs initially)
But if oil is used I think it might have said 80-85ft-lbs, don't quote me on this*
No my opinion is that this is pretty high, I do understand why it needs to be higher to evercome friction on the threads, but I am just still not okay with it.
If it were me and I wanted to get my heads on I would use the oil, torque the bolts to something like 75-80, say 75ft-lbs then after bothe heads are on I would rotate the engine over by hand about 20-25 times(should be producing compression now, will be difficult) then I would re-check/torque the bolts to see if they are still at 75ft-lbs

Just a note this increased torque doesnt bother me because of a fear of popping/breaking the bolts as I know that ARP design their bolts to 75% of their actual yeilding capacity, it worries me about stresses put on the block and the heads.

Goodluck

Oh another way to do things would be use the oil torque to 70ft-lbs then after the first engine warm up re-torque them to make sure they are at 70ft-lbs. This way is kind of a pain as the bolts are now hidden by manifolds and valve covers.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

GM uses a pre-defined rotation that when considering the thread pitch results in a correct bolt stretch (preload). ARP uses their lubricant to determine a torque value that provides the correct stretch. Employing torque as a measurement of stretch is very dependent on friction of the threads. This is why ARP specifies their lubricant, they have control over the friction and therefore the fastener stretch will be correct. They also have a higher torque specification if you use 30 weight oil, since friction is higher a higher torque value is required to obtain the same stretch. Using something not specified by ARP through their in-house laboratory testing is inviting a problem in my opinion. Best option is to get the ARP lube, if you can't get that their secondary methods uses straight 30W oil. Don't use a multi-weight, you may end up with the wrong bolt stretch and that is not something you want with a head bolt.

massls1guy

iTrader: (9)

I used oil and torqued my arp head bolts to 85 ft-lbs per the arp instructions.

One thing that caught me.... I spent a lot of time cleaning out the head bolt holes until a used stock head bolt could be hand threaded in and out. But that wasn't enough for the arp bolts, they had a lot more material on the threads. Thought I was done and tried to put a head on but I wasn't done cleaning yet.

Tram

iTrader: (14)

Thanks guys-

I'm just going to pick up some ARP Moly Lube..

pdd

iTrader: (3)

wow-back from the dead- by the way, i did use the moly lube and no leaks or head lift what-so-ever with .040 cometics