doc2121

Ive been urged to post this from others in a seperate forum, here it is:

They wont help me anymore, and posting here wont help, I usually just get ignored. My story is worse than the ones posted above, and with a lot more money involved, it started with the original owner not completing the car for roughly a year, then selling the company to Chris, which now supposedly has no records of my work done there, and when I take the car back to get the things that were forgotten or not installed yet, they made me pay for them, of course they said since I was SPONSORED previously that they will cut me a rate on the labor, and supposedly hooked me up with all kinds of free labor, mind you I've already paid once for the whole build, and now I'm paying for products I've already paid for, and paying a minor labor charge, in which I already paid anyway. One of the problems was the fact that they smoked my ALDL port, so they couldn't tune it, they didn't want to look over it for me and told me to take it to a dealer, which after a long time I finally agreed to, after they got it back, they didn't follow the dealers instructions he gave them to tune it properly and proceeded to literally smoke the electrical system(smoke was coming through the dash). I was then told to come pick it up and trailer it to a shop to get fixed, when I arrived they then told me it cant be started, convenient huh as I live over 2 1/2 hours away. After getting into it with the desk boy Brian, he threatens to just roll my car out of the shop and leave it, I asked to talk to Chris, and he agrees to trailer it to the dealer that worked on it before, the dealer fixes it again and notifies me that APE caused the smoke and burnt the electrical, specifically showing me what they did. I of course still haven't caused too much **** because they owe me a tune, I get it back to them and they go to tune it, then they realize, hey you need a converter this one is too big, Ill make you a deal Chris says, I can do like $575 for a TCI which is his cost supposedly, and only charge me the sponsor rate of labor. I say no screw off and leave, one call to TCI and they say they can get me that converter for $450 to my door, weird my price at APE was $125 more and it was his cost? SO I ordered it. That's where I stand, the car fouls plugs every 10 starts because APE pissed a pig rich tune in it and didn't bother to even adjust it so it can idle, they never tuned the car after its been paid for, they request I buy more things, and pay labor, when of course during the normal install nothing was said about any of it, only now, and not to mention they didn't even offer to refund my money for the tune in turn for me still supporting the shop and saying good things about them. the sad thing is, I left out so much other **** they put me through its sick, and to think I WAS SPONSORED. LOL yeah right

Also a FYI the previous owner still tunes all of APE's car, most everyone knows Kirk, used to be a good guy, now he tunes high profile cars and thinks he's the man, when in turn he's a scammer. APE still supports him, even though they know of at least one person he scammed, me.

My downtime has been since January 2003, you read that right 2 YEARS, many others know the story, not much has been said on my end, because deep down I tried my hardest to get this resolved, but one person can only do so much.

If you want to talk to me Chris, post here, Id prefer it as I know you want nothing to do with me again.

And please dont tell me Im not telling the whole story because if anything Im leaving out more things the shop handled terribly both you and I know that.
Andy

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

Andy, you've got to be kidding me!! Your problems aren't from when I owned the place. You had problems prior with Kirk, he was the owner at that time. When he was owner they didn't finish your car. When I bought the company, we tried to help you and get you back up and running. We did a lot of stuff on your car for FREE!! Let me list for you the stuff we did and what we charged you to do it;

R&R POWER STEERING PUMP - $150
R&R FUEL TANK AND INSTALL FUEL PUMPS - NO CHARGE
RUN WIRING FOR HOTWIRE KIT - NO CHARGE
R& R Y PIPE AND INSTALL TEST PIPES - NO CHARGE
INSTALL CUST SUPPLIED FUEL RAILS - NO CHARGE

As you can see, you were only charged labor for one thing that we did. Plus I told you that we would get you a tune in the car. We tried tuning it and that's when we told you that you will need a new converter, yours was to loose!! I gave you the cost that we pay on the converters from TCI. I also told you that if you could find it cheaper that you should get it from that source. The reason your car has been down so long is due to a few things, 1.) your dealings with the old owners of my shop, 2.) Your parts that you bought were used and mismatched for what your combo is. i.e., your converter and trans, they weren't even right the first time they were installed. That is not our fault, YOU bought them used from the internet and had us install them. You were trying to build a car that it seems you didn't have the budget for.
AS for the ALDL problems you were having......I don't know. They started with the old owner, not me. When I got your car we tried to see if we could find the problem. I told you that I thought a GM dealer would be better equiped to handle the problem and suggested that you take it to a dealer. You said you had a buddy that could hook you up at a dealer and I even paid for it to be towed there! When it came back, your dealer friend told us to rig it so we could tune it. I told him that I was not comfortable doing it this way and he insured me it would work. I even talked to you and you said do what ever he told us to do and that your buddy was going to finish his end when we were done. Well guess what, it didn't work and it did smoke your power supply to your cigarette lighter. So once again the car could not be tuned. If you did things right the first time most of your problems would not fall on you. Buy the right parts the first time, not used junk off the internet and your car probably would have been finished a long time ago. No shop is going to ever get your car running with the way you go about things. You want people to make your car run with parts that are wrong for the application. You have a P1Sc kit on your car that you changed the head unit to a F1. Big difference in the two blowers there. You may need to upgrade a few parts to get it to run right. You don't want to spend money but a car like yours needs money spent to make it right.
You say that you paid for all of your stuff with Kirk......where are your reciepts? We asked you to bring us a receipt showing you were charged by Kirk for the above mentioned stuff......you never did. Probably still can't come up with one?? That's because you did not pay for the stuff in the first place. If you paid for all of this stuff that was not done to your car......why did you pick it up from Kirk in the first place?? Why didn't you make him give you your money back? Seems like that would have been the thing to do. You have even seen Kirk here and have never mentioned anything to him? All of this money that you are out and you can't even go ask the guy why he supposedly ripped you off?? Doesn't make sense to me. Most guy's would have gotten their money back before they picked up their car that wasn't done. I don't know what to tell you Andy. I tried my best to help you out and that looks like it wasn't good enough for you. You paid ME a grand total of $150, I think you have gotten your moneys worth from me. You still may or may not have issues with Kirk. If you need to get a hold of him let me know and I will get you in contact.

Thanks

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Seems like a very fair response from Chris to discuss this guy's car. Honestly if you were sponsored by the former owner you need to give him a call if there is some sort of outstanding item that was not done. And, at the same time, he might tell you that it's all done with because he hooked you up on a lot of stuff. Part of the tone in this thread feels like "Where is the rest of my free stuff..." I"m not trying to take sides but I sense some revisionist history going on from Andy.

doc2121

This is an awesome response dont belittle me telling me what I did wrong, how im a cheapskate, and so on and so on, if your the all knowing shop and I was bringing you internet junk as you call it why would you install it? Hmm if I was you and you KNEW something was junk or didnt work, would you not say a word and then install it anyway?? Well I guess you would just to get rid of someone and didnt care about the outcome...


As for the lie on the P1SC kit as you call it, hmmm I bought that kit from Tom Byrne, he ran that exact F1 setup on his Z to a low 10, same exact setup I brought to you, PEICE for PEICE so your off again on the peiced together kit by myself.

The smoked ALDL, yeah you did it, and the guy at the dealer told you how to do it, ahh but the only problem is you didnt do what he said, you did it wrong, and even left it that way when it was towed back to the dealer, I saw it, he saw it, your fault again.


I brought a receipt Chris, try to think hard, Brain took it, and mad e copy,it had **** on it but a grand total, and some small things, Kirk never gave me a detailed receipt, and at the same time I could say your full of it too, by saying you didnt have any of his customer information when you bought the shop, which rock do you want to throw at me next?

As for paying Kirk, I most definantly did, and why did I pick it up, well he told me to take it to break it in, and when I brought it back they would tie up the small things, only problem is he lied to me and said he installed the walbros, until I climbed under the car at home and still saw the Trex, I call and question him, he says they didnt have time but it should be safe to just break the car in and they will do that when I bring it back too. At the same time, they installed the fans backwards and the car was overheating, I had to trailer it back just to fix the fans. I also couldnt see the future at the time, meaning I didnt expect him to sell the shop, and not contact me or anything, weird huh?

The trans, definantly my fault, a guy screwed me and lied to me what it was, after I paid him I never could get ahold of him again, what am I going to do other than try to make it work right? I accept that.

Oh yeah Im not asking for free stuff, unless you know if shops that build a motor, install blowers, install trans, and then dont dynotune before giving to the customer. If thats the case, then I am asking for free stuff.

John
Nothing personal but dont question my motives, or try to predict my reasoning, when you have no clue of the past situations, me and APE have been over for awhile. If you have questions pm me, or Ill give you a number and you can call me.

Mr. B

iTrader: (1)

Not for nothing, but I recall doc2121 actually tried to rip Joe Prince off for a tranny. Now that's some pair.. doc2121 and JPR!



But now you're here singing the blues.

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

Andy, Once again it sounds like a lot of your problems were with KIRK!! For instance:
Since I have owned the company, I don;t think that you brought us any used / bad parts. With that being said though you did bring Kirk the trans that was no good. To answer your question though, you wouldn't really know the trans was bad so all he could do for you was install it. So it is on you, again, for buying a used trans.

OK, I was wrong on this. Once again though.....I didn't install it. Happened before I took over, yet again another item that was done with the previous owner, not me.

We can argue this all night. Who did it right, who did it wrong. If your dealer buddy would have fixed it correctly the first time there wouldn't have been any "RIGGING" to begin with. Also, once again, this problem supposedly started with Kirk, not me! Or did it happen when you had your stereo stuff installed.....we'll leave that alone as I don't know enough of that story.

You may be right Andy, but how can i give you money back for a tune if you can't even prove you paid for one?? That doesn't work at any shop. You have to have proof to get a refund. If you did not get a detailed receipt from Kirk, that is not my fault. You should have asked him for one. Once again though, your problem is with Kirk.

Once again, I told you up front that I did not have any of the customers sale receipts from when Kirk owned the business. He had his own accounting software and I brought my own in when we took over. Even if I did have the receipt it would have been the same as what you had. Where again would that have gotten us?

I don't want to throw any rocks at you, Andy. I tried to help you out, there were no rocks???

I am sure you did. Or Kirk would be after you. I was just trying to stress a point. You have a receipt that says nothing, it's not detailed. What am I supposed to do with it? If it was detailed you would have a legitament beef. I don't know what you paid for and what you didn't pay for. If it was detailed I would have been able to figure it out and would have given you your money back so you could have taken it to get tuned else where.

Well there is a whole lot of "HE'S" in this statement. He would be referring to KIRK, right Andy? If so, once again, something I was not invloved in. Also if you picked it up and noticed that the "small things" weren't so SMALL, why not pick up the phone and call HE...I mean Kirk? This way you could have brought the car right back to him. I mean it was fouling out plugs and wasn't tuned....how could you even break it in? You should have been able to easily notice these problems, right?

One more time, a problem that again happened while Kirk owned the business, not me.

Well he didn't go about selling the business overnight, actually took 3 month's to do. Within those three month's our local boards had rumors of me buying the business from him. I know you go on the local board or at least used too. Even with that being said, let's say that you didn't hear anything and that you were blind sided with it. That's not my fault. Kirk is the one that lied to you and decived you, not me.

Once again, old owner Kirk at fault there. Plus if it wasn't tuned and you believe what you just typed....why did you pick it up with out making sure it was tuned? Or at least tuned better than what you claim it was?

Ya, basically. You are asking me to do the stuff that you paid Kirk for. You didn't pay me for any of the above mentioned parts or labor. Remember, you have only paid me $150 for the work we performed for you. Your issues are with Kirk. He took a year to work on your car, not me. He is really the reason your car isn't running, not me. I put a lot of labor into your car without charging you for it. i paid for two tow's for your car. That alone equals more than what you paid me. That was me trying to help you out. Problem is you can't see when someone is trying to help you, all you want is more hand outs. Those stopped and now your angry!!

You need to take up and focus your anger towards Kirk. I willbe more tha happy to put you two in contact with each other. Just give me a call.

Thanks

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

WOW, I didn't know this.

Thanks for sharing, it helps to know who we are dealing with. Maybe thats why Andy doesn't spend much time on this board??

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Andy, if you only paid $150 APE for some little stuff after Chris bought it from Kirk, you clearly need to contact Kirk for resolution, seems pretty clear.

minty

I have a question here...Im not taking any sides, but.....Chris are you saying that since Kirk did all the work and Andy is saying "he" referring to Kirk that you are not responsible? Just curious....... I know you said you are trying to help out but APE is APE regardless of owns it ....is it not? I know I have bought thousands of dollars in parts and labor and to be quite honest all shops dont put exactly whats going on on those invoices...You and I both know that and we also know the reasons why shops dont....Now, Why not ask this retard Kirk who works for you tuning the cars if this story is true? Such an easy step that was overlooked.
One more thing...
Just because he only spend 150 while you owned APE doesnt mean thats all he spent with you....Without hardearned money like his other money that he spent you wouldnt have had a business to buy in the first place....

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

"Retard" Kirk is a very argumentative, and there is no cause for that.

Chris@AP-Engineering

iTrader: (-2)

Minty, you have some very good points and i will try to address them as well as I can. APE is not APE, when Kirk owned it was his company, a L.L.C., when I bought it we closed the business that he had, the LLC and I reopened it as my own corporation. I bought the name not the business, two different things there. I did not want his business for these very reason's. So with that being said they are two different companys. His (Kirk) is defunk, closed as of December 31st, 1993. Now with this all beig said, I did feel bad for Andy and honestly wanted to help him out. That is why we did the work on his car and did not fully charge him. Also I did ask Kirk if Andy story was true, and his story is different than Andy's. That's where I asked Andy to show me a bill where he paid for his tune. If he could have done that i would have refunded him his money. He couldn't come up with it and that is why he wasn't given back his money. He can't prove he paid for a tune. Either way I also was going to make sure he got a good tune. Till the car had the electrical trouble that was the direction we were headed.
Also I have detailed bills for the customers I have had, I am not sure what you were referring to. If a customer wants or asks for a detailed bill they can get one from me.
Thanks

minty

I am glad you try to help your customers. I can understand both sides you two have. It just seems to me like he really isnt trying to get free stuff. He did show that Kirk "said" some things were going to be done and werent done. How can you even take Kirk's word, he doesn't sound like a very honest person to me........What is it with the car business?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Andy, go ahead and contact Kirk and take this private.