SAM98WS6

Ok Dudes...I got hammered by some of you for questioning other AFR installs...and praised by others for asking the right questions. I realize some people are going to buy AFRs just because they say AFR and because on other motors they DO have a history. Im hoping for BIG numbers here.

I am a fan of the Tech Talk AFR has done here. AFRs do better than crappy LS1 ported heads thats for sure. It just always seemed to me like in all the other AFR threads someone was trying to hide something. Im not going to forget CR and A/F ratio like others have. Im not trying to forget or hide anything. If you dont see it..ask...if its not here its because I dont know..My goal here is to give you some more data so you can choose what is best for you. I told my buddy if it was my car I wouldnt put the AFRs on without milling them based on what Ive seen on the net so there is only one way to find out how good they are...here goes:

2000 Camaro SS M6 low miles
LS6 Intake
FLP 1 3/4 LT headers without Cats
Magnaflow Cat back
LS1 Motorsports Airlid
K&N
Dyno Tuned
Everything else is stock..even the 3.42 rear
Dyno shows SAE 344.8rwhp @ 5500rpm and 350rwtq @ 4500-4700rpm. The A/F was 12.6 across the board.

Installing
AFR 205 Heads
the heads are going to be cut .025” for a 62cc chamber
use a .054” head gasket, CR ~10.9:1
230/234 114+2 573/.578.
Custom Length Pushrods
Rollmaster Timing Set
Ported Oil Pump
SVO 30lb Injectors
Crane Quick Lift Rocker 1.7
Ported Stock TB
85mm MAF and adapter
ASP UD Pulley
SPEC Stage 3 clutch
Upgraded master and slave
Dyno Tuned

Comments before we put it under the knife? I have my own opinion on how much power this combo should make based on other installs, rear and the dynojet. Tune in Next week for result...

jrp

iTrader: (16)

lol, and i thought it was going to be you installing the AFR's on your 383. like anything on paper it looks great. are you guys going to degree the cam in or dot to dot? also, why the .054 gasket? and what length pushrods are you guys going with?

SAM98WS6

lol..nah..Im keeping my good heads.
Degreeing the cam.
.054 because of P/V and CR...safe
we'll see what length is proper when its assembled.

Unaffliated Racing

iTrader: (15)

If that's what you are worrying about...why cut the head then run a thicker gasket? Doesn't that just defeat the purpose......

SAM98WS6

thats what the owner chose to do...not my car.

Unaffliated Racing

iTrader: (15)

lol...umm..ok...weird

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

I agree...why not mill the head less and run the thinner .040 gasket....same CR with much better quench....even less prone to detonation and probably worth a couple of HP as well. I would run the .040 gasket AND the milled head you currently have...but I'm sure you guys are trying to avoid notching pistons which always leads to a "compromised" situation. Assuming you have enough P to V with an .040 and the 62 chambers that would be a better scenario.

I'm guessing (hoping) the car will land somewhere in the 430's-440's RWHP....perhaps slightly more, but much like any other build-up I personally don't have my hands involved in (and wrenching on), there are far too many variables to consider. I would have liked to have seen the FAST 90 set-up in a combination that you are looking for "BIG" power out of....its worth a solid 15-20 over the LS6/ported TB combo. Also, I would have notched pistons and shaved the heads to 59 cc's with an .040 gasket. More static compression is needed with a 230+ cam than a say a 224/224 "street" cam.

Just my quick .02 on what I glanced over quickly...

Sam....Consider trying a set of AFR 225's on your stroker after you dyno your "good" heads. If your unhappy with the dyno results I will take them back...(used, covered in oil), and send you a 100% refund. I'm confident we won't be seeing them again.....

Regards to all,
Tony M.

Unaffliated Racing

iTrader: (15)

Dang tony..that a hell of a deal. You know who this is right?...your buddy Brian.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

agreed Tony.

Sam's running some Rapid Motor 5.7's unmilled if i recall. he's making great power with them, i'd be very interested what some 225's would do on his combo.

99Transamman

Tony
I'd be more than happy to take you up on the offer to change the heads out on a 383.......I've all ready sold the patriots i had on to get some 225's. The only thing that I added was a 9in rear end everything else stayed the same so we'll see how much we pick up over patriots. Mike norris is going to tune it again so this will be a good test

SAM98WS6

Thats a heck of an offer Tony but not really a fair comparison. I put down 480rwhp and 440rwtq with off the shelf Rapid Stage 2 65cc LS1 2.02/1.57 heads and Cometic .042...heavy steel driveshaft..4.11 Moser, stock 17inch wheels, air filter in and 92 octane. Stock water pump, belts on etc..just like I drive it. My low lift flow numbers are very good too...daily driver. I didnt have the money for the Rapid LS6 heads and an easy 500+rwhp.

If your AFR 225s (which werent available at the time) didnt put down 500+rwhp in my combo I would send them back to you too I believe they would but I still dont have $2000+ to find out...unless I get a deal too good to pass up....

My buddy doesnt have the money for LSX90mm...but I would consider what he is doing a typical install for the average joe. Remember too he has the stock rear with 3.42s.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Remember also Sam, your cam is a 242/250/109. Not the best LS for making high dyno (hp) numbers. Go 113 LS and see what happens

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

not trying to be an ***, and i know it's a customers car and all. but, how are you going to find out how good/bad the heads are by adding a cam along with it? remember, i'm being nice here.

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

Hell,k I got a 382 All bore comparing numbers up against a set of ARE LS1 heads Stage 3. haha, i'm wanting to get the AFR 225's, just been saying that they aren't available yet for higher compression. am i right on this reading? Tax returns are coming, haha.

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Not yet. 62cc 225's are a way's off yet. Since you are all bore this is really what you need.

Mikey - Rapid Motorsports

SAM98WS6

"My goal here is to give you some more data so you can choose what is best for you." first post..

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

and i thank you for that data. but, in the same first post you said this:

and that is why i asked how are you going to find out how good/bad they are if you are adding a cam to the mix as well.

again, i and everyone here will appreciate the data you will give.

SAM98WS6

160 T-stat installed also.

Fired up today...dyno in a day or two...

Flareside

Yea, I thought the same thing when I read this. It's an interesting test for sure, but there's nothing specific about the quality of AFR heads here. Too many things are being changed to know how much of a difference the heads made.

SAM98WS6

Since I think this is a very typical install...cam/heads on an LS1...most people will form an opinion on how good the AFRs are compared to other heads. There have been enough installs here to make a call and this will compare to other installs posted in which the numbers were different than these are going to be.