Gears & Axles - Let's talk LCAs... INSIDE!

There has to be 4 million LCAs out there and I'm sure some of you have used a few different manufacturers yourselves. I'd also like to discuss some information on Relocation Brackets.

I personally have only tried BMR tubular with the poly/poly ends and the were more of a replacement mod since my stockers had 80,000 miles on them.

I've heard people swear by Metcos, other say BMR with the poly/rubber ends and some say adjustable.

Also, does anyone use relocation brackets on a car that's not lowered or only on lowered cars.

<img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Box style for drag racing and tube style for the street or road racing. Who knows what brand though. It looks like they all get their bushings from the same place. Chrommolly ones would be cool.

Relocation brackets do work on non lowered cars. Or at least the GW ones that I have do. There are two sets of holes to put the bolts through. One for stock height and one for lowered cars. I am not sure what the effect is on stock height cars but they help a ton on loweres cars.

It all depends on what you want to do. If you want to take your car to the limit in corners then poly ends will not work at all. They will bind. Rubber is good for cornering and poly is good for drag racing. So why don't you start with saying for what application you want to use them for and then I can get more technical on this.

I've got the Alston setup since I got a deal on everything at Vettefest a few years back. No complaints <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

I had Lakewood poly/poly. I don’t recommend poly/poly on the street anymore though. I was a user of this LCA on so many F-bodies for so many years until a post on the “other” site got me to try a switch to the BMR poly/rubber. The poly/rubber is SO much better on the street. I did some VERY extensive testing on my old poly/poly vs. the rubber/poly in about 8 different categories, some of you might remember my huge post on that about 3 months ago on the other site. It corners much better (no binding causing loss of control in the rear during high speed braking and cornering), it doesn’t “thud” over hard bumps, it doesn’t squeak, and it still keeps the wheel hop that I had with the stockers away.

I have been converted <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> It poly/rubber for me from now on <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

Have you tried 1LE control arms? Hard rubber on both sides.

I have Sphoon LCA and LCA relocation brackets (RLB). My car is not lowered. The purpose of the LCA-RLB is to give your car a better bite of the line. It is even better if you have an adjustable Torque arm and an aftermarket pan hard rod. I went with chrome molly spherical rod ends on everything. They are noisy but I really don't hear them over my exhaust with my cut outs open (as I always have them open). When I lived in Alaska I would take everything off for the winter and I really could tell the difference the car was really sloppy on turns and I had REAL BAD wheel hop. If you can put up with the noise and drag race more than drive on the street then go for it. I have never regretted the money I spent on Sphoon parts they are top quality and if you call you will even talk to the man himself and he is another great wealth of knowledge.

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</p>

Shooter....

just get any aftermarket LCA you want

the TORQUE ARM plays the biggest role in the rear suspension, LCAs come 2nd

any LCA whether tubed or boxed will work fine, just for example:

Tom Guellich uses Hotckis boxed LCA's with poly bushings and he goes 9.80s on motor. So it is your choice

--LCA relocation brackets lower the mounting point of the LCA and therefore doesn't have to move as much when the suspension loads, getting it to "bite" more like the other guy said

So get any aftermarket LCA's you want and some relocation brackets and the car will get some better traction

[quote]Originally posted by JimmyKash:
<strong>Shooter....

just get any aftermarket LCA you want

the TORQUE ARM plays the biggest role in the rear suspension, LCAs come 2nd

any LCA whether tubed or boxed will work fine, just for example:

Tom Guellich uses Hotckis boxed LCA's with poly bushings and he goes 9.80s on motor. So it is your choice

--LCA relocation brackets lower the mounting point of the LCA and therefore doesn't have to move as much when the suspension loads, getting it to "bite" more like the other guy said

So get any aftermarket LCA's you want and some relocation brackets and the car will get some better traction</strong><hr></blockquote>


As far as drag racing only car goes, yeah. But on a street car there is a huge difference. Boxed ones(Metcos, etc) are drag race only. They have negative impact during cornering. You will lose the rear end much sooner with them then with stock ones when cornering. The tire will be the only thing holding your rear end in place.

Control arm needs to twist as it was designed to do or the suspension won't work. Stock ones allow quite a bit of fore/aft deflection. Poly bushings eliminate most of this fore/aft deflection, but they will resist the torsional movement with a much larger force. This is called bind. The bushings themselves will resist the deflection with a large force. Under a lot of body roll, they will resist with enough force that the body of the LCA itself and/or the mounting brackets will be twisted.

The primary result of boxing the LCAs or using a tubular LCA is additional resistance to twist, which only hurts and it does not resist to fore/aft motion, which is what the control arm is for.

You could go with spherical/rod ends. The advantage is that there is no measurable bind. The disadvantage is that they are very noisy and wear out. You can just replace the rod ends in the Spohn units. BTW, they last lot longer then BMR rod ends. Even rod ends on one end and poly on the other will get rid of over 85% of the bind when compared to poly/poly unit.

If you don't mind the noise, get rod ends, otherwise get 1LEs.

Remember, drag race only, when buying those stiff poly/poly LCAs.

So BMR's are good for all around??

[quote]Originally posted by Dom:
<strong>


As far as drag racing only car goes, yeah. But on a street car there is a huge difference. Boxed ones(Metcos, etc) are drag race only.</strong><hr></blockquote>

metcos are SOLID.....thats why they are meant for drag racing

also rod ends are for drag racing not street driving....because there is no binding in the launch

for some more in depth explaination go to the www.bmrfabrication.com (http://www.bmrfabrication.com)

and check out the FAQ for LCA's...they have some good ones overthere

Yes rod ends are not for street driving, but that's ONLY cause they are noisy. If you were deaf, then they would be the best thing for street racing as there is 0 measurable bind with them. Metcos are the biggest pieces of shit on this planet. Only use them on drag queens that never see street use. As far as FAQ on BMRs site, you should put * at the end.

*when car is going straight ONLY

When you're cornering, it's totally a different story.

[quote]Originally posted by BIGBOS:
<strong>So BMR's are good for all around??</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you're not going to push your car in corners, sure. Why don't you look into 1LEs also and compare what people have to say.

Hmm, I have the 1LEs stock so I cant really say anything to contribute, other than the McLaren F1 has all metal bushings and rod ends (noisey).

This should be archived IMO.

i have hotchkis lca's with no lca relocation brackets and made a night/day difference in wheel hop, im debating getting relocation brackets or not??? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">

Anyone have a part number for the 1LE RLCA bushings?

Shooter... I had relocation brackets and BMR control arms on the 97.

I didn`t notice any improvement in traction or anything else with either one.

waste of $$ IMO.

I have BMR tubular with poly/rubber. I noticed an immediate improvement in traction. I did the PHB at the same time too. I give BMR a big thumbs up and a fluffy dance. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

i'm running LG poly/rod LCA's for about 2000 miles now. even after 150 miles on a road course, i have no noise issues with them. so dont count out the rodends due to noise. from what i've heard, the noisy ones are the cheap ones (rodends).

I have BMR LCA's,SFC's,STB, and the adjustable rod. HUGE improvement in cornering,hop, firmness etc. i highly recommend them

i want to get relocation brackets. i'm curious if that will also help my tire hop problems as the lca's helped it but didn't take it away COMPLETELY

[quote]Originally posted by Glenn98ZM6:
<strong>i'm running LG poly/rod LCA's for about 2000 miles now. even after 150 miles on a road course, i have no noise issues with them. so dont count out the rodends due to noise. from what i've heard, the noisy ones are the cheap ones (rodends).</strong><hr></blockquote>


There has to be a noise since it's metal on metal contact. How much depends on the end inself and how well it's made. Tolerances are different. So how quiet is it? You know it's going to be looser and looser and make more noise.

[quote]Originally posted by Dom:
<strong>Yes rod ends are not for street driving, but that's ONLY cause they are noisy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

no, its not because they are just "noisy" its because rod ends wear out extremely fast

talk to chevyguy3 on our board or www.lt1tech.com (http://www.lt1tech.com) and ask him he liked his rod-ended LCAs on his 400mile a week daily driver

I have a set of the Kenny Brown LCA's that i am going to put on my car. Anyone have any expericnce with these? These are there Adjustbale Street ones. I need to get a Panhard bar to and i want to have them all done at the same time. I am getting some wheel hop when i powershift into 2nd. Thanks

BMR suspension all around Shooter. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> you know Speed inc carries them at a great price. I wanna see that SS <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

I have the BMR ruber poly boxed LCAs. These are HEAVY units that will stay relatively quiet if you make sure they are torqued to spec and well greased.

If I had to do it all over again I would get the Global West LCAs with the sperical bearings! It seems sperical bearings seem to be the way to go on suspension pieces. Bushings bind, bearings don't! Look at LG T/A, they use sperical bearings too.

Swill

[quote]Originally posted by SuperCamaroSS:
<strong>BMR suspension all around Shooter. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> you know Speed inc carries them at a great price. I wanna see that SS <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey Byron, how you been? Haven't seen ya in ages. Still got that sharp BLACK SS? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

I'm thinking the BMR may be the way I go. Izzo is gonna do some work for me over the winter so maybe I'll just get some put on then. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

The LG Rod ends are Teflon Lined, like on an airplane. they do not go "metal to metal". These are not cheap rod ends, and they have a vey long life without any noise.

Our Poly/Rod end LCA is the only way to go for no noise, plus no "Binding"

Plus there is a 20% off sale going on now till Christmas on all of our suspension parts.

Lou Gigliotti

I got G2 products and love em!!! <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

[quote]Originally posted by JimmyKash:
<strong>

no, its not because they are just "noisy" its because rod ends wear out extremely fast

talk to chevyguy3 on our board or www.lt1tech.com (http://www.lt1tech.com) and ask him he liked his rod-ended LCAs on his 400mile a week daily driver</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well yea they wear out, as I already mentioned, but not extremely fast. There are different typed of rod ends. BMRs wear out fast, but Spohns have a much greater life time. Plus they are very easy to replace. These are also teflon lined.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/roden1.htm

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Dom ]</p>

I had the GW dual speherical ends and they stunk IMHO. I'm now using BMR rubber/poly and it's MUCH better. A friends LT1 I autox with him has spohn adjustable dual spherical ends ( and LG AArms up front ) and it is phenomenal handling. Too loud ( the LT1 ) for daily driving. My GW's we're way too loud as well, and I went through the axle end of the LCA in 2K miles.