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IRL to Use Corn Based Ethanol.

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Old 03-04-2005, 07:15 AM
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Default IRL to Use Corn Based Ethanol.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/3433558

WASHINGTON (AP) - Gasoline Alley at the Indianapolis 500 will soon become Ethanol Alley: The Indy Racing League is switching from methanol to a new mixture relying on corn-derived ethanol.

The league's IndyCar Series will start using ethanol next year, the league said Wednesday.
It's a small market for ethanol, involving 160,000 gallons out of 3.5 billion produced each year. But it's a big symbolic gesture meant to counter perceptions that ethanol doesn't perform as well as gasoline or other fuels.

"It's a performance fuel that's going to go around the track at 220 miles an hour," said Dave Vander Griend, president of ICM Inc., a Kansas company that builds ethanol plants.

The corn and ethanol industries have influential supporters who pushed to get the grain alcohol into race cars.

"This sport is so popular, and so many people follow it," said Missouri GOP Sen. Jim Talent, one of several Midwesterners who lobbied for ethanol's use. "This makes a statement to the whole world that ethanol is a high-performance fuel, so people who claim you're going to lose something are not correct."

Racing officials say they're promoting the importance of the environment and of homegrown fuel.

"In the last 10 years, motor sports has really broken into the mainstream in helping promote and publicize sponsors' products - it's not just motor oil anymore," said Ken Ungar, senior vice president of public affairs for the league.

"It's about a broad range of consumer products. The ethanol industry, as many other industries have, recognizes that motor sports is a powerful promotion tool," he said.

Indy Racing is announcing the switch Thursday in Washington with Talent and other lawmakers on hand.

Used as a cleaner-burning fuel additive, ethanol is an alcohol created by distilling grain mash, usually from corn. Top ethanol-producing states are Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Tennessee. The industry is growing, with 83 ethanol plants operating now and 14 more under construction.

In the Indy series, ethanol will replace methanol, a natural gas-made fuel that replaced gasoline on the circuit in the 1970s because it was less likely to ignite. IRL cars are built differently from NASCAR vehicles, with no fenders and an open cockpit.

Ethanol, too, is less combustible than gasoline, but engines will need fine-tuning to start burning it.

The changes will be slight, said race car driver Paul Dana. Engines will need alterations because ethanol burns hotter, Dana said, and horsepower will drop slightly while fuel economy rises slightly.

"All of those are extremely subtle," Dana said. "It's more of a software problem in this day and age of computer-controlled engines."

Dana will be driving a car sponsored by the ethanol industry in the IndyCar Series, which opens this weekend at Homestead-Miami Speedway. Cars in the Indy series will use a blend with 10 percent ethanol next year, then switch to 100 percent ethanol in 2007.

Methanol producers are disappointed in the switch, said Gregory Dolan, vice president of communications and policy for the Methanol Institute. Methanol still will be used in other racing series except for NASCAR, where gasoline is used.

"I think they'll find, switching to ethanol, their fuel costs will be rising, and they may find some period of adjustment as they try to transition their high-performance vehicles from one alcohol fuel to the other," Dolan said.

"This probably has more to do with the politics of corn than it does with the actual need for high-performance racing fuel," he said.
Old 03-04-2005, 07:20 AM
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i heard this the other day, will this hurt their cars or anything?
Old 03-04-2005, 09:00 AM
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I doubt it. Article said that they might see a slight drop in HP and a slight gain in fuel milage. My guess, things won't change @ all once they find the fuel and timming maps. I remember reading an "alternative fuels" article somewhere that said you might even be able to make slight gains of HP by switching over from straight gas, and it burns a hell of a lot cleaner. It's got my vote over hydro cars.
Old 03-04-2005, 09:21 AM
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If this is anything like E85 then simply a tune and synthetic oil should be enough IMO. Also, if ethanol starts to become more common that we can support our own fuel needs here in the USA better and farmers will find more of a market. But I thought the gains were minor in HP and MPG went down so more fule was needed.
Old 03-04-2005, 10:16 AM
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I said the gains were slight in terms of power. I think the problem right now is that it takes more energy to refine the stuff than you get out of it but, then again, the same is true for Fuel Cell Hydro tech. I've said for a few years now that this would be the better way to make a shift to alt. fuels because the infastructure (gas stations, engine manufacturing tooling, ect.) is already in place. Only minor changes need to happen to make this work. Eth will burn hotter so I think the major changes would be in cumbustion chamber and piston design, meaning more quench, and adj. fuel and timing maps, bam, clean burning, renewable fuel source.
Old 03-04-2005, 10:47 AM
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moonshine in the irl, just in time for the duke boys movie
Old 03-04-2005, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sb427f-car
I said the gains were slight in terms of power. I think the problem right now is that it takes more energy to refine the stuff than you get out of it but, then again, the same is true for Fuel Cell Hydro tech. I've said for a few years now that this would be the better way to make a shift to alt. fuels because the infastructure (gas stations, engine manufacturing tooling, ect.) is already in place. Only minor changes need to happen to make this work. Eth will burn hotter so I think the major changes would be in cumbustion chamber and piston design, meaning more quench, and adj. fuel and timing maps, bam, clean burning, renewable fuel source.
I have heard the same that costs will be high but if it catshes on it will more than pay for itself.

Becasue of that I think it would be wise if the Federal gGov't helped cover initial costs with grants and breaks.

Another really good thing with ethanol as an alternative is cleaner (virtualy non polutant) emmisions. We could all go ORY.
Old 03-04-2005, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ActionJack
I have heard the same that costs will be high but if it catshes on it will more than pay for itself.

Becasue of that I think it would be wise if the Federal gGov't helped cover initial costs with grants and breaks.

Another really good thing with ethanol as an alternative is cleaner (virtualy non polutant) emmisions. We could all go ORY.

Hell, OBDII scan emmisions is great for that, THANK YOU MARYLAND for the non-sniffer or visuals.
Old 03-04-2005, 12:55 PM
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I had heard there haven't been any serious movements for a push for ethanol in the regular automotive world because it still takes 1.2 gallons of petroleum to make 1 gallon of ethanol, or something like that.
Old 03-04-2005, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Delux247
I had heard there haven't been any serious movements for a push for ethanol in the regular automotive world because it still takes 1.2 gallons of petroleum to make 1 gallon of ethanol, or something like that.

You mean methanol??
Old 03-04-2005, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sb427f-car
You mean methanol??
deja vu
Old 03-04-2005, 04:27 PM
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I think it's a neat idea.......being from the corn belt and all.
Old 03-04-2005, 07:11 PM
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When i lived in Iowa, ethanol based fuel was very nice, regular unleaded was more expensive than the super premium. IT was crazy. Wish we had it in Tx, but the companies have to strong of a grasp on politics to make a movement like that down here.

-jon
Old 03-09-2005, 11:10 AM
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Im currently doing a a paper on the benifts of Ethanol in my english class. There are a few disadvantages, but I guess you could call me an Environmentalist. I benifits for the Environment for Ethanol use to be not so great since it would cost more energy to produce,the fertizler in the gorund,pesticides, etc. Now it seems that with modern technology we have surpassed that hurdle and the cost of Ethanol is now worth it.

Its better for our health as well since burining just E10 (ethanol with 10%, found in most gas stations in the midwest) reduces cardon monoxide and other harmful agents in the air by 30%. Our economy would be more self sufficent and if our country ran on only ethanol (with farming technology advancements it would be well worth it) prices of fuel could reach below a dollar a gallon. When's the last time you saw a dollar a gallon for fuel?? Fuel mileage is lost by roughly 20% using E85 but for the most part thats **** compared to the price you pay for it. However, the price you pay vs how much you get is almost evened out when you compare the two. (Keep in mind the other benifits of using Ethanol. Examples: Our health, Our Environment, and the important political facotr which is our Economy)

Right now E85 iis at 1.67/gallon in Elgin, IL but as for the unleaded next to it... that is 2.03/gallon. 36 cents a gallon difference?!?! Ethanol prices hardly change (thank god) and its a much more stable market. Two weeks ago gas prices were? Roughly (in my area) 1.86! Now how does the price of gas jump 17 cents in 2 weeks while e85 prices haven't moved fractions of a cent since December. THERE IS NO OPEC FOR ETHANOL! Futures of Ethanol are easy to since each year corn production keeps going up and up!

I could also go into how its better for our cars since it doesn't leave a gummy residue and has a high octane for high compression/blown cars. However, I do not have time to do that and if you wish to see my paper I will send it to you in two weeks.

All in all, you be the judge....and if you have a FFV Vechile, use it. I plan on buying a Ford Ranger ( Sorry guys, I will get a FFV GMC 1500 when I get my degree) this summer so I can stand up for what I believe in. I want my license plate to say " Use E85"

Take Care
Old 03-09-2005, 02:23 PM
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thats pretty cool
Old 03-09-2005, 05:05 PM
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Minnesota wants to got to 20% ethanol By 2010. If gas prices keep going up, I bet they will implament it sooner.
Old 03-10-2005, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FastCarsSpeedKills
I could also go into how its better for our cars since it doesn't leave a gummy residue and has a high octane for high compression/blown car.
Good for the enviroment and we can still have our 1000hp street cars?
Hell yeah, I am all for it.
Old 03-14-2005, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Muffracing
Minnesota wants to got to 20% ethanol By 2010. If gas prices keep going up, I bet they will implament it sooner.
Minnesota has the most amount of ethanol stations in the contry. 40 alone reside in the twin cities and you've ever been there..... you may wonder where they all fit. Besides they have a very very very very strict state EPA up there. Its a good thing to, with 10,000 lakes you need to protect the environment. Beautiful state, one only wonder can the city of LA if get cleaned up???

erik
Old 03-14-2005, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by granitemonkey
Good for the enviroment and we can still have our 1000hp street cars?
Hell yeah, I am all for it.

LoL. Ethanol would raise the horsepower of any car with a better tune, but gas mileage (ethanol mileage we should say) would suffer. No big deal though if we run out. After all, we can just grow more corn,sugar canes, or use fruit or vegitable waste. The supply would be endless!

Im all for hydrogen cars but if you simply outdate today's cars it would have a big effect on the economy. ICE engines, and various fuel sources, and I will be around for another 100 years.....easy! Lets just do it in a enviromentally safe manor.

Now if the government would mandate that 20% Biodiesel must be put into petrolium diesel fuel. Made from french fry grease (lord knows how many Mcdonalds there are in your area) and allowes for more boost for the turbo guys

erik
Old 03-14-2005, 07:56 PM
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Ethanol specs around 108 octane. There's alot of promise with this fuel.


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