Tools & Fabrication - Should I learn how to Mig weld?

I was thinking maybe I should just buy this MIG welder for an incredible price at harborfreight.com:
Item #:
44567-0jja

It is a 90Amp MIG welder.

I have some exhaust work, specifically welding in Cats on an ORP pipe, that I will need to do in the near future.

I can pay some muffler shop to do it, or I could potentially learn another good skill?

What do you think?

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

First off, I think it is always a good idea to learn new skills. Welding would be a good one. On the other hand, I have heard that these welders are difficult to use. May not be the best to learn on. Could be discouraging if you are learning. I'm sure someone with experience with one of these welders will chime in on this. I have only used the MIG welders with shielding gas. It's been a while as well. One thing to keep in mind, if you are looking into stainless steel, you will need a different type of wire. I think that most use silver for welding stainless.
Anyone?

I was under the impression that arc welders were harder to beginners, but cheaper to purchase. Migs are a bit more expensive initially, but easier to use since no rods are needed... But what the hell do I know!!! This is all totally new to me, it just seems like a good piece of equipment to have around for smaller jobs.

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Tommy, It looks like we're in two different worlds, your $129 and my $1000.

I really can't say what the quality is of the Harborfrieght mig welder is but as I said , you usally get what you pay for.

Why not check out a welding supply store and go from there. May the power be with you, later.

Al

Hi Al,
I'm all about doing things the right way, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to figure out HOW there can be such a huge price discrepency between these two particular products. (I have no clue about what makes a welding machine a good one. That is what I would like to know)
There is NO doubt in my mind that the setup you suggested would be great. I just don't know if what I am planning to do requires such a setup.
Thanks again for the advice!

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I paid $325 for my Lincoln gasless welder at Lowes and it works frickin awesome. I have used high dollar welders that didn't work as well (with gas).

The cheapest wire feed welders use flux-cored
wire. They may, or may not, have provisions
for adding shielding gas. You have to be very
careful with the fine print. A bottle, regulator
(flow regulators are best, but $$) and hoses
might add another $200-$300 to the setup.

Exhaust and frame work, a cheapo might suffice.
However, your choice of flux-cored wire types
is very limited, even more so than what you can
commonly find for MIG. I don't know if you can
get stainless flux-cored, or not. Flux-cored
leaves a residue and may have more inclusions
but seems fine for ugly, mild steel weldments.
Whether you could live with it as your only
option, you'll have to think about.

There are a lot of low-end MIG boxes out there
now and some are not so bad. I have a big, old
one I got used, and now it's pinned behind the
project car and I'd have a hard time getting it
out and using; small can be beautiful. I would
recommend going with a cheap box by a big name,
though, because stuff like tips and repair
parts are hard to come by for many Fine Imported
Tools.

It's probably the easiest form of welding for
a hack hobbyist to learn. It's the only one that
makes sense for automotive sheet metal work.
Yeah, somebody will probably pipe up about
doing it with a TIG, but really. It's limited
in penetration so anything over 1/4" you'd
want a stick box. But there's nothing over
1/4" on any car I've had, except the block
castings.

mig welding is easy to learn and very handy you can weld lots of stuff with a mig welder. you should get a lincoln welder with a flux core set-up but comes with everything to switch over to gas. you practice without gas and get real good at it and learn the limits of the flux core then do the jobs you can without gas. then when you need to use stainless steel mig wire or some .20 mig wire you use gas. flux core comes in only 2 or 3 sizes .30 and.35, perhaps .25. deciding what welder and equipment you need is the hardest part in fact i want one right now and don't want to spend alot but since i have already done my exhaust and used some elses welder i don't need one right now.

I believe the 'El cheapo' on harborfrieght.com has a duty cycle of 10%. More than likely, you will not be able to weld anything thicker than 1/4" plate and you'll probably need to let it(the MIG welder) sit and cool after 5-10 minutes of use.

Tommy, Usally you get what you pay for so I'd pass on the Harborfreight stuff, to do it wright you should get your welding suppies from a Welding Equipment & Supplie store. This is just my opinion but in the long run it's the only way to go. You'll get better service and help when buying from this type of store.

Now if you're still with me here's what I would suggest, Lincoln 135 Plus mig welder, Lincoln cart, argon tank with gas regulator and hose, spool/spools of mig wire, welding gloves and a Auto-Dimming welding helment.

Now here comes the kicker, you probably where looking to spend under $400....what I've suggested will be more like a $1000. If you do or plan on doing steel work in the future it will be well worth it, if someone needs something welded charge them a small fee and that will help you get some of the money back that you spent on the welder.

Sorry for making this so long but here's one more thing, a mig welder is not hard to learn to use at all.

Al

Al,
That sounds like great advice. I was just thinking for the amount of stuff I would actually be welding, maybe a cheap welder wouldn't be so bad. And for the price, I could kinda see if it's the way I want to go without too big of an investement.
Do you think that the harbor freight welder will not work? Or do you just think it is of poor quality?
Thanks again.

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

PS, the damn thing is on sale for $129, that's what really got my thinking! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Mig welding IS fairly easy. Tig welding is harder to learn because you have 2 items to contend with, the rod and the torch.

Harbor Freight does sell some Hobart welders, but also sells some cheaper stuff too. Someone also pointed out that the cheaper ones have a limited access for rplacement parts. This is true but also some of the cheaper ones are hi end knock offs and parts can interchange.

Shielded welding is best if you want a better looking weld and your parts to be welded are cleaner to start with. Flux core will burn through most small rust spots/paint etc. Finish usually has to be cleaned up (grinding/wire brushing) before painting.

Someone mentioned that flux core wire only comes in 2-3 sizes. Not true. Flux core wire is available in MANY sizes. When I welded in a shipyard YEARS ago, we used Lincoln Innershield welders that took a flux core wire a bit bigger than a coathanger. Talk about some serious welding!!! But basically with that size wire you simply did the drag technique.

My suggestion would be to but a low end welder to learn on. That way you don't have much $$$ tied up incase you lose interest.

Tim

Call me a damn idiot, but I got another catalog from harbor freight when I got home, and the mig welder that was $159 is now $119. It only requires 110v, and that's all I have in my garage anyway. I ordered the thing, and if I lose interest, not much money wasted. Hell, if it lasts for one cat install, then it pretty much paid for itself....

It takes, .035 and .30 wire
90 amp max
Duty cycle 12% at 80 amps
20% at 60 amps

A decent dinner costs more than this piece of junk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Wish me luck!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Go with the .030 wire. The .035 wire is a bit big for that machine to get any good penetration.

Tim

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TaTommyWS6:
<strong> Call me a damn idiot,
Wish me luck! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tommy, I won't call you an idiot but I will wish you luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Now you can call me an idiot, you saved a ton of money over what I suggested so get the Auto-Dimming helmet. If the welder does what you want it to you'll probably be doing some more welding down the road, there's a world of difference when you use a Auto-Dimming helmet over a non-dimming helmet.

And again here's the kicker, you'll have more invested in a Auto-Dimming helmet ( $150 and up )compared to the non-dimming helmet.

There, I've said my piece, enjoy the weekend. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Al

Thanks Al,
I ordered a auto-darkening helmet as per your suggestion.

Specs:
shades #9 through #13
1/20000 second
Solar Powered
ANSI approved
Full Face
3.75" x 1.5"

$69

Good deal?

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I recently bought one of the same welders that Reckless has. They are very easy to use and learn. I'm upgrading it to use shielding gas now since I want to mess around with welding aluminum.

It came with a face shield that I used once. Afterwards my eyes felt kinda fuzzy/blurry. I got an autodarkening helmet after that for $99. It's adjustable from 9-13. My eyes are fine now after welding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

If your eyes feel strange at all after using the helmet upgrade it immediately.

A relative recommended a SpeedGlas helmet to me. They're exspensive and the one I have seems to work fine but, like he said it's not worth risking your vision over a few bucks saved on a helmet. I'm looking into getting one now.

Have fun and make sure the ground is on the workpiece good. <img border="0" alt="[bomb]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

John

Tommy,

I was looking at that Harborfreight welder too. Let me know what you think of it once you get/use it.

Thanks! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Lincoln Mig Pak 10 works gas/gasless flux-core and it works great for $450 and it is extremely forgiving to weld with... and really how many of us are going to be welding anything thicker then 1/4" at home in the garage anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lincoln Mig Pak 10 (http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7113&isolocale=EN)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TaTommyWS6:
<strong> Call me a damn idiot, but I got another catalog from harbor freight when I got home, and the mig welder that was $159 is now $119. It only requires 110v, and that's all I have in my garage anyway. I ordered the thing, and if I lose interest, not much money wasted. Hell, if it lasts for one cat install, then it pretty much paid for itself....

It takes, .035 and .30 wire
90 amp max
Duty cycle 12% at 80 amps
20% at 60 amps

A decent dinner costs more than this piece of junk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Wish me luck!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">60 and 80 amps @ 115v? you've got 115v in your garage, but I doubt it's good for more than 20A, 30A tops. you may be doing some re-wiring to accomodate that thing. be careful not to overload the wiring in your garage. the insulation starts to deteriorate real fast once the temperature exceeds 200*f.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

More specs:
Input: 115 volt, 15 amps, single phase

Hence the low "duty cycle"

It puts out 90amps max.

BTW, I got another catalog yesterday where they dropped the price down to $99. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I called up today and they are crediting me the difference (from $119) My "investment" is getting smaller and smaller!

I will definitely post a review of this machine.

Tommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />