View Full Version : The H/C decision is made!! Finally...


WS6freak
03-15-2005, 02:29 PM
TEA 5.3 heads and Futral F13 cam.

Now the question is if :hail: Ellis will want to install them along with the QTP headers, catte Y-pipe and UD pulley....

EEEEEELIIIISSSS where are ya!!!!?????

vtec this
03-15-2005, 03:26 PM
Sweet!! You will love the F13. I have the F11 and it makes great power and sounds awesome! Did you get it on a 114 or 112 LSA?

WS6freak
03-15-2005, 03:33 PM
I haven't gotten it yet, but I am leaning towards 112 +4 -- it al depends on if it works ok with the 5.3s -- I'm still waiting for an email from TEA about this, but that's the combo for sure.

WAHUSKER
03-15-2005, 03:48 PM
Are you going to have to clearance the pistons for that cam with those heads?

Rottluver
03-15-2005, 04:07 PM
Are those similar to these? I am looking at them for possible puttin on my baby........

AAP Stage II 5.3L heads, milled .030 for 11.1:1 compression on stock 346cid

fresh Erson single valve springs (less than 5k miles)
(springs were fine for 222/224 .571"/.571" 114LSA cam)
2.02/1.60 Manley valves
Comp titanium retainers
GM locks and seals
Don Lee Auto went over them about 6 months ago.

With the cam above these heads made 410rwhp/415rwtq through an LS1 intake and cats, with an unlocked Y3000 and 3.73's. Dyno on my website.

Any opinions/suggestions? Still has the factory cam "for now"

WS6freak
03-15-2005, 04:18 PM
According to TEA no clearance issues at all. My understanding is that TEA starts with the 5.3 because it is cast with a smaller combustion chamber (61cc) than the LS6 or LQ9 heads, so they can machine the chambers without making them too big.

The heads are ported but not milled (it's an option), and according to other people that have this combo it can get easily to 450rwhp after a good tune.

NataSS Inc
03-15-2005, 05:12 PM
are the heads milled and whats the lift on that cam?

WS6freak
03-15-2005, 05:19 PM
The heads are ported but not milled (it's an option), and according to other people that have this combo it can get easily to 450rwhp after a good tune.

F13 = 230"/232" .595"/.585" 112LSA

or

F13 = 230"/230" .595"/.595" 114LSA

Todd2001SS
03-15-2005, 06:02 PM
According to TEA no clearance issues at all. My understanding is that TEA starts with the 5.3 because it is cast with a smaller combustion chamber (61cc) than the LS6 or LQ9 heads, so they can machine the chambers without making them too big.

The heads are ported but not milled (it's an option), and according to other people that have this combo it can get easily to 450rwhp after a good tune.


Sounds awesome! 450 rwhp, nice.

strobelite
03-15-2005, 06:55 PM
hope you have good luck, as you can see my heads/cam package was shit. Absolute garbage :)

Visceral
03-15-2005, 07:18 PM
Cool.

I just ordered some TEA Stage 3 LQ9 (6.0L) heads from Brent for the 388.

With all the companies having one issue or another with heads, it came down to some AFR 225s or TEA heads. Few others have the spotless reputation I need.

Im sure you will be very happy with the results. The TEA stage 1.5 make some crazy flow for such low a price. The stage 2s dont seem to flow any more :-/

sardog46
03-15-2005, 07:50 PM
TEA 5.3 heads and Futral F13 cam.

Now the question is if :hail: Ellis will want to install them along with the QTP headers, catte Y-pipe and UD pulley....

EEEEEELIIIISSSS where are ya!!!!?????


That should turn out alot like my combo. althouth my valves are bigger on the intake, and the chamber is smalller, are they hand finsihed or just cnc'd? I think i would have gone with mybee something with a little less lift for the street, give you more on the bottom end, but that should make great power up in the revs. What kind of gears you running out back?

TwoFast4Lv
03-15-2005, 10:23 PM
You know I will install them as long as they are not cut ;) I will still be checking Piston to valve clearance. No need to play the MTI game Boyce did and take a chance!

I will PM back with Questions

WS6freak
03-15-2005, 11:29 PM
Look at these flow numbers at several lifts - these heads FLOW.

LS1 5.3 Stage 1.5
Lift---------Intake--------Exhaust
.100---------71.1----------56.4
.200--------141.4----------117.9
.300---------203.5---------170.2
.400---------248.6---------233.7
.500---------282.9---------260.5
.550---------295.9---------265.9
.600---------305.7---------269.5


The Futral F13 cams should fit like a glove (not sure about duration)

F13 = 230"/232" .595"/.585" 112LSA
or
F13 = 230"/230" .595"/.595" 114LSA

Add to this QTPs, ASP pulley, GMMG, Volant CAI and Shaner S3

....a tune.....

and start saving for a stock pile of new tires. :devil:

sardog46
03-16-2005, 09:18 AM
Those flow pretty goodl. Just to put it in pespective my heads flow bout 25-30cfm more all the way 650 lift. Why don't you get a set of ls6 heads, and then just have the weld the chambers to whatever sive you want. The ls6 heads will way ouflow and perform the 5.3's. IMO

Visceral
03-16-2005, 09:50 AM
Those flow pretty goodl. Just to put it in pespective my heads flow bout 25-30cfm more all the way 650 lift. Why don't you get a set of ls6 heads, and then just have the weld the chambers to whatever sive you want. The ls6 heads will way ouflow and perform the 5.3's. IMO

LS6 heads almost double the price of the TEA Stage 1.5 5.3s. You have to go to Stage 2 for the LS6, I believe.

I got lucky with mine because I need a 70cc chamber. LQ9s are LS6 heads with a big chamber and a tiny price. I would not have bought mine if they were only LS6s. Im a po' white chil'.

Visceral
03-16-2005, 09:53 AM
for S's and G's, here's the stage 3 6.0 flow numbers. On a 4.125" bore, they are about 15-20 higher.

6.0L Stage 3
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100 70.6 50.4
0.200 143.1 118.2
0.300 210.9 186.7
0.400 261.1 230.7
0.500 302.9 260.1
0.550 319.0 269.4
0.600 334.0 277.1
0.700 342.9 282.2

:)

sardog46
03-16-2005, 10:43 AM
for S's and G's, here's the stage 3 6.0 flow numbers. On a 4.125" bore, they are about 15-20 higher.

6.0L Stage 3
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100 70.6 50.4
0.200 143.1 118.2
0.300 210.9 186.7
0.400 261.1 230.7
0.500 302.9 260.1
0.550 319.0 269.4
0.600 334.0 277.1
0.700 342.9 282.2

:)


Good thing they flow to .700 cause evryone runs cams that big. :jest:

Those are nice flow numbers, but i got a little higher than that, and my heads probely cost less than half of what you will pay for those!

NataSS Inc
03-16-2005, 10:55 AM
and start saving for a stock pile of new tires. :devil:

And a 12 bolt.

Visceral
03-16-2005, 12:21 PM
Good thing they flow to .700 cause evryone runs cams that big. :jest:

Those are nice flow numbers, but i got a little higher than that, and my heads probely cost less than half of what you will pay for those!

Less than $1k core included???

Brent at TEA is feeling generous these days. He has AFRs to compete with.

Mine came out significantly cheaper than un-ported AFR 225s... which was the competition.

Rottluver
03-16-2005, 01:01 PM
And a 12 bolt.
UGH!!!!! Don't remind me.............another 2-3 grand that I will have to toss down the tubes......

WS6freak
03-16-2005, 01:09 PM
Those flow pretty goodl. Just to put it in pespective my heads flow bout 25-30cfm more all the way 650 lift. Why don't you get a set of ls6 heads, and then just have the weld the chambers to whatever sive you want. The ls6 heads will way ouflow and perform the 5.3's. IMO
Yeah but it all depends what you want to do with the car... I think the TEAs are a *very* good bang for the buck, even more so for me, I'm not a 1/4 mile guy. Will use the car as a daily driver only. :angel: :devil: :angel:

UGH!!!!! Don't remind me.............another 2-3 grand that I will have to toss down the tubes......
No joke... when the time comes I'll prob get a 9 inch. :nod:

Rottluver
03-16-2005, 01:16 PM
No joke... when the time comes I'll prob get a 9 inch. :nod:Just curious, why the 9" over a 12 bolt?

WS6freak
03-16-2005, 01:23 PM
The 12-bolt and 9-inch rears are actually more similar than they are different. The major difference between the two is the design of the housings. The 12-bolt integral design features a carrier case and pinion support that are part of the rearend housing, while the 9-inch employs a drop-out third member that takes advantage of an independent carrier case and pinion support that bolts into the rearend housing.

The typical 9-inch rearend weighs in around 177 pounds (without brakes). A benefit of this design is that its third member can be easily accessed, and the factory components are capable of withstanding even more torque with 31-spline axles.

Another advantage to the 9-inch is that the axles are easier to install and remove. Ford designed the factory 28- and 31-spline axles to be removable by yanking four bolts per axle flange, which allows the axle to slide out. The axles have pressed-on bearings and retainer plates that bolt to the housing flanges. There are no C-clips inside the rearend holding them in place like on a 12-bolt.

The plus here for the 9-inch is that if you break an axle inside the housing, the axle retainer will keep the axle in place. On a 12-bolt, breaking an axle means it slides right out of the housing, causing massive sheetmetal damage along the way. You can convert a 12-bolt to the 9-inch style of axle retention, but it requires a C-clip eliminator kit and modifications to the housing.

:hail: 9 inch

WS6freak
03-16-2005, 01:29 PM
9+ race case, an anodized-aluminum pinion support, a forged yoke, a Detroit locker carrier unit, and a set of 4.11 gears.

BULLET PROOF PERIOD. :D

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0304_nine_7_z.jpg

Tranzor
03-16-2005, 01:33 PM
My 12 bolt has the c-clip eliminator kit, 33 spline axles, with the Eaton HD posi and 4.11s. If my posi blows, I'll be switching to the new 12 bolt Detroit Locker that just came out. :D

Don't forget a new clutch and Groo'd tranny, and a stronger driveshaft... ;) This sh!t adds up quick, don't it?

WAHUSKER
03-16-2005, 01:38 PM
Dang Nick, that's purdy! I want one....oh yeah, I already got one JUST like that.

Good write up BTW.

The other main difference Darrin is the 9" is a wee bit stronger than a 12 bolt. Both internally because the gears are larger, and externally because the axle housing design is stronger because of the solid rear piece. That's why you see guys buying the TA girdles for their 10 & 12 bolts. It firms up that section so the carrier doesn't walk around under power.

And a 9" does require a little more tweaking to make fit. Neither is real bad tho.

sardog46
03-16-2005, 02:14 PM
Yeah but it all depends what you want to do with the car... I think the TEAs are a *very* good bang for the buck, even more so for me, I'm not a 1/4 mile guy. Will use the car as a daily driver only. :angel: :devil: :angel:


No joke... when the time comes I'll prob get a 9 inch. :nod:

I am not saying they are not a good bang for the buck, but i do know that if you go with a head that is bigger than you need, if you get the urge to do something else down the road you don' have to get the heads redone. Just food for thought.

Good call on the nine inch, Many more ratios avail for it. Plus like you said bullet proof, mines been through hell.

sardog46
03-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Dang Nick, that's purdy! I want one....oh yeah, I already got one JUST like that.

Good write up BTW.

The other main difference Darrin is the 9" is a wee bit stronger than a 12 bolt. Both internally because the gears are larger, and externally because the axle housing design is stronger because of the solid rear piece. That's why you see guys buying the TA girdles for their 10 & 12 bolts. It firms up that section so the carrier doesn't walk around under power.

And a 9" does require a little more tweaking to make fit. Neither is real bad tho.

A litttle more tweeaking is right. My ten bolt did not last very long with just a hotcam, but i drove the shit out of that thing.

Rottluver
03-16-2005, 02:21 PM
Wow, hell of a write up, thanks. :hail:

I had heard a rumor that the 9 inch sucks up a few more horsepower then a 12 bolt....is that true?


On a completely different subject, how do you like Mill Creek? I had a friend that lived there years ago and I absolutely loved it when I visited.......it is one of the places I am contemplating buying in.

sardog46
03-16-2005, 02:24 PM
Wow, hell of a write up, thanks. :hail:

I had heard a rumor that the 9 inch sucks up a few more horsepower then a 12 bolt....is that true?


On a completely different subject, how do you like Mill Creek? I had a friend that lived there years ago and I absolutely loved it when I visited.......it is one of the places I am contemplating buying in.

Yhea it eats a little more power, but Hp numbers are just that numbers.

Rottluver
03-16-2005, 02:34 PM
Yhea it eats a little more power, but Hp numbers are just that numbers.
VERY VERY true, I was just curious if it was true and WHY?? I am more concerned with track times then dyno #'s........hell, they said my 315's on 11" rims ate up 4-5 rwhp.....like I frickin care.

Tranzor
03-16-2005, 02:37 PM
VERY VERY true, I was just curious if it was true and WHY?? I am more concerned with track times then dyno #'s........hell, they said my 315's on 11" rims ate up 4-5 rwhp.....like I frickin care.

Bigger and heavier parts... more parasitic loss. That's why the 10 bolt will give you the best dyno numbers, but with the small and fragile parts, it's shrapnel waiting to happen.

Visceral
03-16-2005, 04:15 PM
You guys are talking rear ends here that are more bulletproof than 99% of us need.

I understand folks have adapted the Frod 8.8 into a F-body app. That's gonna be my rear end of choice. My mustang's rear is stupid strong for anythign that any of my cars will need, and the parts are extremely reasonably priced.

Its almost as if we need any rear end OTHER than the one these cars come with.

WS6freak
03-16-2005, 09:23 PM
On a completely different subject, how do you like Mill Creek? I had a friend that lived there years ago and I absolutely loved it when I visited.......it is one of the places I am contemplating buying in.

Mill Creek is nice to live and it is considered "pretty" for a reason - the rules are very strict.

I would say nice place to live, *horrible* place to have a business. I'm a small business owner here and it just plain sucks. The sign code sucks, the people that vote for those codes suck, unless you're a huge company you get nothing. Double standards. While people like the Central Market guys can get away with breaking all sign codes known to man, small guys like me (and there are not many of us left here) struggle with this BS...

Sorry for the rant, I just get like this everytime I think about it.

TwoFast4Lv
03-16-2005, 11:53 PM
Damn good to know! I was looking at business there a while back!

Rottluver
03-17-2005, 11:44 AM
Bigger and heavier parts... more parasitic loss. That's why the 10 bolt will give you the best dyno numbers, but with the small and fragile parts, it's shrapnel waiting to happen.
Makes sense, I just don't mind if it allows me to have the 315's. ;) As for the 10 bolt..........I know, I know........sooner, rather then later. :(
You guys are talking rear ends here that are more bulletproof than 99% of us need.

I understand folks have adapted the Frod 8.8 into a F-body app. That's gonna be my rear end of choice. My mustang's rear is stupid strong for anythign that any of my cars will need, and the parts are extremely reasonably priced.

Its almost as if we need any rear end OTHER than the one these cars come with.
I read some real horror stories on one of these forums about some guy (in Texas I think) who was making custom 8.8's for f-bods. 4-6 month waits beyond the date of completion, excuses and excuses and very few results......but he did have time to go racing on the weekends (the owner/builder). I am sure it is like anything else, if it is just 1 person doing it and the demand exceeds your abilities, it can be hard to say no to new business, but it sure as hell pissed off a LOTTA people. :(
Mill Creek is nice to live and it is considered "pretty" for a reason - the rules are very strict.

I would say nice place to live, *horrible* place to have a business. I'm a small business owner here and it just plain sucks. The sign code sucks, the people that vote for those codes suck, unless you're a huge company you get nothing. Double standards. While people like the Central Market guys can get away with breaking all sign codes known to man, small guys like me (and there are not many of us left here) struggle with this BS...

Sorry for the rant, I just get like this everytime I think about it.
I appreciate the heads up. Like I said, when I was there in 97, I loved it. Seemed very quiet, affordable (compared to L.A.) and peaceful.......I don't see myself opening a business, so I am not too worried, but it is good to know. It is one of several places I have my eye on.

My folks live in Mukilteo and I want to be close to them (less then 60 minutes) when I finaly do pick a place...........they are like my best friends and we have a lotta fun together. Plus, they are looking at buying, repairing and selling houses for their "retirement" and want me to be a part of the operation. :) They are sooooooo good to me. :nod:

WS6freak
03-17-2005, 06:53 PM
I used to live in Huntington Beach, CA and Mill Creek *sucks* compared to that place. That stretch from HB to New Port Beach must be one of the coolest, most nice looking places ever. Ahhhhh I miss the sun, the gilrs, everything.... the atmosphere... Seems like people are kinda stiff up here, maybe it's just the weather. Don't get me wrong, I love the clean air here and a lot of other things. It's just not fair to compare the two places anyway... :)

burbman
03-17-2005, 07:05 PM
My folks live in Mukilteo and I want to be close to them (less then 60 minutes) when I finaly do pick a place...........they are like my best friends and we have a lotta fun together. Plus, they are looking at buying, repairing and selling houses for their "retirement" and want me to be a part of the operation. :) They are sooooooo good to me. :nod:

Rott, I live in North Bend, which is exactly an hour from the in-laws place (at the speed limit, no less) which happens to be about three blocks from your parents. There is no emmissions testing in my zip code, and I am only about half an hour from Bellevue or Downtown Seattle. Prices have been going a little crazy in my neighborhood lately, but probably nothing compared to what you are used to in Cali.

Rottluver
03-18-2005, 12:32 AM
I used to live in Huntington Beach, CA and Mill Creek *sucks* compared to that place. That stretch from HB to New Port Beach must be one of the coolest, most nice looking places ever. Ahhhhh I miss the sun, the gilrs, everything.... the atmosphere... Seems like people are kinda stiff up here, maybe it's just the weather. Don't get me wrong, I love the clean air here and a lot of other things. It's just not fair to compare the two places anyway... :)
I was "supposed" to work for HBPD up until my (now ex) wife talked me out of it cuz she didn't wanna be so far from her parents.......second worst mistake I made with her. :lol:

I do like the Newport/Huntington area, don't get me wrong, but when you need to sell a few dozen kidneys to be able to afford a dump of a house.....somehow it just loses something.
Rott, I live in North Bend, which is exactly an hour from the in-laws place (at the speed limit, no less) which happens to be about three blocks from your parents. There is no emmissions testing in my zip code, and I am only about half an hour from Bellevue or Downtown Seattle. Prices have been going a little crazy in my neighborhood lately, but probably nothing compared to what you are used to in Cali.
I will have to check out that area then........I could tolerate an hour at the speed limit (like I EVER drive that :lol: ) And when the AVERAGE cost of a house in L.A. County is almost $600k........ANYTHING looks better. :(