ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I just installed the TR224 cam along with the comp cam 918's, titanium retainers, ported ls6 oil pump, double roller set, and ls6 intake... well I fired it up and the valvetrain is noisy as hell! It never calmed down, even after 30 minutes of driving. It seems like there is not enough oil getting up there even though I have 50psi oil pressure at idle. It knocks loud as hell and rocks the motor ridiculously. What is wrong?? I've been working on this thing for 8 days and so much has gone wrong it has been ridiculous (guy before me tore the engine down at some point and put things back together pretty shitty). Anyone have any ideas of what is going on? When I take the valve covers off there is definitely oil getting up in there, but the lifters should not be this loud

ArKay99

iTrader: (1)

Are you using stock pushrods? Stock pushrods are 7.380" long. The TR224's cam base circle is .030" smaller than stock. You should be running 7.400" pushrods with all else being equal.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

People run these pushrods all the time and I haven't heard of something like this coming from anyone. I don't see how that would cause all this noise. This is not just a quiet sewing machine sound, this **** is horrendously loud and rocking the engine. I tore it back down again today and nothing is rubbing behind the timing cover. So, it's something in the valvetrain.

zamboxl

iTrader: (1)

what lifters did you installed, i heard there was a bad batch of comp lifters running around alittle while back, if not did you set the correct lifter preload, or torque them down to 22 pounds.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I torqued them down to 22 ft/lbs. Did everything by the book. It's really ridiculous because I did everything by the book. I'm getting up early tomorrow morning to re-tighten the rockers... so i need help ASAP cuz short of that I'm absolutely lost.

LSUxBlake

iTrader: (3)

Is it a single tap you hear? or is it a lot of clattering like all the valves are messed up?

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

It's a lot of clap, like none of them are getting any oil at all. But, in actuality they are, because I removed the valve covers to check. However, they may not be getting "enough" oil up there. I'm not sure. All i know is that there is a huge amount of cackling and the engine rocks like crazy.

EvilTA

Same with my car, started 2 days ago, i'm taking it in the shop on monday, hope its not gonna cost much to fix. I dont have time to fix it now, and i don't want to leave it like that.

TheBlurLS1

iTrader: (8)

which lifters did you install?

which pushrods are you using?

you havent answered either of these questions lol


comp r lifters require adjustable rockers(if you used them). stock pushrods are 7.350, not 7.38, thus causing alot more slack in the system with that TR cam on a smaller base circle, which could mean noise.

plus, since you are hearing it everywhere, you MIGHT have not installed the timing chain gears correctly and the valve timing is off ( what LSU might have been hinting at)

give us some more info! are you positive you're calling the different parts by the right name? you do realize you would have had to pull the HEADS to change the lifters, not just the normal stuff for a simple cam swap (no offense if you are just not telling us this stuff )

from what i've read, there is nothing that is directly pointing to it being the lifters that are loud.

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

stock pushrod length is NOT 7.350.my stock pushrods measured 7.390.this alone shouldn't cause the problems he's talking about.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I'm an idiot TheBlurLS1, I'm talking about new thunder racing pushrods... as you can see I'm worn out from tearing this thing down time and time again. But, I did make sure that my timing was correct. It was incorrect the first time but I realigned it and now it is definitely 100% correct. But, I have started the motor up since and it still knocks and shakes. 66deuce I have never heard of someone having to adjust the rockers to account for the new pushrods. It came with "stock length 7.400 pushrods" from Thunder Racing. And even if they are .01 longer I don't think it would cause this incredible noise. Any other ideas? I'm heading back out to retorque the rockers now and see if that helps... I'm getting pretty damn desperate.

dame

iTrader: (3)

WHAT LIFTERS ARE YOU USING? its only been asked a FEW times bro

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

no,i wasn't saying that you adust the rockers for the new pushrods.there is no adjustment for the stock rockers.that's why there are different length pushrods,to correct any geometry issues when installing a smaller base circle cam,or milled heads for example.are your lifters new?are they stock replacements?as BlurLS1 stated if they are comp Rs then you need adjustable aftermarket rockers.sorry about your problems man,i know your pain.what did the last guy do wrong when he tore the motor down?and did you fix everything he messed up?

Flareside

If you've got oil coming out of the pushrods, you don't have an oiling problem at the lifters. They are full and under pressure if the oil is travelling up the pushrod.

You need to find out what your lifter preload is, torquing the bolts is just not telling you what you need to know. If you don't have a dial indicator to check it properly, you can just use the "1-2 turn" method where you check how many turns of the rocker bolt you get after removing all the free play (make sure the cam/lifter is on the base circle when you check) There are lots of threads in the archive that describe how to do it.

FYI, my 03 LS1 pushrods measure 7.400", and every stock length I've seen outside of internet forums says they are 7.4". Check the websites for Manley, Comp, SDPC, etc., they all say 7.4" stock. I mic's mine and that's what they were.

TheBlurLS1

iTrader: (8)

i have always (from the research i've done) thought the stockers were 7.350, i guess i'll go measure my old ones in a little while.



after i tore my motor down to the shortblock to replace the lifters, i re-assembled it and it wasnt runinng worth a ****. knocking and missing and shaking when revved, but idling relativly smooth. my entire passengerside cylinder bank coil packs were getting no power. check all your fuses, its freeeeeee and might solve your problems. if you're standing beside the drivers front fender, you will see two fuse boxes, the one on the left is the one you need to open. check the top left fuse (mine was blown, and fuse box cover sticker is so screwed i couldnt read it to tell what i was checking ). if it's OK, check all the rest of them before you start going nuts

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

I messed up when I said lifters earlier, I haven't touched those. They are the stock lifters. I am using the thunder racing pushrods that came with the 224 cam. The knock is pretty ridiculous. It started out just on the passenger side valvetrain but now it has spread to the driver's side. When I pull the fuel line fuse and just turn it, the motor turns fine. There is no knocking or anything at all. But, as soon as I start it up, it starts knocking really hard... As for the guy before me, he apparently tore down the engine to the cam and I found that he had stripped a bolt in the cam retainer plate. This along with the spark plug wires being basically welded to the friggin plugs because he apparently never touched them and additionally the pulley not being able to come off without using a rosebud on a torch and heating it up till it was glowing (and then it budged .001"). I can't even tell you how hard it was to get that thing off. Anyways, I've torn everything down and put it all back together a couple times now and I've come to no conclusion. Thanks for the help guys... keep the input coming. I'm taking a break for this week but next weekend I'll be back at it. I would just really like to find out what the hell is happening here. I've had a few guys from neighborhood that have been working on chevy's for 40+ years and they are completely stumped. By the way, I put a compression tester up the cylinders where the noise was initially coming from and I got 180 psi. So I'm not losing compression.

Steve Burger

iTrader: (33)

How many miles are on the car? We just did a cam on a 65K SS and with the spring change and 224 cam profile a few of the lifters collapsed. Same ticking sound you are describing.

DaddySS

Once you get the covers off, turn the motor and check the pushrod clearance - if all you replaced was as stated above and you have good pressure to the lifters it must be a rocker clearance issue. Engine rocking cause the valves aren't operating correctly, lots of tapping - sounds like clearance, rocker, etc. issue.

ArcticZ28

iTrader: (14)

That's what I figured it was, but I can't really check without taking the heads off. I just can't believe one, or more, lifters would collapse on such a small cam. I mean, I know most of the **** is weak in our cars, but this is getting pretty close to hyundai "quality".

I've had the covers off multiple times and turned the engine over and there is no knocking or anything when I do that. That could be a possibility but how? These pushrods are the same length as stock and the rockers are pretty much stationery height on the rocker pedestal. Also, if it was a rocker clearance issue, it would be knocking everywhere, but it was just on the passenger side until today. And now it SEEMS to be moving over to the driver's side as well. But, it's so hard to tell with the noise travel/reverberation/echo in these aluminum motors.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

dude if you had stock lifters collapse on a 224 cam...there is something seriously wrong....
I did an x1 cam...(larger than all the 224 cams) and I did not have any lifter problems
and I know several people that have done WAY larger...and are still using stock lifters on way more lift..and way more agressive ramp rates...and lots of miles on the clock...


ok...back to the real questioning


What was your method of torqing to 22 ft lbs....
did you use a torque wrench?? or did you measure by do the Trhead count method???
some torque wrenches are hard to read...and you get the #'s off...and you do it wrong...and you would get lots of noise..

ALSO...

one quick test for you... find out exactly which cylinders are really making all the noise...use a screw drive/stethescope..or the more $ mechanics version....
with the engine running...pull the spark plug wire...IF it stops making noise...you might have a spun bearing...or maybe a couple of them....might have gotten a piece of metal in there somehow...and it might have chewed up bearings....
if you pulled the fuel fuse and it did the same thing...got quiet with no fuel...then that is another indication of possible spun bearing(s)
also...could just be a tuning issue....Might be Knock or worse..pre-detonation...would make that same horrible racket..and would go away without fuel