Pontiac GTO 2004-2006 - Does anyone know any tricks I can pull to beat an 03 vette with my 04 gto?




skelly
04-14-2005, 04:58 PM
Hey all,

This is my first posting here. I bought an '04 GTO in Oct-04. Quicksilver, 6-speed. I'm absolutely loving it.

I'm racing a buddy on the quarter mile track at Joliet Speedway this coming saturday. He has an '03 vette, 6-speed. Now, this is just a friendly race and I'm pretty sure he'll beat me, what with the weight and traction advantage of the corvette, and I'm more or less cool with that, but part of me still wants to put up a good fight.

Back when I was a teen we used to do little tricks like pull the air cleaner off our 70's camaros to make them breathe better. I read in one of the car mags that they were able to get a stock 04 GTO to run a faster quarter mile by deflating the rear tires a bit for better traction.

Having said all of this, does anyone know of any other little tricks I can pull on my bone-stock gto to get an edge on a bone-stock 03 vette? Pull out the spare tire?

Also - is it any danger to my engine if I run racing gas or octane boost?


YlwGTO4m3
04-14-2005, 05:19 PM
Deflate rear tires a few pounds will help
Taking out spare tire and any extra weight, aftermarket subs...etc
fill gas tank to only about an 1/8 of tank max
If you're not worried about your tranny then power shift that bitch
keep your engine cool by turning on the fan and opening the windows in the line for the strip, if you're at a track
Do not do a burn out, go around the water if they have it
the stock 245's are a whore, you gotta use a lot of clutch to get a good 60ft time.
bottom line he is lighter and has bigger tires and should beat you by about .5 seconds or so, driver dependent of course.
Practice.
good luck

Chivo
04-14-2005, 06:00 PM
DO NOT run racing gas or octance. Ran that stuff and ran 14.4 in my goat. Went back the next week without the gas and ran 13.3. DONT DO IT


Matt SS
04-14-2005, 06:48 PM
Definatly take out any extra weight. But the bottom line is he is lighter, more areodynamic, and has wider tires. You might put up a good fight.

burbman
04-14-2005, 07:17 PM
If he's in a 6 speed too, you might have a chance, as shifting can be the great equalizer. Maybe you could put your spare, and any other weight you can find into his car to even things up a bit.

WAHUSKER
04-14-2005, 07:19 PM
Well if it means that much to you, for 1 run you could disconnect the air tube from the filter box. "They say" that a cold air intake box adds 20hp to these GTOs, so that would make a noticeable difference. But I'd stop at the end of the track & hook it right back up. You remember how that would destroy the rings on a motor pretty quick.....the air didn't get any cleaner since the 70s!

BlueSix
04-14-2005, 09:36 PM
Drop the rear tires to 25 psi, up the fronts to 45 psi. Pull out all the excess weight you can, only have about 1/8 tank of gas. Drive around the water box. Do a burnout to clean off the tires. I'm still experimenting with how much is too much, but i hooked better after a 10 second burnout than after a 3 second one. Slip the clutch at 3000. Shift at 5900-6000 and never take your foot off the gas.

V-seriesTech
04-15-2005, 06:41 AM
Hey all,

This is my first posting here. I bought an '04 GTO in Oct-04. Quicksilver, 6-speed. I'm absolutely loving it.

I'm racing a buddy on the quarter mile track at Joliet Speedway this coming saturday. He has an '03 vette, 6-speed. Now, this is just a friendly race and I'm pretty sure he'll beat me, what with the weight and traction advantage of the corvette, and I'm more or less cool with that, but part of me still wants to put up a good fight.

Back when I was a teen we used to do little tricks like pull the air cleaner off our 70's camaros to make them breathe better. I read in one of the car mags that they were able to get a stock 04 GTO to run a faster quarter mile by deflating the rear tires a bit for better traction.

Having said all of this, does anyone know of any other little tricks I can pull on my bone-stock gto to get an edge on a bone-stock 03 vette? Pull out the spare tire?

Also - is it any danger to my engine if I run racing gas or octane boost?



You can try nitrous :devil:

If thats too drastic, try the pit manuver. :drive:

skelly
04-15-2005, 11:42 AM
Thanks y'all. Sounds good. I'll post the results and possibly an mpeg if I don't get totally smoked.

Snafu
04-15-2005, 02:33 PM
Remove your driver's side headlight...seriously.

The openings that funnel the air to the filter box come from behind the headlight, when you remove it, you get a ram-air "effect". It's a trick the Aussies showed us...never tried it personally, but it's said to be good for some time/power.

Do not remove the air tube...from idle to WOT, you'll be all messed up. The MAF needs to read something to adjust your fuel tables...if you bypass it, it can get pretty screwy.

SDB
04-15-2005, 02:49 PM
put on a wet kit and jet it to 100 shot, change plugs to TR6's gapped at .038, use 93 octane, shift nie and easy, go aroudn the vette at mid track...

xp3nd4bl3
04-15-2005, 03:32 PM
Two words:

Sneaky Pete!

OR:

Red Light

:D

skelly
04-15-2005, 04:28 PM
It's going to be hard to look all nonchallant/"I don't give a shit if I win" after I pull the spare tire, remove a headlight, flattern my tires and drive around the wet-spot, and have a pre-race colon-flush to drop weight.

However, it's mostly great (sounding) advice and I'll probably use all of it.

Rob
04-15-2005, 05:19 PM
I got the best short times when stock running 30psi, driving around the water box, and just spinning the tires by nailing it in first gear...no burnout. Bring rpm up to 3000 or so and release the clutch fast, no dumping, while doing the same on the accelerator. This technique got a few 1.9x short times.

This was with 1/2 tank of gas and a racing weight of 3960 with me in it. Got it down to 13.2x, probably could have done a little better with more practice. Started doing mods after that :)

2Cool
04-15-2005, 09:33 PM
Let the air out of the rear tires...



His rear tires...



Heh...

maximental
04-15-2005, 11:12 PM
Pull the valves out of the valve stems on his tires, forcing him to forfeit until he finds some replacements. :naughty: j/k
I heard about the taking out the headlight thing from a guy at work, and then a couple of days later, someone else told me about it, so apparently there is something to it.
I was going to go dragracing tonight, but got rained out. :argh:
I hope you have better luck.

Maximental

Tom@SpeedInc
04-16-2005, 05:25 AM
Your gonna have to launch at 4000 and powershift at 5200-5400rpm. By powershift I mean wide open throttle and shift with your foot to the floor, if you shift any higher then 5400 you will go over 6200+rpm in the next gear, may hit the rev limiter and slow you down. practice powershifting. Be carefull not to miss 3rd gear! I used to aim for 5th gear till I got the ripshift :)

You may want to go to speed inc. in schamburg and pic up their GTO cold air induction, its been known to add 15rwhp.

Take out the fuel tank guard, remove all the clips from the middle trim pieace in the trunk. And take the 18mm (?) bolts out from the bottom and 13mm bolts from the top and you save 25-30lbs. Removing spare tire and jack will add another 15lbs weight loss.

Tom@SpeedInc
04-16-2005, 05:26 AM
It's going to be hard to look all nonchallant/"I don't give a shit if I win" after I pull the spare tire, remove a headlight, flattern my tires and drive around the wet-spot, and have a pre-race colon-flush to drop weight.

However, it's mostly great (sounding) advice and I'll probably use all of it.
In order to remove any front headlight from the GTO you have to remove the bumper cover.

Tom@SpeedInc
04-16-2005, 05:33 AM
DO NOT run racing gas or octance. Ran that stuff and ran 14.4 in my goat. Went back the next week without the gas and ran 13.3. DONT DO IT

You can run unleaded racing fuel, the street just before rt 66 on the north side of the track you go down that road their a road pilot gas station there that sells 100 unleaded, don't buy their 110 gas its leaded :)

octane booster does jack shit.

ps, make a few passes before you race, it took me about 6-7 runs to get a better time in the GTO. A buddy of mine took estimated 45 passes till he could get low 13s.

xp3nd4bl3
04-16-2005, 07:16 PM
Race gas on a stock GTO probably won't do anything for you.

I also don't think short-shifting at 5200 RPMs is very sound advice. You'd be giving up a bunch of power.

Jpr5690
04-16-2005, 07:53 PM
Headders And Cam Should Do It Easily

BlueSix
04-16-2005, 07:54 PM
Your gonna have to launch at 4000 and powershift at 5200-5400rpm. By powershift I mean wide open throttle and shift with your foot to the floor, if you shift any higher then 5400 you will go over 6200+rpm in the next gear, may hit the rev limiter and slow you down. practice powershifting. Be carefull not to miss 3rd gear! I used to aim for 5th gear till I got the ripshift :)


I was powershifting at 6200 when i first took the car to the track and never tagged the limiter. I found better times shifting between 6000 and 6100. Next time i will start shifting at 5700 and move up until i start going slower. How will shifting at 5400 cause him to go over 6200 in the next gear?

Bang those gears like a two dollar hooker!

Qwik03
04-18-2005, 09:53 AM
Un-plug 3 of his spark plug wires! :jest:

We all know thats the only way a stock GTO will beat a vett! :devil:

skelly
04-18-2005, 05:57 PM
Well, despite all the advice I got beat pretty good by the 'vette - I didn't try the headlight trick. It was my first time on the track and I must say it ain't as easy as it would seem. Getting that GTO to hook up when the light hit was quite a challenge. When my stock tires are trashed I'm going to look into folding the fenders and getting some 275's back there.

There were a few other goats out that day - noone fared much better and the concensus was that noone could get decent traction off the line.

I'm thinking that a useful mod would be to relocate the traction control button to a trigger-style switch on the front of the shift knob. Take the hit on HP during the launch to get it rolling, and then immediately kill the TractionControl at about 3/4k rpm in 1st gear and leave it off for the rest of the run (assuming there's no delay between hitting the switch and the TC actually turning off).

SDB
04-18-2005, 06:13 PM
Well, despite all the advice I got beat pretty good by the 'vette - I didn't try the headlight trick. It was my first time on the track and I must say it ain't as easy as it would seem. Getting that GTO to hook up when the light hit was quite a challenge. When my stock tires are trashed I'm going to look into folding the fenders and getting some 275's back there.

There were a few other goats out that day - noone fared much better and the concensus was that noone could get decent traction off the line.

I'm thinking that a useful mod would be to relocate the traction control button to a trigger-style switch on the front of the shift knob. Take the hit on HP during the launch to get it rolling, and then immediately kill the TractionControl at about 3/4k rpm in 1st gear and leave it off for the rest of the run (assuming there's no delay between hitting the switch and the TC actually turning off).

No offense, but everything you said is dead wrong....
1.) ALWAYS turn off traction control when racing (or driving for that matter)...there is NO WAY TO MAKE IT WORK FOR RACING!!!

2.) Don't mess with the fenders, you can get a 275 Nitto drag radial on back with no problems...its not the size of the tire, its the compound that makes it hook...

3.) practice is the main thing in launching and getting good times. What is the time slip like...60', 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, and speed...?

4.) Your not going to beat a newer vette without mods, given equal drivers.

5.) If you mod you GTO, do the stuff that actuall makes power...and thats proven....150 wet shot, Cam/heads, etc. The blowers aren't all that proven yet.

Hope this helps...

SDB

skelly
04-20-2005, 03:16 PM
No offense, but everything you said is dead wrong....
1.) ALWAYS turn off traction control when racing (or driving for that matter)...there is NO WAY TO MAKE IT WORK FOR RACING!!!

2.) Don't mess with the fenders, you can get a 275 Nitto drag radial on back with no problems...its not the size of the tire, its the compound that makes it hook...

3.) practice is the main thing in launching and getting good times. What is the time slip like...60', 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, and speed...?

4.) Your not going to beat a newer vette without mods, given equal drivers.

5.) If you mod you GTO, do the stuff that actuall makes power...and thats proven....150 wet shot, Cam/heads, etc. The blowers aren't all that proven yet.

Hope this helps...

SDB

"Dead Wrong" may be a bit harsh of a term.

While you may or may not be right about the traction control, I'm not sure if you read correctly. Everyone who has read anything in the GTO section knows that the TC robs power - I'm certainly not doubting that. However, when I was at the track, anyone in a GTO who did anything other than baby the car for the first 20 or so feet wound up sitting there, motionless, spinning their tires on the starting line. At least with the TC you get as much acceleration as possible in that first second off the line. This of course, will kill your overall time if you leave it on. The theory was that if you could use the TC for max power until you're rolling - I'm talking about 20-30 feet, then shut it down, you might do OK because it won't rob you of power as you hit the hard acceleration portion of your powerband as you run through the gears. If there's any appreciable delay between hitting the button and the TC actually disengaging, then my little idea is null and void.

And 275's in the back would just look cooler. Traction was a big factor in the corvette's beating me - it's a friend of mine and it was his first time at the track, too. He's not some superb, experienced quarter mile driver, and it was his Dad's corvette, so he hadn't really had much experience in the car. He launched pretty hard when that light hit; I think that had something to do with those 275's he had on back.

BlueSix
04-20-2005, 03:34 PM
I don't need any traction control to help me cut 2.0's. Several individuals have cut sub 1.9's on the stock rubber, TC off. I'm shooting for 1.9's myself the next time i go out.

TX_SS
04-20-2005, 03:35 PM
given equal driver...STOCK VS STOCK... you cant beat it.....

SDB
04-20-2005, 04:39 PM
dead wrong was the right term.......GET THE IDEA OF USING TC AS A RACING AID OUT OF YOUR HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it will not work, what you need is practice, plain and simple. I cut 2.0 on stock tires first time out easily...but I drag race a lot on the street and am used to driving a car out of the hole. Just get some Nitto DR's on there at 25 psi and practice...be prepared to buy a new clutch after a little while if your practicing a lot....a buddy of ine just spent thousands on his clutch, tranny due to abuse (8,000 miles in one summer, mostly racing), BUT he got the the point where he could cut 1.70 short times on stock Goodyear F1 tires on his 2002 Z06 vette....making power costs money, practicing costs money, geting the most of a stock combination costs money (broken parts).....

You will never beat the vette given fairly equal drivers without some serious mods...so get busy moddin'!!!! Throw a 150 shot on it and beat him by 6 cars with easy shifting.

skelly
04-21-2005, 02:39 PM
dead wrong was the right term.......GET THE IDEA OF USING TC AS A RACING AID OUT OF YOUR HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it will not work, what you need is practice, plain and simple. I cut 2.0 on stock tires first time out easily...but I drag race a lot on the street and am used to driving a car out of the hole. Just get some Nitto DR's on there at 25 psi and practice...be prepared to buy a new clutch after a little while if your practicing a lot....a buddy of ine just spent thousands on his clutch, tranny due to abuse (8,000 miles in one summer, mostly racing), BUT he got the the point where he could cut 1.70 short times on stock Goodyear F1 tires on his 2002 Z06 vette....making power costs money, practicing costs money, geting the most of a stock combination costs money (broken parts).....

You will never beat the vette given fairly equal drivers without some serious mods...so get busy moddin'!!!! Throw a 150 shot on it and beat him by 6 cars with easy shifting.


You're right - I should just throw money at the problem & leave the creativity & innovation to someone else.

SDB
04-21-2005, 03:21 PM
wel, yes in a nutshell....there is NO aount of creativity that will let you use factory TC to enhance drag strip performance....and you will not win against a car that has the same motor/tranny/gearing (mostly) AND has 500+lbs less weight, better traction, and better aerodynamics....not trying to be mean, but your gonna waste a lot of time on creativity when a $1000 in mods will ass rape the vette...just my .02...

SDB

skelly
04-22-2005, 04:42 PM
wel, yes in a nutshell....there is NO aount of creativity that will let you use factory TC to enhance drag strip performance....and you will not win against a car that has the same motor/tranny/gearing (mostly) AND has 500+lbs less weight, better traction, and better aerodynamics....not trying to be mean, but your gonna waste a lot of time on creativity when a $1000 in mods will ass rape the vette...just my .02...

SDB

In the latter posts I was speaking more to improving traction than to beating 'vettes.

Based on your unflappable confidence, I assume then that you have tried it in the way I sugested? Have you taken your goat to a real race track and tried using TC for the 1st second of your run and then turned it off w/o affecting your shift? I was looking for a reply from someone who had done this, or at least someone who could at least lend some more meaningful insight than 'a vette is lighter' or 'get a nitrous kit'.

I'd have taken "it probably won't work" as an answer and replied with a 'thank you', but when people use the term 'dead wrong' and then don't go into specifics as to why... ..the term 'armchair quarterback' comes to mind.

Rob
04-22-2005, 05:41 PM
Problem with using T/C is the serious down turn in power that comes into play. All the timing is pulled on the engine side of the T/C. It takes a little while before you are back into full timing again negating any help that it would have given to begin with.

Takes practice, but learning how to launch will be the best thing for ET. Took me 4 trips to the track to figure out how to cut sub 2.0 times. Now with Nittos, I'm learning all over again...

SDB
04-23-2005, 11:20 AM
In the latter posts I was speaking more to improving traction than to beating 'vettes.

Based on your unflappable confidence, I assume then that you have tried it in the way I sugested? Have you taken your goat to a real race track and tried using TC for the 1st second of your run and then turned it off w/o affecting your shift? I was looking for a reply from someone who had done this, or at least someone who could at least lend some more meaningful insight than 'a vette is lighter' or 'get a nitrous kit'.

I'd have taken "it probably won't work" as an answer and replied with a 'thank you', but when people use the term 'dead wrong' and then don't go into specifics as to why... ..the term 'armchair quarterback' comes to mind.

I have a low 12 second 2004 GTO and a 10 second 2000 Camaro...I go to the track and race on the street every chance I get. I use a GTECH to see how the street is in terms of changes I make to the launch or parts. I have been doing this since 1990, and recently sold a LPE 383 vette that ran 10's as well....if you want to waste your time fucking with TCS, go right ahead, just trying to sace you some time. have fun looking at the rear end of vettes, camaros, TA's, and lots of other newer cars...

02SOMWS6
04-23-2005, 06:15 PM
some cheap mods would be some type of cold air kit,not sure what they offer for a GTO but there has to be something better than stock to direct air into the airbox, bypass the power steering -just for the track, it only takes about 3 min. to change a belt . Drop tire psi. down to 15 and leave off idle. Stock tires will just spin if you try to leave to hard.Before I did H&C I just had bolt on's and gears ,tires and would spank any stock Z06 I lined up with. A sticky set of tires would be a great start for now, or you could always just stick to the street. If you start going to the track you will get hooked and addicted to hooking up your car and end up spending thousands so you should think that over

NVigR8
04-25-2005, 03:38 PM
wel, yes in a nutshell....there is NO aount of creativity that will let you use factory TC to enhance drag strip performance....

:stupid:

I have pulled sub 1.9 sec 60' times numerous times on the stock rubber, TCS doesn't work for launching the car fastest, period.

SsZERO
04-26-2005, 03:16 AM
Challenge him to a relay style race. Let him beat you to the other end, and when he does the u-turn to come back, get in his lane and floor it. He will hesitate for a moment, then he will swerve off the road and into someone's yard. You will then have an easy win on your hands.

redvpsenator
04-28-2005, 09:51 PM
In the hot tropics in north Australia some dry ice in the air box works, don't know agout the temperature there, good luck. :drive:

BlueSix
04-28-2005, 11:06 PM
In the hot tropics in north Australia some dry ice in the air box works, don't know agout the temperature there, good luck. :drive:

Come again? that sounds like it might just be crazy enough to be functional!

SsZERO
04-29-2005, 01:03 AM
Just an FYI - If his vette is close to stock, it's probably running 13.2-13.6...so VS a GTO you might actually have a chance if you drive right. I've pulled pretty hard on some C5 Vettes in my WS6 (when it just had an intake and exhaust) at the track and on the street. If it is a Z06 or C6, expect to lose unless he is a bad driver or you do some mods like nitrous.

redvpsenator
04-29-2005, 09:38 PM
BlueSix, Not pulling your leg, works on hot summer nights here, the cold air is good for a few more horsepower.Mainly used by the street boys,cheers gazza

LiqTenExp
05-02-2005, 05:29 PM
In the hot tropics in north Australia some dry ice in the air box works, don't know agout the temperature there, good luck. :drive:

In or on the air box?

In the air box would introduce C02 into the intake of the car. Its displacing something and if its oxygen well thats not good. Doesn't make too much sense, even if you strapped it to the air box, the air exists in that small area for such a small amount of time before it continues its trip into the engine that it couldn't help.

SsZERO
05-02-2005, 05:35 PM
Dry Ice: Australian for nitrous. :D

Angus66
05-02-2005, 11:35 PM
I have a low 12 second 2004 GTO

Since when is a 12.5 "low 12's"??? :huh:

Sounds like "mid 12's" to me... ;)

skelly
05-03-2005, 02:32 PM
In or on the air box?

In the air box would introduce C02 into the intake of the car. Its displacing something and if its oxygen well thats not good. Doesn't make too much sense, even if you strapped it to the air box, the air exists in that small area for such a small amount of time before it continues its trip into the engine that it couldn't help.


I minored in Chemistry in college - not that it's some almighty achievement or anything - but I'll speak from my too-long ago education: Although dry ice may give off CO2, the rate at which it 'subliminates' (goes from a solid to a gas w/o passing theough a liquid-phase) is going to be pretty low compared to the amount of air flowing through the LS1 airbox. I don't know exactly how much air an LS1 sucks up, but my old 302-mustag (back in the day) had a Holley 650 cfm carb... ..meaning that it can suck 650 cubic feet of air per minute. That's a lot of air, and I'm sure the LS1 has = or better airflow... ...so I'd bet that the amount/concerntation of CO2 being let off in that kind of airflow/volume from a chunk of dry-ice would be very small.

Now, if you left a block of dry ice in the airbox overnight with the engine off & tried to start it in the morning you'd probably have problems.

Just my 2 cents.

redvpsenator
05-06-2005, 11:42 AM
Liquid ten axp, Of course you are right, sure, just wonder why the air box gets so cold then.Maybe the cold moisture on the outside was leaking out the radiator???

XTrooper
05-13-2005, 02:52 PM
You're right - I should just throw money at the problem & leave the creativity & innovation to someone else.

All the "creativity and innovation" in the world isn't going to win you a race against a Corvette, serious driver error excluded.