Need a straight answer.....
04-28-2005, 04:16 PM
#1
Need a straight answer..... Ok guys, I've done searches trying to find an answer but haven't found what I wanted so here's my question: (please read entire thread before replying)
How exactly will an A4 car with a stock converter behave with an ASA cam, or even the hotcam (untuned & tuned)? Now lets stay on topic here, I've reasearched a bunch about cams and once the swap is done I'm never changing valve springs again, so no cam recommendations please. I originally thought the hotcam was what I wanted but after looking at the ASA it would suit my goals too, and I have the opportunity to pick one up for very cheap.
With that said, here's why I'm asking this: Like I said, I found a helluva deal on an ASA cam. I've got most of the supporting boltons for a cam (minus intake, tb & pulley), and have the cash now to do the swap. I'm going to be pulling the A4 and swapping to a t56 within a year (or less hopefully) so I don't want to put any money into my A4 since I'm pulling it anyway. This is a street car---I've owned the car since '99 and have yet to take it to the track, so 1/4 mile times are not on the top of my priority list. All the responses I've read to questions like mine have been "it's gonna suck", "you won't be happy" or "It'll be a handful". Those are all subjective to me. I'd like somebody to actually explain how the car will behave with this cam untuned and tuned (it'll get tuned), and I'll decide if I'll be able to tolerate it for a few months until the t56 and 4.10's go in. There's got to be somebody out there that can give me a straight answer. Whew....I think that's everything. Thanks in advance for any help guys!
How exactly will an A4 car with a stock converter behave with an ASA cam, or even the hotcam (untuned & tuned)? Now lets stay on topic here, I've reasearched a bunch about cams and once the swap is done I'm never changing valve springs again, so no cam recommendations please. I originally thought the hotcam was what I wanted but after looking at the ASA it would suit my goals too, and I have the opportunity to pick one up for very cheap.
With that said, here's why I'm asking this: Like I said, I found a helluva deal on an ASA cam. I've got most of the supporting boltons for a cam (minus intake, tb & pulley), and have the cash now to do the swap. I'm going to be pulling the A4 and swapping to a t56 within a year (or less hopefully) so I don't want to put any money into my A4 since I'm pulling it anyway. This is a street car---I've owned the car since '99 and have yet to take it to the track, so 1/4 mile times are not on the top of my priority list. All the responses I've read to questions like mine have been "it's gonna suck", "you won't be happy" or "It'll be a handful". Those are all subjective to me. I'd like somebody to actually explain how the car will behave with this cam untuned and tuned (it'll get tuned), and I'll decide if I'll be able to tolerate it for a few months until the t56 and 4.10's go in. There's got to be somebody out there that can give me a straight answer. Whew....I think that's everything. Thanks in advance for any help guys!
04-28-2005, 04:28 PM
#2
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i don't have experience with the asa cam,but to give you an example when i did my H/C(see sig for the cam specs) i drove it for a few days before the TC was installed.it was definately slower out of the hole and untuned had some surging issues.and the asa cam is a lot bigger.IMO i would just wait until you swap trannys.even tuned i think you will have drivability issues and the car will be a complete dog out of the hole.
04-28-2005, 04:34 PM
#3
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Do not put it in before swapping trannies or getting a converter. It won't be worth it. They are right.
What will happen is that it will have to idle at, ho let's say near 1,000 RPM or higher to run properly and at that speed it will be engaging the stock converter to the point that it will pull as if you put the pedal partially down when stock. It will make it difficult to drive and difficult to keep running. Now, that is going on what EVERYBODY says. I haven't experienced it first hand, as most people havn't. It's just something that you do NOT want to do.
What will happen is that it will have to idle at, ho let's say near 1,000 RPM or higher to run properly and at that speed it will be engaging the stock converter to the point that it will pull as if you put the pedal partially down when stock. It will make it difficult to drive and difficult to keep running. Now, that is going on what EVERYBODY says. I haven't experienced it first hand, as most people havn't. It's just something that you do NOT want to do.
04-28-2005, 04:47 PM
#4
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
Do not put it in before swapping trannies or getting a converter. It won't be worth it. They are right.
What will happen is that it will have to idle at, ho let's say near 1,000 RPM or higher to run properly and at that speed it will be engaging the stock converter to the point that it will pull as if you put the pedal partially down when stock. It will make it difficult to drive and difficult to keep running. Now, that is going on what EVERYBODY says. I haven't experienced it first hand, as most people havn't. It's just something that you do NOT want to do.
What will happen is that it will have to idle at, ho let's say near 1,000 RPM or higher to run properly and at that speed it will be engaging the stock converter to the point that it will pull as if you put the pedal partially down when stock. It will make it difficult to drive and difficult to keep running. Now, that is going on what EVERYBODY says. I haven't experienced it first hand, as most people havn't. It's just something that you do NOT want to do.
Do you really think the ASA will take 1000+ rpm to idle? I've seen guys on here with pretty big cams that idle slower than that.
If the above is in fact true, the hotcam isn't nearly as big.....how would that cam behave? I'm definitely not putting a converter in.....it would be a waste of money since I'm going m6. Thanks for the answers!.....keep 'em coming!
04-28-2005, 05:06 PM
#5
ASA cam = 226/236 .525/.525 110 LSA
I know you don't want to mess with a converter, but will you be getting a PCM tune? Without a tune, I think it will be trying die every time you come to a stop. What's the stock idle speed on a A4, 550 rpm? This 230 duration cam on a 110 LSA is not going to idle reliably that slow. It will idle at the M6 stock speed, 800, but it will be more happy at 950 to 1000 rpm. You will need to stop with both feet, one on the brake and one on the gas, and be ready to quickly shove it into neutral so it isn't fighting the torque converter. Then when you put it in drive to take off, it's going to really jerk the drivetrain because you will be peddling the gas to keep it going. Not saying you can't do it, but it will be a pain. If you have a wife, I guarantee she won't want to drive it.
I know you don't want to mess with a converter, but will you be getting a PCM tune? Without a tune, I think it will be trying die every time you come to a stop. What's the stock idle speed on a A4, 550 rpm? This 230 duration cam on a 110 LSA is not going to idle reliably that slow. It will idle at the M6 stock speed, 800, but it will be more happy at 950 to 1000 rpm. You will need to stop with both feet, one on the brake and one on the gas, and be ready to quickly shove it into neutral so it isn't fighting the torque converter. Then when you put it in drive to take off, it's going to really jerk the drivetrain because you will be peddling the gas to keep it going. Not saying you can't do it, but it will be a pain. If you have a wife, I guarantee she won't want to drive it.
Last edited by Cal; 04-28-2005 at 05:12 PM.
04-28-2005, 05:42 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Cal
ASA cam = 226/236 .525/.525 110 LSA
I know you don't want to mess with a converter, but will you be getting a PCM tune? Without a tune, I think it will be trying die every time you come to a stop. What's the stock idle speed on a A4, 550 rpm? This 230 duration cam on a 110 LSA is not going to idle reliably that slow. It will idle at the M6 stock speed, 800, but it will be more happy at 950 to 1000 rpm. You will need to stop with both feet, one on the brake and one on the gas, and be ready to quickly shove it into neutral so it isn't fighting the torque converter. Then when you put it in drive to take off, it's going to really jerk the drivetrain because you will be peddling the gas to keep it going. Not saying you can't do it, but it will be a pain. If you have a wife, I guarantee she won't want to drive it.
I know you don't want to mess with a converter, but will you be getting a PCM tune? Without a tune, I think it will be trying die every time you come to a stop. What's the stock idle speed on a A4, 550 rpm? This 230 duration cam on a 110 LSA is not going to idle reliably that slow. It will idle at the M6 stock speed, 800, but it will be more happy at 950 to 1000 rpm. You will need to stop with both feet, one on the brake and one on the gas, and be ready to quickly shove it into neutral so it isn't fighting the torque converter. Then when you put it in drive to take off, it's going to really jerk the drivetrain because you will be peddling the gas to keep it going. Not saying you can't do it, but it will be a pain. If you have a wife, I guarantee she won't want to drive it.
04-28-2005, 06:59 PM
#7
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It will probably drive in the manner he described even once tuned due to the increased idle speed. The higher the idle is raised the worse it will pull, the lower it idles the more you will have to put your foot on the gas and/or throw it into neutral. IT's a PITA, trust me, my MS3 was like that before I got it tuned.
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04-28-2005, 07:41 PM
#8
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my asa (a4) idles at around 650 or so. stock converter too. it's not that bad as people describe it to be from a dead stop. i know a stall will be 100x better, but i can't complain for having a stock converter. 
04-28-2005, 07:46 PM
#9
untuned, like ***. helped buddy install the HC and on stock tune it would barely hold idle and once you put it in D it'd stall out. stock in gear idle for the 4l60e is ~500, for the t56 is ~800. thats why manuals can "get away" with a larger cam on stock tuning. you can drill the TB out to help with that but just hold off until you can afford proper tuning.
04-28-2005, 09:29 PM
#11
"my asa (a4) idles at around 650 or so. stock converter too. it's not that bad as people describe it to be from a dead stop. i know a stall will be 100x better, but i can't complain for having a stock converter. "
White00ws6--that's what I was looking for....someone who actually did it. Thanks! I'd be able to tune it when I install it, so it would only run on the stock tune long enough for me to figure out what to change. Thanks for all the replies!!
White00ws6--that's what I was looking for....someone who actually did it. Thanks! I'd be able to tune it when I install it, so it would only run on the stock tune long enough for me to figure out what to change. Thanks for all the replies!!
Last edited by jmm98LS1; 04-28-2005 at 09:59 PM.
04-29-2005, 01:45 AM
#12
i would get a 3000 or so.. will actually help it drive better imo...
my 232/234 fms f14, drives nice untuned with a 750 idle, 725ish in gear, lopes nice, and the stall is a 3k and 3.23's in the rear, thsi was supposed to be impossible too, but it pulled like a mutherphocker even down low! and i dont think i will raise the idle past 750.. cam is on a 114lsa tho and urs is on a lot tighter one!
my 232/234 fms f14, drives nice untuned with a 750 idle, 725ish in gear, lopes nice, and the stall is a 3k and 3.23's in the rear, thsi was supposed to be impossible too, but it pulled like a mutherphocker even down low! and i dont think i will raise the idle past 750.. cam is on a 114lsa tho and urs is on a lot tighter one!
04-29-2005, 11:48 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by white00ws6
my asa (a4) idles at around 650 or so. stock converter too. it's not that bad as people describe it to be from a dead stop. i know a stall will be 100x better, but i can't complain for having a stock converter.
04-29-2005, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
You have an ASA Hotcam idling at ~650 rpm on a stock converter?
04-29-2005, 04:29 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by white00ws6
its the asa cam, the hotcam is a different seperate cam. but yes, it idles at 650 on stock converter. no problems, never dies.
That's something. How does the ASA sound at 650 rpm?
04-29-2005, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by white00ws6
its the asa cam, the hotcam is a different seperate cam. but yes, it idles at 650 on stock converter. no problems, never dies.
04-30-2005, 12:22 AM
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well i don't mean to offend you guys who don't believe me, but i am infact doing this, and it doesn't die, or has the urge to die. i could care less if you guys believe me, cuz i know it's being done. everyone is entitled to your own opinion.
oh and i do have a clip, just to let u know. just no where to host it.
oh and i do have a clip, just to let u know. just no where to host it.
