What can cause a roller lifter to turn during operation?
05-11-2005, 11:31 AM
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What can cause a roller lifter to turn during operation? I keep hearing about the potential for a roller lifter to turn in the bore, and am trying to understand how exactly that can happen...what could cause it. Does it have anything to do with the lifter cups or ??? Thanks in advance for the info...very curious.
05-11-2005, 11:38 AM
#2
I believe it does have to do with the lifter cups. On close examination, you can see that one of mine was molded wrong with the lifter on an angle. Another theory I have is that tiny little bolt in the middle of the lifter guide can't keep the plastic from flexing. If the plastic bends up far enough, it could allow a lifter to drop low enough to turn, especially with a smaller base circle cam. I rebuilt mine with steel bars and larger bolts to stabilize the cups.
05-11-2005, 11:41 AM
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Yep, extremely small base circles will allow the body to come out of the plastic guide and turn on ya. I think the morels are a longer body which prevents this but I'm not posative.
05-11-2005, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal
I believe it does have to do with the lifter cups. On close examination, you can see that one of mine was molded wrong with the lifter on an angle. Another theory I have is that tiny little bolt in the middle of the lifter guide can't keep the plastic from flexing. If the plastic bends up far enough, it could allow a lifter to drop low enough to turn, especially with a smaller base circle cam. I rebuilt mine with steel bars and larger bolts to stabilize the cups.
05-11-2005, 01:35 PM
#6
They've been in there for about 2,000 miles with no problems. I milled the steel pieces out of 1/4" mild steel. I also drilled out the bolt holes and tapped them for the next larger size bolt. I've got the engine appart right now for other reasons, and it looks like all the lifters are rolling straight and no gouges in the cam. I'll post some pics tonight after work.
05-11-2005, 02:11 PM
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I think Crane makes some longer lifters also. But then you need special short pushrods to work with them.[/QUOTE]
You are partially correct. Crane makes two sets of LSX series lfiters. The original replacement lifter, and the new performance lifter. Both lifters have the pushrod seat in the factory location and therefore need no special pushrod. Here is a note from Mark Campbell , VP and director of Crane R&D.
Mark Writes! You start to get into oiling issues with basecircles around 1.43" and smaller. This usually translates into .630" valve lift with 1.7 rockers. This can change depending upon mfg. tolerances at the factory. In some cases, a person might be able to get to .650" valve lift without oil pressure problems, in other cases it might start at .620" lift. Our lifters bleed down faster than the stock lifters but aren"t technically "high bleed rate lifters" This terminology is determined by applying a giving force to the pushrod seat with a special testing fluid of very low viscosity. If the seat moves a givin distance (usually .080") in 10 seconds or less it is called"high bleed rate" if it moves that distance in the range of 11-100 seconds it is classified as standard bleed rate. Our lifters bleed at a close tolerance of 15-20 seconds. On the dyno, this gives them virtually the same idle vacuum and performance of a high bleed rate lifter, but keeps them quieter. We want quiet to minimize false knock issues! The performance and durability of our billet hydraulic roller lifters has been confirmed by years as the exclusive supplier to the best known line of High Performance marine engines used in off shore racing. Additionally, they are used in custom attack boats by the quick response units of our military. You wouldn't believe the spring pressures those guys are running with our hydraulic roller lifters and they MUST be reliable. It makes the LSx world look like a group of "wooses" Needless to say, we are extremely proud of our hydraulic roller lifters. Hope this helps!!
Mark Campbell
You are partially correct. Crane makes two sets of LSX series lfiters. The original replacement lifter, and the new performance lifter. Both lifters have the pushrod seat in the factory location and therefore need no special pushrod. Here is a note from Mark Campbell , VP and director of Crane R&D.
Mark Writes! You start to get into oiling issues with basecircles around 1.43" and smaller. This usually translates into .630" valve lift with 1.7 rockers. This can change depending upon mfg. tolerances at the factory. In some cases, a person might be able to get to .650" valve lift without oil pressure problems, in other cases it might start at .620" lift. Our lifters bleed down faster than the stock lifters but aren"t technically "high bleed rate lifters" This terminology is determined by applying a giving force to the pushrod seat with a special testing fluid of very low viscosity. If the seat moves a givin distance (usually .080") in 10 seconds or less it is called"high bleed rate" if it moves that distance in the range of 11-100 seconds it is classified as standard bleed rate. Our lifters bleed at a close tolerance of 15-20 seconds. On the dyno, this gives them virtually the same idle vacuum and performance of a high bleed rate lifter, but keeps them quieter. We want quiet to minimize false knock issues! The performance and durability of our billet hydraulic roller lifters has been confirmed by years as the exclusive supplier to the best known line of High Performance marine engines used in off shore racing. Additionally, they are used in custom attack boats by the quick response units of our military. You wouldn't believe the spring pressures those guys are running with our hydraulic roller lifters and they MUST be reliable. It makes the LSx world look like a group of "wooses" Needless to say, we are extremely proud of our hydraulic roller lifters. Hope this helps!!
Mark Campbell
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05-11-2005, 02:42 PM
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Damn, does anyone know what the base circle of an LSK lobe is? I have the 239 at .050" lobe. It has .651" lift. I wander if this is why I collapsed a lifter? Could definately be a posability.
05-11-2005, 03:54 PM
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if your have the heads off i would recomend changing the lifter cups. i know GM has updated this part on the LS2 motor. if a lifter turns sideways you end up with a big mess, don't ask me how i know 
05-11-2005, 07:59 PM
#10
Originally Posted by KGSloan
if your have the heads off i would recomend changing the lifter cups. i know GM has updated this part on the LS2 motor. if a lifter turns sideways you end up with a big mess, don't ask me how i know
05-11-2005, 08:00 PM
#11
That's good information. I wish I had known this when I was buying replacement lifters.
You are partially correct. Crane makes two sets of LSX series lfiters. The original replacement lifter, and the new performance lifter. Both lifters have the pushrod seat in the factory location and therefore need no special pushrod. Here is a note from Mark Campbell , VP and director of Crane R&D.
Mark Writes! You start to get into oiling issues with basecircles around 1.43" and smaller. This usually translates into .630" valve lift with 1.7 rockers. This can change depending upon mfg. tolerances at the factory. In some cases, a person might be able to get to .650" valve lift without oil pressure problems, in other cases it might start at .620" lift. Our lifters bleed down faster than the stock lifters but aren"t technically "high bleed rate lifters" This terminology is determined by applying a giving force to the pushrod seat with a special testing fluid of very low viscosity. If the seat moves a givin distance (usually .080") in 10 seconds or less it is called"high bleed rate" if it moves that distance in the range of 11-100 seconds it is classified as standard bleed rate. Our lifters bleed at a close tolerance of 15-20 seconds. On the dyno, this gives them virtually the same idle vacuum and performance of a high bleed rate lifter, but keeps them quieter. We want quiet to minimize false knock issues! The performance and durability of our billet hydraulic roller lifters has been confirmed by years as the exclusive supplier to the best known line of High Performance marine engines used in off shore racing. Additionally, they are used in custom attack boats by the quick response units of our military. You wouldn't believe the spring pressures those guys are running with our hydraulic roller lifters and they MUST be reliable. It makes the LSx world look like a group of "wooses" Needless to say, we are extremely proud of our hydraulic roller lifters. Hope this helps!!
Mark Campbell
Originally Posted by Roger Vinci
Originally Posted by Cal
I think Crane makes some longer lifters also. But then you need special short pushrods to work with them.
Mark Writes! You start to get into oiling issues with basecircles around 1.43" and smaller. This usually translates into .630" valve lift with 1.7 rockers. This can change depending upon mfg. tolerances at the factory. In some cases, a person might be able to get to .650" valve lift without oil pressure problems, in other cases it might start at .620" lift. Our lifters bleed down faster than the stock lifters but aren"t technically "high bleed rate lifters" This terminology is determined by applying a giving force to the pushrod seat with a special testing fluid of very low viscosity. If the seat moves a givin distance (usually .080") in 10 seconds or less it is called"high bleed rate" if it moves that distance in the range of 11-100 seconds it is classified as standard bleed rate. Our lifters bleed at a close tolerance of 15-20 seconds. On the dyno, this gives them virtually the same idle vacuum and performance of a high bleed rate lifter, but keeps them quieter. We want quiet to minimize false knock issues! The performance and durability of our billet hydraulic roller lifters has been confirmed by years as the exclusive supplier to the best known line of High Performance marine engines used in off shore racing. Additionally, they are used in custom attack boats by the quick response units of our military. You wouldn't believe the spring pressures those guys are running with our hydraulic roller lifters and they MUST be reliable. It makes the LSx world look like a group of "wooses" Needless to say, we are extremely proud of our hydraulic roller lifters. Hope this helps!!
Mark Campbell
