Pros and Cons of +4 On A Cam
05-11-2005, 12:50 PM
#1
Pros and Cons of +4 On A Cam Just bought a used Comp 224/228 581/588 114 thinking it had +4 advance ground in. Turns out it is ground straight up. Looking for real world experience pros and cons of running this vs a +4. A very knowlegable Comp rep said it will move the power up slightly in ther rpm band but I would probably not notice much difference if the cam had the +4. Car is an A4 with Lingenfelter S2 heads and all the bolt ons and with the converter pretty much stays between 5100 and 6500 at WOT.
05-11-2005, 02:42 PM
#3
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by TONY MAMO AFR
Mr. Z.....
It's all just a juggling act. There is NO "ICL" position that will give you the best of both worlds (a bunch of top end power as well as strong numbers down low). ICL is simply another way to tailor the power curve to your individual tastes or needs (is it a road race application, drag race application, etc.) It has similar effects of going with a slightly larger cam or going with a slightly smaller cam. When you do either/or, you are not going to gain power across the entire curve....you will just be adding to the bottom or adding to the top.
It's just another tool which allows you to fine tune the camshaft you hopefully carefully researched which will allow you to place an emphasis on a particular part of your engine's power band (slightly "maximizing" or enhancing that part of your power curve).
Drop in your cam straight up and you are assured to see more top end HP and the ability to carry your power further past peak HP....albiet at the expense of low and midrange torque. If you were building a road race car where you come out of the corners at 3500-4000, that might not be a wise choice.
On the flip side, pop 4' advance in it and the car will come out of a corner harder but will not "hang on" as well upstairs, especially past the RPM your peak HP is produced at....shifting promptly becomes alot more necessary.
It's all just a give and take, although if you look at a particular RPM range you are trying to enhance (say 4K - 7K), there will only be ONE installed position that will give you the highest avg. TQ and avg. HP if you were to add the two figures together.
Hope this info helps clarify a few things....
Tony M.
PS....One of the reasons my 224 cammed 346 makes such good numbers upstairs is the fact I installed it close to straight up. Giving up a little TQ on the bottom was worth it to me because I was more concerned with power from 5-7K (more interested in drag racing than road racing currently), and I was looking for as much peak HP as I could get, and the ability to carry past peak with the small cam installed....BUT, being obviously concerned with not giving up alot of TQ down low and in the middle. I had the opportunity to move the cam around on an engine dyno during the development of the 205 H/C package, allowing me to chose which ICL seemed to put up the best overall numbers.
It's all just a juggling act. There is NO "ICL" position that will give you the best of both worlds (a bunch of top end power as well as strong numbers down low). ICL is simply another way to tailor the power curve to your individual tastes or needs (is it a road race application, drag race application, etc.) It has similar effects of going with a slightly larger cam or going with a slightly smaller cam. When you do either/or, you are not going to gain power across the entire curve....you will just be adding to the bottom or adding to the top.
It's just another tool which allows you to fine tune the camshaft you hopefully carefully researched which will allow you to place an emphasis on a particular part of your engine's power band (slightly "maximizing" or enhancing that part of your power curve).
Drop in your cam straight up and you are assured to see more top end HP and the ability to carry your power further past peak HP....albiet at the expense of low and midrange torque. If you were building a road race car where you come out of the corners at 3500-4000, that might not be a wise choice.
On the flip side, pop 4' advance in it and the car will come out of a corner harder but will not "hang on" as well upstairs, especially past the RPM your peak HP is produced at....shifting promptly becomes alot more necessary.
It's all just a give and take, although if you look at a particular RPM range you are trying to enhance (say 4K - 7K), there will only be ONE installed position that will give you the highest avg. TQ and avg. HP if you were to add the two figures together.
Hope this info helps clarify a few things....
Tony M.
PS....One of the reasons my 224 cammed 346 makes such good numbers upstairs is the fact I installed it close to straight up. Giving up a little TQ on the bottom was worth it to me because I was more concerned with power from 5-7K (more interested in drag racing than road racing currently), and I was looking for as much peak HP as I could get, and the ability to carry past peak with the small cam installed....BUT, being obviously concerned with not giving up alot of TQ down low and in the middle. I had the opportunity to move the cam around on an engine dyno during the development of the 205 H/C package, allowing me to chose which ICL seemed to put up the best overall numbers.
05-11-2005, 03:43 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Greg Fell
Why not install it +4?
05-11-2005, 04:39 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
That was the initial inquiry I had. Why not run a 230 duration cam on a 108 lsa+0.
To step out of the norm and mainstream, and think "out of the box". basically innovation.
Question is : What keeps us US magnates from running ITBs and Sd tuning to achieve what the Aussies have allready done.
Our pride?
Is it to accept that they have achieved and surpassed us in our own tech???
Some will say "it is too expensive", yet we fork out 15+ grand on 427 strokers (that are not soo reliable untill recently "LS2").
Why do we have such difficulty admitting that there are other people besides us, using our tech and makin it better???
My personal limit is $$$ as it will take me longer to do it; but i will achieve it.
383, tight lsa straight up cam, ITBs, and SD tuning.
This is an ambition that has to become reality.
To step out of the norm and mainstream, and think "out of the box". basically innovation.
Question is : What keeps us US magnates from running ITBs and Sd tuning to achieve what the Aussies have allready done.
Our pride?
Is it to accept that they have achieved and surpassed us in our own tech???
Some will say "it is too expensive", yet we fork out 15+ grand on 427 strokers (that are not soo reliable untill recently "LS2").
Why do we have such difficulty admitting that there are other people besides us, using our tech and makin it better???
My personal limit is $$$ as it will take me longer to do it; but i will achieve it.
383, tight lsa straight up cam, ITBs, and SD tuning.
This is an ambition that has to become reality.
05-11-2005, 07:28 PM
#7
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Inspirational stuff there PREDATOR-Z. You're right about us OZZIES. We will try anything once. Ive seen a lot of weird-as stuff on our LS1s...
ugly-as home made over the radiator intakes that work (+3 mph and 2 tenths)
8TBs (ITBs for you Yanks)
Twin Turbos (fastest last week was 9.86s@141MPH)
Magnusson SCs (fastest 10.2s@13?MPH)
Stockers +bolt-ons only run 11.97s
The entry level cam over here is considered no LESS than 224. You're a girl if you go less. The std. size cam that most people run is anywhere from 230-240 pulling 120+mph at the track (cam and heads).
Cam only bolt-ons here are running 11.6s passes.
There's a saying being bandied around. 13s are gay, 12s are for girls, 11s are for real men.
A year ago it took spools and slicks to run a 12s pass bolt-on only. Now We have 2-tonne saloons running 12.8s@108MPH completely unopened and on stock rubber!
ugly-as home made over the radiator intakes that work (+3 mph and 2 tenths)
8TBs (ITBs for you Yanks)
Twin Turbos (fastest last week was 9.86s@141MPH)
Magnusson SCs (fastest 10.2s@13?MPH)
Stockers +bolt-ons only run 11.97s
The entry level cam over here is considered no LESS than 224. You're a girl if you go less. The std. size cam that most people run is anywhere from 230-240 pulling 120+mph at the track (cam and heads).
Cam only bolt-ons here are running 11.6s passes.
There's a saying being bandied around. 13s are gay, 12s are for girls, 11s are for real men.
A year ago it took spools and slicks to run a 12s pass bolt-on only. Now We have 2-tonne saloons running 12.8s@108MPH completely unopened and on stock rubber!
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05-11-2005, 07:55 PM
#8
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
That was the initial inquiry I had. Why not run a 230 duration cam on a 108 lsa+0.
