Cheapie TIG welder - more Chinese junk!
05-11-2005, 01:18 PM
#1
TECH Veteran
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hartsdale, NY
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheapie TIG welder - more Chinese junk! Is the $200 TIG from Harbor Freight worth the money or is it a waste? According to Diamond Jim, it is a great bargan - (See his narrative below)
Does anyone else own one that they could comment about?
THANKS!
**************************
Thread from Diamond Jim:
I recently bought a new welder for Harbor Freight. I had been hearing about this TIG welder they had for a couple of months, and I checked it out with the guys on various welding forums/newsgroups. Their opinions were that it was about the best thing to come out of China since, General Tso's Chicken.
I have a Lincoln Buzz Box (220v AC stick welder) and a Lincoln Mig. I already have gas regulator, and gas bottles for use with the Mig, so I am set for the new Tig. Now here is the best part, This Tig comes with an ARC welding holder also. You can TIG weld to 130 AMPS or ARC (stick) weld to 90 AMPS. Now before anyone shakes their head and says only 90 AMPS, they need to know that this is 90 AMPS DC not AC. With DC you get a lot better penetration and better welds on steel etc.
Harbor Freight has them on sale for $199.00. (Make sure you print the page off from their Internet site to get the sale price at one of their stores). A Lincoln AC stick welder will run you at least $220 plus. One with DC will be a heck of a lot more than that. The advantages of the Lincoln AC welder is that you can weld all day with it as it is a production type welder. As for the Mig welders, Migs are also more for production of a lot of welds. You can do anything with this Tig that a non-professional welder needs to do.
I used to take my Mig (the stick welder was too big) off-roading with a gas powered generator, just in case. Repair with the Mig in the wilderness were make-shift to say the least, as they were light and you had to keep adding layers. I tested out my new TIG using it as a DC stick welder, with the generator the other day. I used 1/8-in, 6011 rods on an old rusty boat trailer, that had been used in salt water, and the welds were some of the best I have done in a long time. This is what is going off-road from now on with me, as it is a really small unit, smaller than my Mig in size
It is fairly easy to learn to stick weld, Most guys turn up the power and burn away. As they get better the turn down the amps and refine their skill. With this Tig welder you can learn to stick weld as DC stick welding is a little easier, then later on you can get a regulator and some gas and weld aluminum etc.
__________________
Diamond Jim
98 Suburban, 5.7L, 2500LS, 4X4; 80 GMC 383, ½ ton Long bed; 74 Chevy dulie Flatbed 350; 73 Chevy Short bed 350 4X4; 41 Chevy Master Deluxe, 327/375hp Rochester FuelInj.
Does anyone else own one that they could comment about?
THANKS!
**************************
Thread from Diamond Jim:
I recently bought a new welder for Harbor Freight. I had been hearing about this TIG welder they had for a couple of months, and I checked it out with the guys on various welding forums/newsgroups. Their opinions were that it was about the best thing to come out of China since, General Tso's Chicken.
I have a Lincoln Buzz Box (220v AC stick welder) and a Lincoln Mig. I already have gas regulator, and gas bottles for use with the Mig, so I am set for the new Tig. Now here is the best part, This Tig comes with an ARC welding holder also. You can TIG weld to 130 AMPS or ARC (stick) weld to 90 AMPS. Now before anyone shakes their head and says only 90 AMPS, they need to know that this is 90 AMPS DC not AC. With DC you get a lot better penetration and better welds on steel etc.
Harbor Freight has them on sale for $199.00. (Make sure you print the page off from their Internet site to get the sale price at one of their stores). A Lincoln AC stick welder will run you at least $220 plus. One with DC will be a heck of a lot more than that. The advantages of the Lincoln AC welder is that you can weld all day with it as it is a production type welder. As for the Mig welders, Migs are also more for production of a lot of welds. You can do anything with this Tig that a non-professional welder needs to do.
I used to take my Mig (the stick welder was too big) off-roading with a gas powered generator, just in case. Repair with the Mig in the wilderness were make-shift to say the least, as they were light and you had to keep adding layers. I tested out my new TIG using it as a DC stick welder, with the generator the other day. I used 1/8-in, 6011 rods on an old rusty boat trailer, that had been used in salt water, and the welds were some of the best I have done in a long time. This is what is going off-road from now on with me, as it is a really small unit, smaller than my Mig in size
It is fairly easy to learn to stick weld, Most guys turn up the power and burn away. As they get better the turn down the amps and refine their skill. With this Tig welder you can learn to stick weld as DC stick welding is a little easier, then later on you can get a regulator and some gas and weld aluminum etc.
__________________
Diamond Jim
98 Suburban, 5.7L, 2500LS, 4X4; 80 GMC 383, ½ ton Long bed; 74 Chevy dulie Flatbed 350; 73 Chevy Short bed 350 4X4; 41 Chevy Master Deluxe, 327/375hp Rochester FuelInj.
05-12-2005, 01:22 PM
#2
TECH Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fat Chance Hotel
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No regulator, no AC, 35% duty cycle sounds low.
It might get by on small things. Looks like it won't keep up on the bigger projects. Also, without gas you won't be able to weld much using the TIG. Sounds like an overpriced stick welder to me.
It might get by on small things. Looks like it won't keep up on the bigger projects. Also, without gas you won't be able to weld much using the TIG. Sounds like an overpriced stick welder to me.
05-13-2005, 12:32 PM
#3
TECH Addict
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: hurst tx
Posts: 2,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thats not a bad deal it seems, just going to be interesteing how well it works for someothers
i may have to go get one, it would be nice to have a TIG at the house, just need to get a regulator, cant tig very effectivly without it
i may have to go get one, it would be nice to have a TIG at the house, just need to get a regulator, cant tig very effectivly without it
05-14-2005, 08:22 AM
#4
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by technical
No regulator, no AC, 35% duty cycle sounds low.
It might get by on small things. Looks like it won't keep up on the bigger projects. Also, without gas you won't be able to weld much using the TIG. Sounds like an overpriced stick welder to me.
It might get by on small things. Looks like it won't keep up on the bigger projects. Also, without gas you won't be able to weld much using the TIG. Sounds like an overpriced stick welder to me.
Now before anyone shakes their head and says only 90 AMPS, they need to know that this is 90 AMPS DC not AC. With DC you get a lot better penetration and better welds on steel etc
With this Tig welder ...... you can get a regulator and some gas and weld aluminum etc.
if that welder works good enough for field repairs until a permanent fix can be done, or tig welding some thin sheet metal and stick welding pretty thin steel with some smaller electrodes, then it may be worth the 200 dollars...
05-14-2005, 05:27 PM
#5
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been playing with mine for a little while now. It is doing a decent job. Of course it isn’t heavy duty, but I doubt I will build any nuke submarines with it. The area that it shines in is portability, as a stick welder. Its is way better than any 120v buzz box. I hooked it to a 50 foot, 8-gage extension cord, ran the carrying strap over my shoulder, putting the box on my hip, climbed a ladder and welded a broken wheel bracket back on a overhead hoist. Took just a few min. Heck it is a ½ day affair to get the hoist down and back up again.
I also used it repairing a trailer with a small generator supplying the power. I used E6011, ¼-inch rods, and they burned good, getting thorough penetration on ¼-inch channel. It might weld with 3/8-inch rods if needed, but heck you can weld just about anything with ¼-inch rods.
As for using shielding gas I use the same gas bottle/regulator/ and line that I use on my Lincoln MIG. The regulator etc. didn't come with the MIG either. I have also used the TIG to start the repair on the aluminum skeeg on the bottom of a 40hp Evenrude outboard. I tacked the replacement on with the TIG got everything straight, and then finished filling in the welds with the MIG.
This TIG is the same as light duty MIG's. Its for small projects, and hobby use. This TIG fits right in with my Ox/Act torch, my MIG and my big AC stick welder. Around here I may do some things as weld exhaust pipe, repair a trailer, riding mower, car body, boat motor, fab something out of stainless, make a heat exchanger for a boat motor, no telling whit I might do. This is an automotive forum; if you’re in a professional welding shop of course you need something bigger, and probably should be posting on a welding forum.
As for TIG’ing aluminum, I don’t understand what everyone thinks the problem is when using a TIG. You use a TIG to weld aluminum with good fitting joints, you use a MIG when you have to deposit a lot of metal when welding aluminum, or when doing production type work.
If you want some opinions from someone else go to sci.engr.joining.welding . But as I said at the start I ain’t building no dang nuke submarines.
Oh yeah there is one problem area. You want to make sure that it is plugged into a 30amp or higher 220v circuit. It will work on a 20amp 220v circuit but you occasionally may trip the circuit breaker when you plug the TIG in. What happens is the capacitors on the DC side charge up, and the surge is a little over 20amps, which I said might trip the circuit breaker. Once its plugged in there is no problem using it on a 20 amp circuit, as the DC capacitors stay charged until you unplug it. There is no danger of feed back from the capacitors as they are DC and the inverter will not let them feed back into the AC side. Also there is no surge when the switch is turned on/off on the welder.
I also used it repairing a trailer with a small generator supplying the power. I used E6011, ¼-inch rods, and they burned good, getting thorough penetration on ¼-inch channel. It might weld with 3/8-inch rods if needed, but heck you can weld just about anything with ¼-inch rods.
As for using shielding gas I use the same gas bottle/regulator/ and line that I use on my Lincoln MIG. The regulator etc. didn't come with the MIG either. I have also used the TIG to start the repair on the aluminum skeeg on the bottom of a 40hp Evenrude outboard. I tacked the replacement on with the TIG got everything straight, and then finished filling in the welds with the MIG.
This TIG is the same as light duty MIG's. Its for small projects, and hobby use. This TIG fits right in with my Ox/Act torch, my MIG and my big AC stick welder. Around here I may do some things as weld exhaust pipe, repair a trailer, riding mower, car body, boat motor, fab something out of stainless, make a heat exchanger for a boat motor, no telling whit I might do. This is an automotive forum; if you’re in a professional welding shop of course you need something bigger, and probably should be posting on a welding forum.
As for TIG’ing aluminum, I don’t understand what everyone thinks the problem is when using a TIG. You use a TIG to weld aluminum with good fitting joints, you use a MIG when you have to deposit a lot of metal when welding aluminum, or when doing production type work.
If you want some opinions from someone else go to sci.engr.joining.welding . But as I said at the start I ain’t building no dang nuke submarines.
Oh yeah there is one problem area. You want to make sure that it is plugged into a 30amp or higher 220v circuit. It will work on a 20amp 220v circuit but you occasionally may trip the circuit breaker when you plug the TIG in. What happens is the capacitors on the DC side charge up, and the surge is a little over 20amps, which I said might trip the circuit breaker. Once its plugged in there is no problem using it on a 20 amp circuit, as the DC capacitors stay charged until you unplug it. There is no danger of feed back from the capacitors as they are DC and the inverter will not let them feed back into the AC side. Also there is no surge when the switch is turned on/off on the welder.
05-14-2005, 05:49 PM
#6
TECH Addict
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: hurst tx
Posts: 2,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
since you have one I am going to ask you this question, could you use this to weld up things like radiators intercoolers etc? Im just wondering, cause Id buy it if I could weld up sheet aluminmum for like throttle body elbows, intercoolers, etc. Or is this not enough welder for that kind of duty?
Just wondering, figured youd know
thanks
ed
Just wondering, figured youd know
thanks
ed
05-14-2005, 07:36 PM
#7
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes you can, if you know what you are doing. But it is extremely difficult to read a book and teach yourself how to TIG weld. A person that can learn “how to” from reading a book could get the basics, but would still need several hours of hands on instructions from an expert welder to get started.
TIG welding is simple and hard at the same time. You use the TIG torch with one hand to strike and hold an arc to heat the item being welded. By varying the distance you hold the torch and the settings, you control the heat using the other hand to feed metal into the weld as needed. It’s a lot like an octopus trying to make love to a bagpipe, a lot of different things are going on at the same time.
Advantages of a TIG are the ability to control the heat over a wide range, almost like using a torch. A good welder can use a TIG to weld aluminum foil together. But TIG welding is not a production process. If you are doing a lot of welding (production) then you need a MIG. But then a MIG while good for welding sheet metal etc has problems when welding really thin sections of low melting metal.
This Harbor Freight TIG comes with collets for 1.2mm (3/64th inch), 1.6mm (1/16th inch) and 2.0mm (5/64th inch) tungsten electrodes. (It includes one 1.6mm electrode of some vague type, its best to just toss it and get some that you know what they are). It also comes with 2 each 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm, ceramic tips, (gas cups). You’re not going to be welding up the aluminum hull of an aluminum Armored Personnel Carrier with this TIG but it will do lighter work like most of us want to do around the home garage.
Most TIG’s have a foot switch to start and hold the arc. Release the foot switch and the arc stops. With this TIG you have to use a “touch and lift” or “scratch and lift” method to start the arc, similar to stick welding. Then you just lift the tungsten to stop the arc. There is a neat thumb **** to start and control the flow of gas. This is a DC unit so there is no high frequency amplifier to stabilize the arc, and make striking the arc easier, like is required for the operation of an AC unit.
TIG welding is simple and hard at the same time. You use the TIG torch with one hand to strike and hold an arc to heat the item being welded. By varying the distance you hold the torch and the settings, you control the heat using the other hand to feed metal into the weld as needed. It’s a lot like an octopus trying to make love to a bagpipe, a lot of different things are going on at the same time.
Advantages of a TIG are the ability to control the heat over a wide range, almost like using a torch. A good welder can use a TIG to weld aluminum foil together. But TIG welding is not a production process. If you are doing a lot of welding (production) then you need a MIG. But then a MIG while good for welding sheet metal etc has problems when welding really thin sections of low melting metal.
This Harbor Freight TIG comes with collets for 1.2mm (3/64th inch), 1.6mm (1/16th inch) and 2.0mm (5/64th inch) tungsten electrodes. (It includes one 1.6mm electrode of some vague type, its best to just toss it and get some that you know what they are). It also comes with 2 each 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm, ceramic tips, (gas cups). You’re not going to be welding up the aluminum hull of an aluminum Armored Personnel Carrier with this TIG but it will do lighter work like most of us want to do around the home garage.
Most TIG’s have a foot switch to start and hold the arc. Release the foot switch and the arc stops. With this TIG you have to use a “touch and lift” or “scratch and lift” method to start the arc, similar to stick welding. Then you just lift the tungsten to stop the arc. There is a neat thumb **** to start and control the flow of gas. This is a DC unit so there is no high frequency amplifier to stabilize the arc, and make striking the arc easier, like is required for the operation of an AC unit.
Trending Topics
05-14-2005, 10:07 PM
#8
TECH Addict
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: hurst tx
Posts: 2,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the thing I want to weld is sheet aluminmum, I have tried to do it with my MIG and the wire keeps getting cought in the hose that goes to the gun.
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
05-14-2005, 10:45 PM
#9
TECH Addict
Originally Posted by 69firebird
the thing I want to weld is sheet aluminmum, I have tried to do it with my MIG and the wire keeps getting cought in the hose that goes to the gun.
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
05-14-2005, 11:18 PM
#10
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tig welding aluminum is not what throws up red flags, tig welding aluminum with dc and the wrong shielding gas does.....not saying it can't be done, but for most people and for most applications it's not something that is going to give decent results, either strengthwise or appearance wise.....
05-14-2005, 11:23 PM
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 69firebird
the thing I want to weld is sheet aluminmum, I have tried to do it with my MIG and the wire keeps getting cought in the hose that goes to the gun.
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
I think this may be something that I could use, I just need to get 220 run out into the garage
05-15-2005, 09:37 PM
#12
TECH Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fat Chance Hotel
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jdustu
the "similar" setups from lincoln and miller are only 35% too......
For comparison, the Lincoln TIG 185 is 100%@90amps, but only 15%@185amps. Which means it will weld at 90 amps all day long. Something the aforementioned welder cannot.
05-16-2005, 09:23 AM
#13
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for the long post but...
I was going to ignore this, but then I decided that doing so would allow misinformation to be seen as being correct. First of all let me say that I visit this board to learn about the Gen III and IV engines. If I knew everything I wouldn’t be here. I also attempt to share my knowledge in certain areas with others. With that said, after I was medically retired on disability from the military I completed college and earned two degrees in engineering. One in Mechanical, and the other in Aerospace.
It’s true that the most common methods of TIG welding aluminum is using AC power. However the reason is money not because it is the only or the best way. AC TIG welders are reasonability priced, and with a high frequency amplifier they are easy to use, but above all are easy to train people to use. Alternating current (AC) switches back and forth between positive and negative polarity. Typical household current is 120v/60hz in the US. This means that it is 120 volts and 60 cycles per second. The 60 cycles per second is the rate that the current switches between positive and negative polarity.
DC-, which is also referred to as straight polarity, causes electrons to pass from the tungsten electrode to the positive work piece. (DC+ is opposite with the electrons moving in the other direction). DC- is used for carbon, stainless, and nickel steels, also titanium, copper and copper alloys. Aluminum is welded by AC or by DC+. (See table 2).
When welding aluminum, oxides build up on the surface and in effect form a film or barrier. If you gas weld aluminum (yes it can be done) flux is used to brake up the oxides. In TIG or MIG welding of aluminum positive current breaks up these oxides. That’s right positive current! As AC current switches between positive and negative current, ½ of the time the current is positive breaks up these oxides and as the switch from positive to negative is so fast it keeps them for re-forming. With straight DC positive electrode you don’t have this problem with oxides at all.
So why use AC at all if DC works so well? The main reason is money. Training and skill cost money. The more training need to achieve higher skill cost more money. A worker with higher skill requires more pay to keep him. To maintain stability of the ARC when the positive cycle is upset by surface oxides the AC TIG requires that a high frequency amplifier be used. (High frequency is not needed to AC TIG steels, but is usually used to start the ARC). Generally higher currents (more power) levels can be achieved using AC TIG, so again its money. Welding thick items can often be done quicker (remember time is money) using higher currents.
What are the advantages of DC+.The more positive electrons that are used the cleaner the metal will be when welding aluminum or magnesium, which is why on certain critical type applications DC+ (all positive electrons) is specified. Generally when using an AC TIG more heat is generated inside the torch than with DC at the same current levels. (This heat is the results of the ½ cycle of DC-) This requires shorter welding periods or more cooling of the AC torch. Also DC+ can be used to weld much thinner pieces (foil) than AC can.
That’s it! Its like small blocks and big blocks, one is not necessarily better than the other, they are just different. AC is not better than DC for welding aluminum. It doesn’t do a better job; it is just cheaper to train a newbe to use.
As far as the statement by jdustu that was made that it can't be done and I was using the wrong gas, maybe it is for him. I find it amazing that someone could make this statement when I never said what gas I use. I guess in their (limited?) experience they have only seen a certain type of gas used with a MIG or whatever. But to set the record straight, I use CO2 for plain carbon steels (because its the cheapest) Argon/CO2 (75/25) for other/stainless steels, and 100% Argon for everything else.
If something isn'r clear ask.
TABLE 2
I was going to ignore this, but then I decided that doing so would allow misinformation to be seen as being correct. First of all let me say that I visit this board to learn about the Gen III and IV engines. If I knew everything I wouldn’t be here. I also attempt to share my knowledge in certain areas with others. With that said, after I was medically retired on disability from the military I completed college and earned two degrees in engineering. One in Mechanical, and the other in Aerospace.
It’s true that the most common methods of TIG welding aluminum is using AC power. However the reason is money not because it is the only or the best way. AC TIG welders are reasonability priced, and with a high frequency amplifier they are easy to use, but above all are easy to train people to use. Alternating current (AC) switches back and forth between positive and negative polarity. Typical household current is 120v/60hz in the US. This means that it is 120 volts and 60 cycles per second. The 60 cycles per second is the rate that the current switches between positive and negative polarity.
DC-, which is also referred to as straight polarity, causes electrons to pass from the tungsten electrode to the positive work piece. (DC+ is opposite with the electrons moving in the other direction). DC- is used for carbon, stainless, and nickel steels, also titanium, copper and copper alloys. Aluminum is welded by AC or by DC+. (See table 2).
When welding aluminum, oxides build up on the surface and in effect form a film or barrier. If you gas weld aluminum (yes it can be done) flux is used to brake up the oxides. In TIG or MIG welding of aluminum positive current breaks up these oxides. That’s right positive current! As AC current switches between positive and negative current, ½ of the time the current is positive breaks up these oxides and as the switch from positive to negative is so fast it keeps them for re-forming. With straight DC positive electrode you don’t have this problem with oxides at all.
So why use AC at all if DC works so well? The main reason is money. Training and skill cost money. The more training need to achieve higher skill cost more money. A worker with higher skill requires more pay to keep him. To maintain stability of the ARC when the positive cycle is upset by surface oxides the AC TIG requires that a high frequency amplifier be used. (High frequency is not needed to AC TIG steels, but is usually used to start the ARC). Generally higher currents (more power) levels can be achieved using AC TIG, so again its money. Welding thick items can often be done quicker (remember time is money) using higher currents.
What are the advantages of DC+.The more positive electrons that are used the cleaner the metal will be when welding aluminum or magnesium, which is why on certain critical type applications DC+ (all positive electrons) is specified. Generally when using an AC TIG more heat is generated inside the torch than with DC at the same current levels. (This heat is the results of the ½ cycle of DC-) This requires shorter welding periods or more cooling of the AC torch. Also DC+ can be used to weld much thinner pieces (foil) than AC can.
That’s it! Its like small blocks and big blocks, one is not necessarily better than the other, they are just different. AC is not better than DC for welding aluminum. It doesn’t do a better job; it is just cheaper to train a newbe to use.
As far as the statement by jdustu that was made that it can't be done and I was using the wrong gas, maybe it is for him. I find it amazing that someone could make this statement when I never said what gas I use. I guess in their (limited?) experience they have only seen a certain type of gas used with a MIG or whatever. But to set the record straight, I use CO2 for plain carbon steels (because its the cheapest) Argon/CO2 (75/25) for other/stainless steels, and 100% Argon for everything else.
If something isn'r clear ask.
TABLE 2
05-16-2005, 12:24 PM
#14
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as the statement by jdustu that was made that it can't be done and I was using the wrong gas, maybe it is for him. I find it amazing that someone could make this statement when I never said what gas I use. I guess in their (limited?) experience they have only seen a certain type of gas used with a MIG or whatever. But to set the record straight, I use CO2 for plain carbon steels (because its the cheapest) Argon/CO2 (75/25) for other/stainless steels, and 100% Argon for everything else.
tig welding aluminum is not what throws up red flags, tig welding aluminum with dc and the wrong shielding gas does.....not saying it can't be done, but for most people and for most applications it's not something that is going to give decent results, either strengthwise or appearance wise.....
-josh
05-16-2005, 02:00 PM
#15
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There you go asuming and guessing again.
Of course people on this board probably don't have professional welding skills. But what do you think they are going to weld thats aluminum? Build a car hauler? Most likely they will be repairing a radiator, AC line, condensor or something light. If they build something it probably going to be an intercooler, hood scoop, or something light. Maybe a few will try to weld a striped bolt hole in aluminum heads, but not if they have any doubts about their skill level.
A Harbor Frieght DC TIG/ARC Welder, for $199.00 is a lot of welder for a home garage, and the limited use it will get. Of course if you were doing this for a living you would get a bigger and better unit. The same applies to a MIG. A home garage can get by with an inexpensive 110V unit. But a 110V unit doesn't really have a place in a prefessional shop, there you would use a 220V unit with all the extras, such as a spool gun, etc.
Of course people on this board probably don't have professional welding skills. But what do you think they are going to weld thats aluminum? Build a car hauler? Most likely they will be repairing a radiator, AC line, condensor or something light. If they build something it probably going to be an intercooler, hood scoop, or something light. Maybe a few will try to weld a striped bolt hole in aluminum heads, but not if they have any doubts about their skill level.
A Harbor Frieght DC TIG/ARC Welder, for $199.00 is a lot of welder for a home garage, and the limited use it will get. Of course if you were doing this for a living you would get a bigger and better unit. The same applies to a MIG. A home garage can get by with an inexpensive 110V unit. But a 110V unit doesn't really have a place in a prefessional shop, there you would use a 220V unit with all the extras, such as a spool gun, etc.
05-16-2005, 02:11 PM
#16
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Diamond Jim
There you go asuming and guessing again.
Of course people on this board probably don't have professional welding skills. But what do you think they are going to weld thats aluminum? Build a car hauler? Most likely they will be repairing a radiator, AC line, condensor or something light. If they build something it probably going to be an intercooler, hood scoop, or something light. Maybe a few will try to weld a striped bolt hole in aluminum heads, but not if they have any doubts about their skill level.
Of course people on this board probably don't have professional welding skills. But what do you think they are going to weld thats aluminum? Build a car hauler? Most likely they will be repairing a radiator, AC line, condensor or something light. If they build something it probably going to be an intercooler, hood scoop, or something light. Maybe a few will try to weld a striped bolt hole in aluminum heads, but not if they have any doubts about their skill level.
aluminum with dc is not possible whatsoever, which is not what i said).....
that being said, i don't care what they are repairing, welding aluminum takes some amount of skill/experience and is much tougher to make turn out nice(or turn out at all) with d/c than a/c for someone without much of said experience.....
......there is a difference between assumption and educated guesses....from the overall feedback on this site, and in this section specifically, it would stand to reason that there aren't a whole lot of guys comfortable with aluminum welding......i'm sure now there will be the"oh, yeah, i can weld aluminum" posts, and i'm sure you can....in which case it wasn't directed at you, buy the welder and have at it.....
05-16-2005, 03:25 PM
#17
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 12,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys, the bickering and chest thumping isn't doing much. I'm truly interested in this, as I'm in the market right now for a tig. I have used my little Lincoln 100A/110V mig for a couple years, and I'm to the point I really need a tig. Dragging things to friends to have welded when I could do it at home is getting old.
I'm more interested in hearing WHY a certain welder is desirable, why its not, etc. I am new to tig, so I'd like to hear more about the function of each mode (AC vs. DC, DCEP vs DCEN, etc.). I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of a transformer model versus an inverter. What justifies the greater cost of a higher dollar unit over the 200 dollar harbor freight box?
Most of us are looking to use these boxes in our home garages. But, you might be surprised what our folks have built.
I'm more interested in hearing WHY a certain welder is desirable, why its not, etc. I am new to tig, so I'd like to hear more about the function of each mode (AC vs. DC, DCEP vs DCEN, etc.). I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of a transformer model versus an inverter. What justifies the greater cost of a higher dollar unit over the 200 dollar harbor freight box?
Most of us are looking to use these boxes in our home garages. But, you might be surprised what our folks have built.
05-16-2005, 04:50 PM
#18
Staging Lane
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plain and simple the reason I think a DC TIG is best for home use is the fact that you can weld thinner (lower heat) with DC than you can with AC. Its easier to make perfect looking welds with AC than a begainner can do with DC, but then a home shop isn't paying the help by the hour, so you can always take your time and grind your welds to make them look better. If you just have a MIG then this unit will let you do some stick welding also.
What the heck this is a hobby. The main thing a hobby is to do is burn time doing something enjoyable. If it isn't enjoyable its called WORK!
What the heck this is a hobby. The main thing a hobby is to do is burn time doing something enjoyable. If it isn't enjoyable its called WORK!
05-17-2005, 08:37 AM
#19
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: detroit rock city
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Brains
Guys, the bickering and chest thumping isn't doing much. I'm truly interested in this, as I'm in the market right now for a tig. I have used my little Lincoln 100A/110V mig for a couple years, and I'm to the point I really need a tig. Dragging things to friends to have welded when I could do it at home is getting old.
I'm more interested in hearing WHY a certain welder is desirable, why its not, etc. I am new to tig, so I'd like to hear more about the function of each mode (AC vs. DC, DCEP vs DCEN, etc.). I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of a transformer model versus an inverter. What justifies the greater cost of a higher dollar unit over the 200 dollar harbor freight box?
Most of us are looking to use these boxes in our home garages. But, you might be surprised what our folks have built.
I'm more interested in hearing WHY a certain welder is desirable, why its not, etc. I am new to tig, so I'd like to hear more about the function of each mode (AC vs. DC, DCEP vs DCEN, etc.). I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of a transformer model versus an inverter. What justifies the greater cost of a higher dollar unit over the 200 dollar harbor freight box?
Most of us are looking to use these boxes in our home garages. But, you might be surprised what our folks have built.
if you have more time and patience than money and aren't looking for a work of art, then give dc a shot......a big bonus with ac is that you get both cleaning and penetration, but with dc neg or dc pos you'll get a lot of one and little of the other......ac square wave welding takes aluminum welding to an even higher place, once you get the settings down to where they work for you.....
i would be interested in seeing more than one review on the harbor freight model, and even some pics of some welds would be cool.....
05-17-2005, 09:43 AM
#20
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 12,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO I've gone beyond "hobby" status.. I don't do it to burn time, instead I work to fund the sickness 
There is nothing I won't do myself, unless I don't have the tools. Then, its a decision on whether or not I want to drop the change for the tool, and usually that decision points to bigger tool boxes.. Basically the only thing I am not equipped to accomplish in my home garage is engine block machining.
So I don't give a hoot if something is "good enough for the home user" or other bull. I'm looking for the unit that fits the needs of the materials I'm looking to join together. I'm not cobbling together some artsy fartsy metal work to dump at a flea market, I'm building cars and I need the proper tools. Its irrelevant that it happens to be in my garage at the house and not a contracted fab shop. Heck for that matter, I can stick metal together with my little wire feed and grind it for best appearance when necessary, but its still not the proper tool for EVERY application.
There's a learning curve for EVERY style of welding, but if people (myself included) want to spend that time, its up to us. It would really tick me off if I went on someone's recommendation to buy the wrong unit because it was "good enough for the home hobbyist." Would you assemble a daily-driver reliable turbo setup with a $200 Harbor Freight TIG?
There is nothing I won't do myself, unless I don't have the tools. Then, its a decision on whether or not I want to drop the change for the tool, and usually that decision points to bigger tool boxes.. Basically the only thing I am not equipped to accomplish in my home garage is engine block machining.So I don't give a hoot if something is "good enough for the home user" or other bull. I'm looking for the unit that fits the needs of the materials I'm looking to join together. I'm not cobbling together some artsy fartsy metal work to dump at a flea market, I'm building cars and I need the proper tools. Its irrelevant that it happens to be in my garage at the house and not a contracted fab shop. Heck for that matter, I can stick metal together with my little wire feed and grind it for best appearance when necessary, but its still not the proper tool for EVERY application.
There's a learning curve for EVERY style of welding, but if people (myself included) want to spend that time, its up to us. It would really tick me off if I went on someone's recommendation to buy the wrong unit because it was "good enough for the home hobbyist." Would you assemble a daily-driver reliable turbo setup with a $200 Harbor Freight TIG?